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So, was Cochrane's warp drive concept something special, or wasn't it ?

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Court martial is a purely military term. There is no such thing as a "civilian court martial." It can only exist in a military setting. Also Starfleet has a Judge Advocate General, even on TNG. Such a position does not exist outside of the military.

But language erodes. And the civilian world has Surgeon General, say.

Ro Laren was sentenced to a Starfleet stockade (which is another exclusively military term), Michael Eddington and Quark's cousin Gaila were serving their sentences on Starfleet starbases, Arik Soong was in a Starflert prison facility.

Indeed, we should rather ask whether there's such a thing as a civilian jail. Supposedly, civilian criminals get cured, in colonies not referred to as jails. They aren't even considered punitive, whereas Starfleet imprisonment is always about freedom-deprivation torture.

Since the MACOs are Earth's genuine military that admits it's military, one really has to wonder why they aren't handling the duty that's always a military's, and why that job is being handled by the "explorers" instead.

We see so little of the goings-on of the day that we can't really argue Starfleet's "explorers" would be handling any particular job at all. Archer is doing stuff, but he's an exception to every rule. What is Hernandez doing?

For what other reason is a ship going to be designed "for combat?"

For humorous purposes, apparently. What Tom said to Harry was but a joke.

But also worth tossing in, we've seen Starfleet captains and admirals officiating weddings. Military officers are the only people aside from religious officials and Justices of the Peace who can do that.

They can't, really, except in Star Trek. And perhaps not even there, except it so happens that most officers go for the Justice of Peace Proficiency Test and Exam anyway.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Court martial is a purely military term. There is no such thing as a "civilian court martial." It can only exist in a military setting. Also Starfleet has a Judge Advocate General, even on TNG. Such a position does not exist outside of the military.

Ro Laren was sentenced to a Starfleet stockade (which is another exclusively military term), Michael Eddington and Quark's cousin Gaila were serving their sentences on Starfleet starbases, Arik Soong was in a Starflert prison facility.

Actually the MACOs were more advanced than Starfleet (Archer says so in Harbinger) and it would not have been any more effort to transport them to Vulcan to handle the embassy security. Since the MACOs are Earth's genuine military that admits it's military, one really has to wonder why they aren't handling the duty that's always a military's, and why that job is being handled by the "explorers" instead.

For what other reason is a ship going to be designed "for combat?"

While watching TOS, especially season 1 it is very clear the writers were basing Starfleet on the US Navy, to the extent it can reasonably be called the Navy in Space. The references to it being non-military in the other shows come from Roddenberry suddenly feeling military to be a dirty word in his later years, and then for some reason Berman and now Abrams are sticking to that, despite the fact most of Roddenberry's other sacred cows have since been done away with.

But also worth tossing in, we've seen Starfleet captains and admirals officiating weddings. Military officers are the only people aside from religious officials and Justices of the Peace who can do that.

I think the problem is that there are strong elements of both. There are the trappings of the military (command structure, regulations, use as an army in times of war), but it also isn't their main job. Also, when Picard says that Starfleet isn't a military in that TNG show, he's clearly not giving his opinion, but stating a fact. If Starfleet was a real military, the statement wouldn't make sense and the Zabrak advisor would remind him that he's working for a military. (Had Picard says something like: "This ship is designed for exploration and military missions are not part of our current assignment," then there would be a case.)

I think, at the end of the day, Starfleet is something that has no real world analogue in todays world, since we know for a fact (from actual statements from Starfleet officers that are not opinions) that they're not military, but they do share some of the traditions and will act as such in times of emergencies. So, it's not a military, or another non-military organization, it's a Starfleet organization.
 
This is starting to feel a bit like splitting imaginary hairs tbh.

What exactly is the question people are trying to decide here? What exactly is the definition we are using for "military"?

From wikipedia, this;

The military, also called the armed forces, are forces authorized to usedeadly force, and weapons, to support the interests of the state and some or all of its citizens.

By which definition Starfleet clearly does in fact qualify, but then again so would armed police in modern society.

It is pretty clear that the organisational structure has directly been rooted in the existing militaries of earth by the time of ENT and even after the formation of the federation that structure seems to hold. Whether that is a carry over from Earth Starfleet as such or simply reflects form following function across the combined fleets which formed the core of Starfleet is a different question.

However we come to the exploratory nature of Starfleet and how that sits with regard to the question. In my view it has no bearing at all. The Beagle, famed for acting as a home for Charles Darwin whilst forming much of his theories, was a fully commissioned Royal Navy vessel, ie a military ship as were the Providence, the Discovery and frankly a vastly overwhelming number of historical vessels notably involved in exploratory or scientific work. Arguably in fact navies spend far more time and resources on exploration than they do fighting wars, in any era. That does not stop them being "military".

In other words the exploratory nature of the mission has no bearing on whether the organisation is a "military" as historically military navies focus much of their peacetime activities on exploration. It's simply something navies do, as in fact do armies to a lesser extent.

Therefore, given the military trappings of starfleet, the military command structure, the military role in wartime and the typical military peacetime activities they engage in it's hard to see how they could really be called anything else.
 
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Who, it should be noted, are military personnel.
YES. But they are not really percieved that way. Legally they are a military, yes.
They can't, really, except in Star Trek. And perhaps not even there, except it so happens that most officers go for the Justice of Peace Proficiency Test and Exam anyway.

Timo Saloniemi
The captain of any maritime vessel has traditionally held the authority to wed any couple on his boat. Today, any captain can still marry anyone but those marriages are not legally recognized by any country unless the captain is registered and licensed (such as a Justice of the Peace or Clergy, or Notary Public. Some smaller countries allow major cruise lines to have their captains licensed to perform weddings at sea). A military officer has no more authority to perform a wedding than any other person without specifically being licensed as such.
 
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Also, when Picard says that Starfleet isn't a military in that TNG show, he's clearly not giving his opinion, but stating a fact.

Oftentimes, there's no difference...

"Starfleet is not a military organization. Its purpose is exploration." That's Picard's take on it, but clearly the second part is a lie of omission, as exploration is not the sole purpose of Starfleet (and fighting wars is but one of the other purposes we know of for certain). So we can simply dismiss the latter part as irrelevant to what Starfleet objectively is.

Starfleet is not a military organization, except that it is its very organization that is thoroughly and indisputably military - just like that of the Salvation Army. So the first part is irrelevant, too.

Finally, the second part is a non sequitur to the first, as military organizations have engaged heavily in exploration in all eras (there would have been no Moon flights without the military, say).

So what Picard is saying is just the vaguest of formulations of what Picard feels about Starfleet's place in the universe, presented in factually incorrect terms although clearly carrying a meaning. It's just that the meaning eludes us because of Picard's poor choice of words.

Timo Saloniemi
 
"There are two settings" is something Reed feels obligated to point out to Archer, adding "best not confuse them" as if he should assume Archer had not considered the implications before and had had no time to do so here. Surely all this has to be absolutely novel?
No, because the number and purpose of the settings are not the only pieces of information being conveyed here, although it can look that way on the page. As he says this he is physically showing Archer where these controls are on the weapon and how to engage them. These are what he is specifically emphasizing as needing to be discerned as a potential source of confusion, as they are right next to each other and appear virtually identical.

"Here are our new service revolvers. They have two positions for the safety, on and off. See how it works? This may save your life." is meaningful dialogue if previous service revolvers had no safeties (in some parallel universe where the term "service revolver" postdated safeties), but is meaningless dialogue of safeties already exist. And not even humorously meaningless, unless there's lots of heavily explicit nudging and winking going on.
Not meaningless at all, assuming as in the "Broken Bow" scene that the speaker is physically demonstrating the engagement of the safety. Perhaps on the new model the safety catch slides horizontally instead of vertically, or toggles or rotates rather than sliding at all, as might have been the case on the previous model. Perhaps the on and off positions are even reversed with respect to the previous model! :eek: There are plenty of ways that the novel design and operation of the safety mechanism might prove confusing without it being necessary or sensible to posit that the former weapons had no safety mechanism whatsoever.

The three ships seen in "The Expanse" all feature the modern red death ray armament that the NX-01 only belatedly acquires, and it would be mightily odd for them not to precede the NX-01.
Doesn't mean they were originally designed and constructed with those particular armaments and had them all along, though. They could have been upgraded in response to first contact with the Klingons and Suliban and reports of other potential threats received during NX-01's first year of service, or simply as a matter of routine implementation of the new tech. Perhaps the phase cannons were designed for the NX project originally, to afford it better protection on the frontier, but encountered delays that forced NX-01 to be initially saddled with plasma cannons. Indeed, if these weapons were already in general use beforehand, why wouldn't NX-01 simply have been fitted with them to begin with?

Yet without warp 5 engines, Earth cannot explore.
Well, I don't know what planet you're from, but the Earth I know has been exploring all along! Henry Archer's engine allowed the forefront of this exploration to push farther than ever before, but so must every other significant preceding advance have done in its time. The scale gets larger and the scope wider at Warp 5, but there was surely plenty to explore just within the Sol System and the 90 light-years of surrounding space that lay in any direction, before NX-01 penetrated beyond that.

...Or, since a time reference as vague as "two centuries ago" is so deliciously malleable, perhaps we saw some of these wars in ENT, with the feline Xindi being responsible for some of the lesser-known attacks that provide the bulk of the dating but the repto-humanoid ones committing the most famous one that is something of a dating outlier? :devil:
The thought did occur to me—and I've often idly wondered if the Xindi plotline took any general inspiration from TAS; see also the Delphic Expanse bearing some rough resemblance to the Delta Triangle of "The Time Trap" and Terra Nova being slightly (though clearly not in the literal sense ;)) reminiscent of Terra 10 from "The Terratin Incident"—but the line was "two hundred years" rather than "two centuries," which might have been a tad more fudge-able, yet even then I can't see how one would arrive at that phrasing when discussing a period ending only midway or more through the preceding century. I can see 180 years being rounded to 200 for example, but not by any stretch 115, and I could even see an event as late as 2099 being described as happening "two centuries" ago from the standpoint of 2270, but not one so late as 2154. (You may no doubt suggest that Sulu was just egregiously bad at dates, but that'd be cheating! :scream:) And besides, none of the specific details discussed in "The Slaver Weapon" match anything we see on ENT. And wait, feline Xindi now?

Was it, now? We get references to Earthly assignments, but also to nonspecific places such as the Janus Loop. There doesn't appear to be a direct reference to them being restricted to any specific theater let alone not sailing to the stars - they just don't embark on Starfleet ships all that often. Perhaps because they have their own? They do seem to have some skill in operating starships and their weaponry.
Here's the bit from "Harbinger":

ARCHER:
The MACOs' tactics and technology are two, three years beyond Starfleet's. Why not let them pass on some of that expertise? You don't agree?
REED: The MACOs' expertise comes from simulated combat, all conducted on Earth. On the other hand, we've fought numerous alien species on many different worlds. If anything, we should be giving the MACOs the benefit of our experience.

If anything, the Military might be assumed to be extensively predeployed at colonies and whatnot
Eh, I dunno, the colonies we hear about on ENT (and even TOS) seem to largely have been left to fend for themselves.

A fascinating interpretation as well! Odd, then, that there should be zero actual mention of UESPA in ENT, least of all in connection with Starfleet...
Actual mention in dialogue no, unless the "Space Agency" that sent S.S. Conestoga to Terra Nova is in fact the very same as seems possible, but NX-01's dedication plaque mentions them and the name appears jointly with Starfleet Command's on a seal (by which I mean logo, not pinniped) in "Demons" that was seen quite prominently. Plus, Kirk of course mentions them a couple of times as his operating authority in early TOS.

Remarkably, Archer is a poor representative of Starfleet in many senses.
Not so poor as Trip, if you were to ask Malcolm at one particularly tense moment in "Singularity"! :lol:

REED: This is all a big joke to you!
TUCKER: Give it a rest!
REED: This isn't a bloody pleasure cruise! Without proper discipline on this ship, this mission is doomed!
TUCKER: Why don't you go play soldier somewhere else?
REED: If this were a military situation you'd be taken out and shot!

Incidentally, this need for discipline in successful space exploration may be a reason why Starfleet's structure was based upon and organized around naval traditions in the first place.

...Meaning that "Cochrane's warp drive concept" need not have been special in any way; it would all be in the timing.

Would the heroes and their kinsmen realize half of that? Or do they see mankind's skyrocketing to prominence as a manifest destiny where Cochrane just exemplifies the conquering spirit of humanity, rather than being the one man who made the entire thing possible in the first place?
From First Contact:

RIKER: It is one of the pivotal moments in human history, Doctor. You get to make first contact with an alien race, and after you do, everything begins to change.
LAFORGE: Your theories on warp drive allow fleets of starships to be built and mankind to start exploring the Galaxy.
TROI: It unites humanity in a way no one ever thought possible when they realize they're not alone in the universe. Poverty, disease, war...they'll all be gone within the next fifty years.
RIKER: But unless you make that warp flight tomorrow morning before 11:15, none of it will happen.

Sounds like they realize it well enough to me!
 
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Court martial is a purely military term. There is no such thing as a "civilian court martial." It can only exist in a military setting. Also Starfleet has a Judge Advocate General, even on TNG. Such a position does not exist outside of the military.

Today. Sure. Then? Who knows.Definitions and meanings change all the time.

.

Since the MACOs are Earth's genuine military that admits it's military, one really has to wonder why they aren't handling the duty that's always a military's, and why that job is being handled by the "explorers" instead.

More advanced in terms of weaponry perhaps - but do they have a warp 5 ship? Probably not. It's explicitly stated that Enterprise is the first of it's kind in that regard. We don't know if the MACO's even HAVE ships let alone anything fast enough to get to the Xindi.


For what other reason is a ship going to be designed "for combat?"

But Voyager ISN'T designed for Combat. It's got combat capabilities. Because sending a ship out into the unknown without the ability to defend itself is just plain stupid.



But also worth tossing in, we've seen Starfleet captains and admirals officiating weddings. Military officers are the only people aside from religious officials and Justices of the Peace who can do that.

That's just not true. Some Cruise Ship captains are legally able to do so.

Scroll down to what it says about Celebrity Cruises

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/cruises/articles/Cruises-How-to-get-married-at-sea/
 
Today. Sure. Then? Who knows.Definitions and meanings change all the time.

.

Indeed, but presupposing that the language has changed to support one's notions about that future is not ideal, especially when doing so against all evidence to the contrary.

Starfleet is a military organisation, that doesn't invalidate any of the high ideals we ascribe to it and it's officers, but given their role, structure and remit it's very hard to call them anything else.

But Voyager ISN'T designed for Combat. It's got combat capabilities. Because sending a ship out into the unknown without the ability to defend itself is just plain stupid.

Currently being discussed in the other thread, so not worth debating here I suppose except to say that statement is far from definitive. All ships are sent out with SOME means to defend themselves but there seems to be a fair bit of evidence that Voyager was more heavily biased in that direction than most.
 
If I recall, a few hundred years ago, the navy was not part of the "Military", as the "Military" was the Army (soldiers and soldiering, which you don't do while sailing). The Navy was the Navy.

The first recorded use of the word military in English, spelled militarie, was in 1585.[2] It comes from the Latin militaris (from Latin miles meaning "soldier") but is of uncertain etymology, one suggestion being derived from *mil-it- – going in a body or mass.[3][4] The word is now identified as denoting someone that is skilled in use of weapons, or engaged in military service or in warfare.[5][6]

As a noun the military usually refers generally to a country's armed forces or sometimes, more specifically, to the senior officers who command them.[5][6] In general it refers to the physicality of armed forces, their personnel, equipment, and physical area which they occupy.

As an adjective military originally referred only to soldiers and soldiering, but it soon broadened to apply to land forces in general and anything to do with their profession.[2] The names of both the Royal Military Academy (1741) and United States Military Academy (1802) reflect this. However, at about the time of the Napoleonic Wars, "military" began to be used in reference to armed forces as a whole[2] and in the 21st century expressions like "military service", "military intelligence" and "military history" encompass naval, marine and air force aspects. As such, it now connotes any activity performed by armed force personnel.

Starfleet might operate along a similar line of reasoning in definitions by the 24th century.
 
USS Voyager is better designed for combat, if you need a more maneuverable starship than the likes of a Galaxy-class ship. It is armed about as well as a Galaxy on a smaller hull. It may not have the multi-torpedo launching tubes of the larger Galaxy-class, but they have twice as many tubes on Voyager. After the Galaxy's get their Dominion War refits (the added phaser strips on the nacelles) the Intrepid and Galaxy classes have the same number of phasers.

That is assuming the Intrepid design has the same firepower output through their phasers as a Galaxy. I would guess a Galaxy has more staying power due to her larger warp core.
 
If I recall, a few hundred years ago, the navy was not part of the "Military", as the "Military" was the Army (soldiers and soldiering, which you don't do while sailing). The Navy was the Navy.



Starfleet might operate along a similar line of reasoning in definitions by the 24th century.

As in MACOs are military as they are ground forces?
 
Court martial is a purely military term. There is no such thing as a "civilian court martial." It can only exist in a military setting. Also Starfleet has a Judge Advocate General, even on TNG. Such a position does not exist outside of the military.

Today. Sure. Then? Who knows.Definitions and meanings change all the time.

But that doesn't address why that term is used in preference to just "court." Would non-Starfleet Federation citizens be tried by Starfleet courts-martial?

If I recall, a few hundred years ago, the navy was not part of the "Military", as the "Military" was the Army (soldiers and soldiering, which you don't do while sailing). The Navy was the Navy.

That's true but "military" was also used more specifically to describe aspects of the naval service which were particular to its fighting mission, as distinct from more generic maritime aspects which it had in common with the merchant service. The Navy List, 1914:

navy_list_14_ranks_zps5b82iw7k.png
 
Despite the fact that Tom Paris said it is? Hey, if characters saying Starfleet isn't a military is good enough for the argument, so is that line.

I'd have to see the VGR episode to remember the exact context, but I recall it being an off the cuff comment that may or may not have been meant to be taken seriously (Voyager could also have been built as a peaceful ship that could defend itself, hence being designed for combat but not being a military ship. It was built after the big Borg attack, after all.)

Also, Picard's comment being more definitive, at an official briefing, not making sense if it's just his opinion, and the fact that Starfleet building warships is almost unheard of (a serious no-no for a military, even in a time of peace) would outweigh one single line, since that evidence is stronger.
 
and the fact that Starfleet building warships is almost unheard of
So, Starfleet builds ships that are purposely designed to be the ships to be used in war, but they don't build "warships."

Similar to America used to have a War Department, but changed the name to the Defense Department. But it had the same people, same uniforms, same (war) ships.

Something like that, simply a matter of labeling.

In other words, Starfleet has always had warships.
 
Similar to America used to have a War Department, but changed the name to the Defense Department. But it had the same people, same uniforms, same (war) ships.

Pretty much, but before 1947 the War Department was the Army (and Army Air Forces) and the Navy Department was the Navy and Marines. The Defense Department combined the two plus the new independent Air Force.

Something like that, simply a matter of labeling.

In other words, Starfleet has always had warships.

Yeah, they don't want it to be part of their "brand."
 
Actually the MACOs were more advanced than Starfleet (Archer says so in Harbinger) and it would not have been any more effort to transport them to Vulcan to handle the embassy security. Since the MACOs are Earth's genuine military that admits it's military, one really has to wonder why they aren't handling the duty that's always a military's, and why that job is being handled by the "explorers" instead.
Actually, while their costumes were obviously re-used Starfleet uniforms, their patches identified the embassy personnel as United Earth Diplomatic Corps and their ranks included that of corporal, which Starfleet doesn't seem to use (in contrast to the MACOs). No one ever actually refers to them as Starfleet personnel, despite the similarity of uniforms that would naturally cause the casual viewer to think that. They could be the equivalent of today's Diplomatic Security Service, which is civilian. (Although, there are the military name and rank...but then Starfleet itself and many paramilitary organizations today use those as well.)

For what other reason is a ship going to be designed "for combat?"
While this is certainly an exercise in hair splitting—and as I've said I agree that by the 24th century Starfleet has long had a military role, at least insofar as we would define it today—Paris puns that Voyager was designed for "combat performance" over "musical performance" when Harry complains (or rather others do) that the fluid conduits in the walls conduct sound too readily. If one wants to get overly semantic (or pedantic) this could mean little more than that the ship's structure was designed to withstand the pressures of combat as it might arise in emergencies, to hold up under attack, rather being designed for the intended purpose of fighting. Personally, I am content to take it at face value and believe combat was indeed one of the ship's intended purposes, though. After all, their original assignment was to chase down Maquis!

While watching TOS, especially season 1 it is very clear the writers were basing Starfleet on the US Navy, to the extent it can reasonably be called the Navy in Space. The references to it being non-military in the other shows come from Roddenberry suddenly feeling military to be a dirty word in his later years, and then for some reason Berman and now Abrams are sticking to that, despite the fact most of Roddenberry's other sacred cows have since been done away with.
It was more based on the Royal Navy in the early 19th century as depicted through the fictional Horatio Hornblower stories, to be accurate. And just for the record, speaking only for myself, I do not consider military a "dirty word" and none of my arguments on this subject are motivated by such a viewpoint, irrespective of whether or not it was Roddenberry's at any point. (Of course, it is surely worth at least considering what the intent behind the fiction was, as you have.)

So, Starfleet builds ships that are purposely designed to be the ships to be used in war, but they don't build "warships."
This is certainly true by the end of the 23rd century, and indeed in all probability by the end of the 22nd. But what evidence exactly do we have that at the time of Starfleet's founding its ships were "purposely designed to be the ships used in war," war being something which had been unknown on Earth—and in Earth space as well by the available references, probably thanks in no small part to the Vulcan High Command's presence, which might obviate the need and/or legal capacity for a dedicated space military in the eyes of Earth's government—for at least two decades prior?

Similar to America used to have a War Department, but changed the name to the Defense Department. But it had the same people, same uniforms, same (war) ships.
True, but go back far enough and we had barely if any defined military forces at all, only what could be scraped together ad hoc, and relying heavily on civilian militias.

Since specific comparisons to the U.S. Navy and Coast Guard have been raised by others, let's review the early history of those. During the Revolutionary War the Continental Navy (whose authorization was met with staunch vocal objection in the Continental Congress to begin with) initially consisted of a few converted merchant ships, later joined by 13 newly-constructed frigates, and eventually other vessels that were chartered/loaned/captured, only a handful of which survived the war, following which the entire operation was disbanded and they were sold off.

We were then entirely without a navy for years, relying solely on the Revenue Cutter Service (which would eventually be merged with the Life-Saving Service to form the Coast Guard, to be joined later still by the Lighthouse Service and Navigation and Steamboat Services) until it became clear that this was insufficient to deal with the threat of piracy that grew in the absence of the British Royal Navy's protection of shipping, and despite continued opposition in Congress, a U.S. Navy was authorized in 1794, with its first vessel to be launched being U.S.S. Constitution (:)) in 1797.

However we come to the exploratory nature of Starfleet and how that sits with regard to the question. In my view it has no bearing at all. The Beagle, famed for acting as a home for Charles Darwin whilst forming much of his theories, was a fully commissioned Royal Navy vessel, ie a military ship as were the Providence, the Discovery and frankly a vastly overwhelming number of historical vessels notably involved in exploratory or scientific work. Arguably in fact navies spend far more time and resources on exploration than they do fighting wars, in any era. That does not stop them being "military".

In other words the exploratory nature of the mission has no bearing on whether the organisation is a "military" as historically military navies focus much of their peacetime activities on exploration. It's simply something navies do, as in fact do armies to a lesser extent.
Despite the indisputable and amply evident fact that it's "something they do" I am not aware of any historical military organization whose stated primary purpose for existing was exploration, though. They exist to defend territorial interests and fight wars, and the exploration they carry out and participate in is incidental to this purpose. Conversely, it seems to me that up to Archer's time at least, Starfleet existed to explore and seek out new life, and any participation in defense and fighting they undertook was incidental to this purpose. The fact that their ships were well-armed and their organizational structure superficially based upon that of a navy (no doubt due to the similar need for discipline that Malcolm points out in "Singularity") does not in itself constitute strong evidence against this.

Also, it's worth noting that while its initial impetus certainly had military motivations and it has been facilitated by extensive backing and use of military resources, the exploration of space specifically has been largely undertaken by civilian agencies in recent history.

OTOH, "military" being the opposite of "navy" is solid military terminology, again from about a century back. It has simply gone out of fashion; Trek could have it back with a vengeance.
If I recall, a few hundred years ago, the navy was not part of the "Military", as the "Military" was the Army (soldiers and soldiering, which you don't do while sailing). The Navy was the Navy.

Starfleet might operate along a similar line of reasoning in definitions by the 24th century.
As in MACOs are military as they are ground forces?
Well, that specific distinction is clearly not in play, as Malcolm describes the Royal Navy as military. The idea that there is an analogous distinction between what Starfleet is and what "militaries" are is a better one, which I take it may be what one or more of you meant. (I.e., space-based vs. planet-based instead of water-based vs. land-based.) And yet, I can't recall any examples of another world's space force being referred to as "the x-ian starfleet," while I do seem to have some vague recollection of them being referred to as their militaries.
 
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