They already had the funeral. It was buried in a plot next to the N-word.
So ST is dead...PT II
- Thread starter RAMA
- Start date
Against all evidence of 25 seasons of ST TV, 10 movies, shows which had better ratings and more awards than TOS since 1969, I think we'll take the above with a grain of salt. Sure the ratings and recent grosses were lower, but that doesn't negate some of record breaking success of modern Trek. There's no reason a new movie can't achieve the much sought after cache of big stars and merchandising that is popular now. ST was always a niche show, but its so consistent in its longevity, that it has grossed over $5 billion as a franchise...Died since TOS indeed.
RAMA
Indeed it has. The ability of the franchise owners to suck cash out of fans doesn't change my opinion that Trek without the TOS gang is a reanimated corpse.
I hope the movie brings it back to life, I really do. It's possible, but if it's just more post TOS franchise McTrek, then the yawnmeter gets pegged.
I hope the movie brings it back to life, I really do. It's possible, but if it's just more post TOS franchise McTrek, then the yawnmeter gets pegged.
Right now, "Star Trek" means essentially nothing to most of the potential audience. To the extent it means anything, it means "something that used to be good about a million years ago, but nobody cares now."
So one of Abrams' chief tasks is to resurrect the notion that "Trek = entertaining sci fi, well worth watching" for the general public. One kick-ass movie, backed by a big budget and big marketing, could do that. It's amazing what millions of dollars can do (as long as the product doesn't suck, and even then sometimes when it does).
I was talking up the new Star Trek movie to one a group of friends, and one of them said he liked Star Wars better. He then said something to the effect that Trek is for kids, while Star Wars is more college-aged. I replied that Star Wars was college, but Trek is adult. But if he hadn't been a good friend, I would've had to take him out.
While you can measure success in many ways, including sucking cash out of our pockets, the ratings and awards, a numerous accolades were also something I tried to mention. Just because the shows didn't conform to your viewpoint doesn't mean millions (and STNG averaged 17 million of them a week) of people didn't like the shows. So I re-iterate, if NEW projects galore doesn't mean the franchise is healthy, or even in a revival period after a short haitus, then I'm still happy to have the opportunity to see the new projects.
RAMA
Star Trek is like The Pheniox [sp] It has died and risen from it's ahses. Many times over now
1st birth - TOS on NBC.
1st death - NBC canceling TOS.
1st rebirth - TAS.
2nd birth - TOS in Syndication. ( I count this as a birth as this is how most fans caught Star Trek was in syndication not in first run. )
2nd death - Canceling of Phase ][.
2nd rebirth - TMP.
3rd death - None.
3rd rebirth - TNG.
4th death - None.
4th rebirth - DS9.
5th death - None.
5th rebirth - Voy.
6th death - None.
6th rebirth - Ent.
7th death - UPN cancleing Ent.
7th rebirth ? - Star Trek (2008)
- W -
* More or less *
1st birth - TOS on NBC.
1st death - NBC canceling TOS.
1st rebirth - TAS.
2nd birth - TOS in Syndication. ( I count this as a birth as this is how most fans caught Star Trek was in syndication not in first run. )
2nd death - Canceling of Phase ][.
2nd rebirth - TMP.
3rd death - None.
3rd rebirth - TNG.
4th death - None.
4th rebirth - DS9.
5th death - None.
5th rebirth - Voy.
6th death - None.
6th rebirth - Ent.
7th death - UPN cancleing Ent.
7th rebirth ? - Star Trek (2008)
- W -
* More or less *
That's a good way of putting it, plus not all the products aimed at this niche are being accepted. See my sig, for example. I have no intention of supporting the HD alternate versions of TOS or TNG, for example, and I've lost interest in the books for reasons too complex to get in to. But the comics still interest me, and comics are no longer, as a whole, marketed for younger demographics.
I sort of see the Trek franchise in 2005-2007 (actually 1999-2007 because it really started to slump when DS9 ended) the way the Doctor Who franchise was in the 1989-2005 period. There was a lot going on if you knew where to look -- the Big Finish audio productions, original novels, and tons of fan-made projects (sound familiar?) -- but to the general public it had more or less faded away. Then the show came back in spectacular fashion in 2005 and suddenly it was huge again.
The hope is that Trek XI will perform the same miracle. By rights it should -- Doctor Who may be the older franchise, but Trek has the larger fanbase -- as long as the many factions of fandom that have been spintered since the days of TNG are willing to come together and start fresh, and as long as Abrams is able to overcome the kitsch factor that keeps mainstream audiences away from Trek.
Cheers
Alex
I personally am sick and tired of everyone and everything being centered around "the general/mainstream" audience. Screw them. Make a movie for US, the fans and stop worrying about making mega-millions of dollars on this movie, cause you aren't gonna do it either way, so why not just focus on pleasing the real Star Trek audience?
If that was their philosophy, the budget would be about $100,000 dollars for the whole thing, because they would know that they wouldn't make any money back otherwise.
You do realize that Paramount or any other movie company only ever makes any movie as a source of financial gain, right? They're not doing it for a general feeling of euphoria and the hope of karmic return.
On a personal level, if I get enjoyment out of a show, I don't NEED others to like it or great ratings, profit, etc. I don't mind liking a niche show of any kind. However, those things do add up to a success level that the studios want to MAKE these shows we love. So we have to count them as an important part of our fan interest.
RAMA
But I think that model *could* make a decent profit. Not as a theatrical movie, but a series of direct to DVD (or Blu-Ray) episodes, something like what's happening with the b5 movie. It's made for the fans, and I think it will work because the budget is low enough that you could make money just off DVD sales.
I've also seen a few Westerns that work that way. Into the West for example. It was shown maybe once on TV, but mostly the money comes from DVD sales. Anime does the same -- there are a lot of animes out there that aren't mainstream enough to get a big TV audience, so they sell the disks (and in many cases toys).
Besides which, I think you could probably get a higher quality show this way. You don't have to worry about advertisers or dumbing it down for the masses.
Actually they attempted to make a fan-centric movie and hired a hardcore Trek geek to write it. He talked a lot about how it was aimed at the heavy-duty Trek fans like himself, and how he dug all the way back to a classic TOS episode as the movie's starting point, etc.
That movie was called Nemesis. Didn't work out particularly well.
My feeling is, you can make a good, compelling story that also happens to be a Star Trek movie and please both the fans and the mainstream, non-fan viewer. They managed to do that with TWOK, and hopefully they can pull it off again.
Having not seen the movie, I'm curious. Which episode was that?
"Nemesis" starts on Romulus (and Remus), so John Logan would have been referencing "Balance of Terror", the episode that introduced the Romulans and their twin planets.
Because Star Trek fans make up only about 10% of the general audiennce. They are only influential when they choose to go over and over again. TMP, ST II, ST IV, ST VI and "First Contact" were big money-spinners because general audiences went to see the movie at least once and the diehard fans, who delivered the positive word of mouth, went to see them numerous times.
"Nemesis" flopped in the USA because not even all the ST fans bothered going, not even once. Word of mouth was negative, so were the film reviews, and the movie never intrigued the general populace. On opening weekend, North American audiences chose to see... "Maid in Manhattan". Serves you right!
However, Region 1 DVD collectors were suitably intrigued enough to make "Nemesis" the #1 DVD upon its first release.