Some Comments on "Troublesome Minds" (Possible Spoilers)

[Supervisor 194]

I agree Culp is the wrong age, but I was trying to put myself in the mindset of a 1969-1970 casting director adapting the role--I don't know if they would have let Berlis be that young given his fate. Jack Wild is a great choice, though.

Another question: when writing do you 'hear' actors' voices for the lead characters (or imagine actors for the guest characters)?

I hope you plan to visit TOS again soon.

 

[DaveGalanter]

^Yeah, my guess is the ending would have been somewhat different in 1970.

Yeah, I do hear the voices or see the actors in my head. And because I was working on Star Trek: Phase II last summer, often it became a mix of the original actors and the P2 actors depending on the scene.

Thanks again for your kind thoughts.

 

[seigezunt]

Just finished, and I really enjoyed it.

I'm pretty much just a TOS fan these days, and was overjoyed to see a new TOS novel that really captures the characters so well.

I had a very hard time picturing Gerlis and his people, the image kept coming out a little comical in my head.

But the author nailed the Big Three, and kept the story interesting. I was really appreciative that things weren't all neatly tied up at the end, and that felt honest to the show.

it was refreshing to read a ST novel that was more than space opera, and really had some elements that made you think.

One of the more enjoyable Trek novels that I've read.

 

[DaveGalanter]

^Berlis, not Gerlis.

I'm glad you enjoyed it! My brother kept referring to Berlis as "Troublesome Bird" or "Alpha Bird," so picture him as you please.

Someone actually did some fan art which blew me away (just that it was done):

http://halfwest.deviantart.com/art/Troublesome-Minds-124404596

 

[Possum]

I've read this one recently- in fact it was the first new, not used bookstore, TOS book I've read for probably 20 years.

I also loved the characterization of the main three plus all the little Enterprise touches. I hadn't watched any of the TOS for a long time before reading this and I liked the details such as Spock over at the library computer flipping the toggle switches. Reminded me of how the old series was before our technology blew it away. I've since started rewatching TOS. I'll have to give it a re-read. It totally felt like an episode.

 

[Jbarney]

Finally going to be able to start it. Will sit down tonight and read a chapter or two. Been looking forward to this one.

 

[seigezunt]

Someone actually did some fan art which blew me away (just that it was done):

http://halfwest.deviantart.com/art/Troublesome-Minds-124404596

For some reason, this guy kept popping into my head:

But my imagination does that. Like I keep imagining McCoy's rival in Shadows on the Sun looks like Robert Conrad. I will get an image stuck in my head quite contrary to the descriptions sometimes, and you left the descriptions subtle enough that I kept filling in random stuff.

 

[Jbarney]

Okay, finished it this afternoon, well worth reading. Oddly, I have to say I had the exact same reaction as a previous poster did to the first 45 pages of the book. I didn't think the transitions between locations were particularly fleshed out, but that is only a minor complaint.

The book is well worth reading and as a stand alone novel it really works well. I liked the Isitri as a race. Just in the process of moving out into space, their local history with the Odib seemed logical and tragic. That the Odib would be so motivated to make sure another Troublesome Mind didn't come to power was very believable and well written. I enjoyed Berlis a lot. I thought the descriptions of the characters motivations and affect on others was really well done. The ending was just perfect. It is a nice reminder that not all events in life have happy endings.

A couple questions as I am thinking back over the time I spent reading this.....

1. What were the events that lead to Berlis being in the clutches of the gas giant at the begining of the novel? This may have been discussed, but as I am thinking back, I can't remember. Wouldn't he have been able to assert control over any Isitri ships coming after him? Not in an evil way, just because he could?

2. Wouldn't the same type circumstance be similiar for the Odib ships entering the Isitri system? I think this is a little easier to rationalize as I'm sure Berlis would not have wanted to put himself in danger, and as discussed in the book distances did tend to diminish his ability to control/influence others. I suppose being a different species all together would have made his mind control over them a little more difficult. Again, wasn't that the reason for the Odib insisting he be destroyed though?

3. Was there any thought to including Betazed as a planet that Berlis might influence? There were a couple of discussions during the book about him possibly gaining knowledge about Vulcan and attempting to assert his mind control ability over them. I am just wondering about other telepathic people in the 2260s that would have had negative situations if they came in contact with someone like Berlis.

By the way, I also saw in a previous post they wanted to put the face of the new Spock on the cover, and I don't think that would have worked. Anything about Vulcan or Vulcans in the book would've needed to be edited out, along with the couple of FYM references. I think leaving old Spock and the current references was a good decision.

A very good read.....

 

[BrotherBenny]

It was a Spock-centric story, hence the references to Vulcan falling to Berlis...and is Betazed even known to Starfleet/Federation people yet?

 

[Jbarney]

Memory Beta says Betazed joined the UFP in the 2270s.....

 

[Christopher]

Memory Beta says Betazed joined the UFP in the 2270s.....

I don't know what that's based on. Canonically, there's no evidence I can recall to suggest that Betazed was known in the TOS era.

 

[JD]

I just looked Deanna up on Memory Alpha, and it says Kestra was born 2330, so we know that the Federation had to have encountered them probably in at least the late 2320s.

 

[William Leisner]

Memory Beta says Betazed joined the UFP in the 2270s.....

I don't know what that's based on.

It's from Star Charts.

What Star Charts based it on, who knows?

 

[Jbarney]

My main point in bringing Betazed up though was in wondering if Belris could have become aware of other telepathic species through his access to Spock's mind. There was certainly the concern about Vulcan portrayed in the novel. With that level of interaction with Spock's mind..... information about other telepath's could have been available.

 

[DaveGalanter]

Thanks for your kind and constructive comments!

To answer what I can....

1. What were the events that lead to Berlis being in the clutches of the gas giant at the begining of the novel? This may have been discussed, but as I am thinking back, I can't remember. Wouldn't he have been able to assert control over any Isitri ships coming after him? Not in an evil way, just because he could?

I didn't mention it specifically, because I never think it necessary to mention everything, but the reason he was there is they couldn't get close enough to take him out fully, because he WOULD control them, so they had to use long distance/less accurate weapons which disabled him and the gas giant pulled him in where he would be ended. Had he not sent a distress call which...

2. Wouldn't the same type circumstance be similiar for the Odib ships entering the Isitri system? I think this is a little easier to rationalize as I'm sure Berlis would not have wanted to put himself in danger, and as discussed in the book distances did tend to diminish his ability to control/influence others. I suppose being a different species all together would have made his mind control over them a little more difficult. Again, wasn't that the reason for the Odib insisting he be destroyed though?

Berlis has ZERO control over the Odib. None. If he did, Sa's death wouldn't have been necessary. Berlis didn't have control over Kirk, either. Merely a pleasent aura--and even that was negated once Kirk understood it better. The Odib, well aware of the risk, didn't even have that from a Troublesome Mind. They were frightended by one.

3. Was there any thought to including Betazed as a planet that Berlis might influence? There were a couple of discussions during the book about him possibly gaining knowledge about Vulcan and attempting to assert his mind control ability over them. I am just wondering about other telepathic people in the 2260s that would have had negative situations if they came in contact with someone like Berlis.

Nope, I'd not thought about Betazed. Only reason Berlis thought of Vulcan is because Spock fascinated him. Only reason Kirk and Spock were concerned about it was because Vulcans HAVE demonstrated the ability to--on some level--communicate telepathically over great distances (the Intrepid in "Immunity Syndrome"). And Berlis actually said he'd like to visit Vulcan or something like that, if memory serves. He alluded to it.

A very good read.....

YAY!

And to jbarney:

My main point in bringing Betazed up though was in wondering if Belris could have become aware of other telepathic species through his access to Spock's mind. There was certainly the concern about Vulcan portrayed in the novel. With that level of interaction with Spock's mind..... information about other telepath's could have been available.

Berlis wasn't looking to take over planets with his mind. Berlis was merely interested in Spock and so interested in other Vulcans. For Berlis, the experience of such an intimate telepathy as Spock offered was exciting. Remember, Berlis doesn't really KNOW what he's doing. From his perspective, he touches the minds of those around him and they all seem to think as he does, and have the same wishes/whims as he. Spock's meld is more invasive and he got a taste of Spock's wishes/whims too. That was new to him. Like never having tasted anything sweet your entire life and then someone introduces you to chocolate. THAT is why Berlis missed Spock.

The book is about lonliness. Berlis, by his nature, suffers from a lonliness because he envelops those around him with his will. Touching the minds of millions, he craves more because no matter how many minds he touches he still has a vague sense that he is lonely. His nature has messed him up in this way. As much as Berlis would never want to hurt anyone, he feels he must protect himself from someone who would keep him from being in touch with his people.

Meshu has a similar nature and also cannot bear to be alone. And yet has the moral understanding to keep herself exiled, and so forever lonely. She will take what little companionship she can from the primatives who love (or perhaps just "love") her.

Spock, like Meshu, has a self-imposed exile of lonliness because he is at odds with himself. Like both troublesome minds, he has a craving. Like Meshu, he can't, because of his code of values, give into it. Like Berlis, because of his nature as an emotional being, he very much wants to.

Three beings, trapped in the tragedy of their natures, and the choices they make to either embrace... or reject... or struggle with those natures.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

It was a Spock-centric story, hence the references to Vulcan falling to Berlis...and is Betazed even known to Starfleet/Federation people yet?

The earliest appearance (in terms of internal chronology) of a Betazoid that I am familiar with was in "The Last Roundup". There, it was hinted that they had only recently joined the Federation, and that their telepathy was still something of a novelty to most people. That is, I'm assuming "Parkan", President Ra-Ghoratreii's telepath, is Betazoid. The name certainly sounds Betazoid. A human officer mentioned how his people have a proven ability to pick up on other beings' thoughts and feelings, including the truth of their motivations. Evidently, the concept is new and of interest to her. As mentioned, "Star Charts" places Betazed membership in the 2270s, but "Star Charts" is not always consistant in its planetary profiles with the novels. My personal position on Betazed contact would put it in the 2280s. Betazed seems reasonably well-known as of the 2310s-2320s, given references in "The Art of the Impossible" and "Well of Souls".

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Well, I've just finished the book. It arrived at my local bookstore this morning, and I've spent the last few hours reading it. It was very enjoyable, and certainly thought-provoking: a well-crafted morality exercise. Although this is simply parroting earlier comments, I appreciated how the author did not attempt to tie up every loose end or offer an easy conclusion. As is probably well known to frequent posters by now, I'm a big, big fan of continuity and overarching stories. That said, it is indeed refreshing to occasionally be given a story like "Troublesome Minds" that stands alone and works well outside of a continuing series. This book was light relief, which is certainly not to suggest it was simplistic, instead that it was a story hinging more on abstract ideas than plot, politics or character (although all of these were utilized well). In fact, the experience of reading this book put me in mind of a comment from one of the Isitri themselves, about how everything is mental with them. This story is being retained in my mind more as a loose but fascinating experience than as a story, different from how I usually experience fiction. This book was a very smooth, very, very easy reading experience, which again is not a suggestion of inferiority, simply a different experience from usual. While I find most Star Trek books thought provoking- one of the reasons I love them so much- this story elevated that particular ingredient to the fore, as said overshadowing other aspects to give the story a more abstract quality (the lack of continuity references helped here). The book is therefore sticking in my mind in a somewhat unique manner. Not the usual Star Trek reading experience, then, but certainly not an inferior one. A pleasing novel.

I trust this makes sense. I can at times get unhelpfully abstract and vague when describing my thoughts to others...

 

[Jbarney]

Well, I've just finished the book. It arrived at my local bookstore this morning, and I've spent the last few hours reading it. It was very enjoyable, and certainly thought-provoking: a well-crafted morality exercise. Although this is simply parroting earlier comments, I appreciated how the author did not attempt to tie up every loose end or offer an easy conclusion. As is probably well known to frequent posters by now, I'm a big, big fan of continuity and overarching stories. That said, it is indeed refreshing to occasionally be given a story like "Troublesome Minds" that stands alone and works well outside of a continuing series. This book was light relief, which is certainly not to suggest it was simplistic, instead that it was a story hinging more on abstract ideas than plot, politics or character (although all of these were utilized well). In fact, the experience of reading this book put me in mind of a comment from one of the Isitri themselves, about how everything is mental with them. This story is being retained in my mind more as a loose but fascinating experience than as a story, different from how I usually experience fiction. This book was a very smooth, very, very easy reading experience, which again is not a suggestion of inferiority, simply a different experience from usual. While I find most Star Trek books thought provoking- one of the reasons I love them so much- this story elevated that particular ingredient to the fore, as said overshadowing other aspects to give the story a more abstract quality (the lack of continuity references helped here). The book is therefore sticking in my mind in a somewhat unique manner. Not the usual Star Trek reading experience, then, but certainly not an inferior one. A pleasing novel.

I trust this makes sense. I can at times get unhelpfully abstract and vague when describing my thoughts to others...

I don't think you have to worry about it. What you wrote comes across fine. And your comments come bring up one question....which I don't think has been asked....

Were there any references to other books from the FYM snuck in Troublesome Minds? I don't think so, but I did like some of the smaller crew members like Palmer being mentioned.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Were there any references to other books from the FYM snuck in Troublesome Minds? I don't think so, but I did like some of the smaller crew members like Palmer being mentioned.

No references that I recall, and I'm very good at this, if I say so myself (being obsessive is useful!). Of course, "Troublesome Minds" didn't need any. I enjoy the occasional self-contained story (without the multiple continuity references I'm usually eager for), as long as the story being told works without them. Indeed, there was no need for this story to reference others to work satisfactorily, and its tight focus in fact aided the impact of this particular experience. Lonliness, that key theme of this novel, was communicated all the more powerfully for the isolation of the story (references to the Organia incident and implicit motivations for Spock's seeking Kolinahr being the only real links to Trek's bigger picture). It was a perfectly contained tale. It's stories that do not reference other stories when links are clearly apparent or useful to the tale at hand that I personally dislike. There's a difference in my discriminating eyes (and this is solely my personal, subjective interpretation, nothing more) between a story that ignores the wider Trek lit universe and one that simply works on its own without the need to connect to it.

 

[Reanok]

I just started this book yesterday and as others have said this is an excellent look into Spock and is really well written.I think Berlis doesn't realize the powerful hold he hold he has on Spock and the others he's controlling.The sense of lonliness and alienation is well done in the latest chapter I finished.