So is Lunix completely useless?

[strongmind]

If you don't like having full control over your operating environment, then many of the advantages of Linux will be lost on you. You can fine-tune Linux to a far greater degree than you can Windows.

If you really want to be convinced about Linux, download Wubi and install Ubuntu non-destructively. Windows won't go anywhere, and if you end up not liking Ubuntu, just run Wubi again to uninstall it. No risk.

My Ubuntu installation was completely unattended, as I recall. When I came back to it, it was ready to rock, with every last device detected and operational. You might be thinking, "but Windows does that, too." Actually, it doesn't. Your PC just happens to ship with drivers, but Microsoft did not provide those, usually.

Because it's a different operating system, expect a learning curve. If it suits your needs, great. If not, go back to Windows.

Linux advocacy is often a misguided, futile effort, but this sort of nonsensical trolling is even worse.

I tried linux but it keeps asking for passwords and shows a black screen with dense numbers and cryptic messages.

It will not boot.Tried every version ubunta and koppentu.

What does it mean?

You might have some exotic hardware that it doesn't recognize. If you could post some of the messages involved, that would be more helpful. There's also an issue I know of where some hard drives don't spin up fast enough for Linux's liking, and it will abort the boot process because of it. You type "exit" at the prompt, press Enter, and it goes about its merry way.

That's the only thing that comes to mind immediately, though.

I am afraid it is bog standard hardware which can run win95 to windows 7.

It is impossible to post messages as it just a black boot screen which scrolls up a dozen pages with hev/dev/kev >. messages then halts in limbo land.You cannot take screen shots of a bootscreen.

I visited various linux forums but the impression I got it is really for people with too much time on their hands.They advocate using complrx command lines when they can simply copy/paste.There was also sniping at each other and newbies were laughed at for not being linux "savvy".

 

[sojourner]

Your visiting the wrong forums. Try the Ubuntu forum. Most of the linux forums I have been to have been very newbie friendly.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I tried linux but it keeps asking for passwords and shows a black screen with dense numbers and cryptic messages.

It will not boot.Tried every version ubunta and koppentu.

What does it mean?

You might have some exotic hardware that it doesn't recognize. If you could post some of the messages involved, that would be more helpful. There's also an issue I know of where some hard drives don't spin up fast enough for Linux's liking, and it will abort the boot process because of it. You type "exit" at the prompt, press Enter, and it goes about its merry way.

That's the only thing that comes to mind immediately, though.

I am afraid it is bog standard hardware which can run win95 to windows 7.

It is impossible to post messages as it just a black boot screen which scrolls up a dozen pages with hev/dev/kev >. messages then halts in limbo land.You cannot take screen shots of a bootscreen.

I visited various linux forums but the impression I got it is really for people with too much time on their hands.They advocate using complrx command lines when they can simply copy/paste.There was also sniping at each other and newbies were laughed at for not being linux "savvy".

No, I am well aware you can't take shots of a boot screen. You can still write down whatever the bottom-most error message is, which is likely going to be the most relevant.

But either you're willing to learn it or you aren't. If you aren't, go back to Windows. Sometimes, there is hardware that trips Linux up. What do you expect when most drivers are written by people who don't have the manufacturer's specs to work from? You're getting all this for free. It's not perfect, but it works for a decent number of people.

If you really want to be able to use it and you're running into problems, it's going to take some work, but as others have mentioned, there are active communities out there to help you get started.

What I find completely unproductive is the bitching about it. If you want it to work, then get help making it work. If you don't, then go back to Windows/Mac/whatever. But no one can magically solve your problems from afar if you can't provide accurate troubleshooting data.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I visited various linux forums but the impression I got it is really for people with too much time on their hands.They advocate using complrx command lines when they can simply copy/paste.There was also sniping at each other and newbies were laughed at for not being linux "savvy".

Pics or it didn't happen.

 

[Alpha_Geek]

...You cannot take screen shots of a bootscreen...

Use an LCD monitor and put it on a flatbed scanner or photocopier.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Or take a picture. I thought that's why they but cameras on phones, so people could take pictures of the bootstrap?

 

[USS KG5]

Or take a picture. I thought that's why they but cameras on phones, so people could take pictures of the bootstrap?

Certainly less depressing than "to sell more phones".

 

[Marc]

I tried linux but it keeps asking for passwords and shows a black screen with dense numbers and cryptic messages.

It will not boot.Tried every version ubunta and koppentu.

What does it mean?

You might have some exotic hardware that it doesn't recognize. If you could post some of the messages involved, that would be more helpful. There's also an issue I know of where some hard drives don't spin up fast enough for Linux's liking, and it will abort the boot process because of it. You type "exit" at the prompt, press Enter, and it goes about its merry way.

That's the only thing that comes to mind immediately, though.

I am afraid it is bog standard hardware which can run win95 to windows 7.

It is impossible to post messages as it just a black boot screen which scrolls up a dozen pages with hev/dev/kev >. messages then halts in limbo land.You cannot take screen shots of a bootscreen.

I visited various linux forums but the impression I got it is really for people with too much time on their hands.They advocate using complrx command lines when they can simply copy/paste.There was also sniping at each other and newbies were laughed at for not being linux "savvy".

You've never dealt with windows sysadmins, hardcore games and the like have you? That sort of attitude is no what shape or form unique to linux users especially if they are percieved as asking stupid questions.

In these case asking about /dev/kev which doesn't appear legitimate - I have two linux systems (one running CentOS and one running rpath and neither has a /dev/kev entry).

There's no wiki entry and there's no google reference.

Now perhaps you mean /dev/kvm.

But if you can't get the basis of your question right you're going to get an appropriate response.

 

[CorporalClegg]

^
Also, I don't consider comments like RTFM (or MAN pages) as "sniping" has he suggested. The does bug me. When someone says he/she was mistreated because someone told them to read the documentation before asking a question.

For starters it's just common sense. People act like it's some ridiculous expectation, but having working knowledge of the basics isn't too much to ask.

People who provide help on newbie boards (myself included) get tired of having to answer the same question 50 times a day. Especially when, with a little work and intuitive, the person can probably find the answer on his own.

BTW: How is CentOS? I'd like to get back into doing some Red Hat work. I tried the newest Fedora last month and fucking hated it.

 

[Marc]

^
Also, I don't consider comments like RTFM (or MAN pages) as "sniping" has he suggested. The does bug me. When someone says he/she was mistreated because someone told them to read the documentation before asking a question.

For starters it's just common sense. People act like it's some ridiculous expectation, but having working knowledge of the basics isn't too much to ask.

People who provide help on newbie boards (myself included) get tired of having to answer the same question 50 times a day. Especially when, with a little work and intuitive, the person can probably find the answer on his own.

Seems strange he can find the user groups etc but can't do basic research and google for answers? I don't things are quite what they are claimed.

BTW: How is CentOS? I'd like to get back into doing some Red Hat work. I tried the newest Fedora last month and fucking hated it.

I have to admit I don't actually do much with the CentOS. I run Trixbox and that's build on CentOS so it's just sits there and runs.

The rpath is used for an OpenFiler based NAS.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

My server runs CentOS. The only thing I've ever had trouble with is when I add new packages, especially ones with a lot of dependencies. Last time I installed something, it broke my SSH configuration--for something that had nothing to do with SSH!

Easily fixed, but still. You need to know what you're doing.

 

[John Picard]

Despite Windows 7, Linux raps harder at company doors

SEATTLE — The launch of the Windows 7 computer operating system on Thursday should help Microsoft (MSFT) tighten its grip as the dominant supplier of desktops and laptops to the business world.
But that hasn't stopped backers of Linux — the upstart operating system created by a global community of programmers — from plotting a coup.
No one expects Linux to replace Windows at big organizations. Linux failed to make big inroads when the vast majority of businesses skipped upgrading to Windows Vista after it came out in 2007. But some tech analysts say circumstances now bode well for accelerated use of Linux by businesses with 10 to 500 employees.

To anyone who bashes Linux -- you need to know that Linux has been making inroads in the world of corporate networking. Inch by inch, it is gaining steam as businesses are getting fed up with issues with Microsoft's licensing and support practices as well as how MS tends to render an O/S obsolete in order to force end users to upgrade. Yes, there are people here who sing the praises of Vista day in and day out; however, the people who matter, that being Corporations, BALKED. That should tell you something.

 

[USS KG5]

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2009-10-22-windows-microsoft-linux_N.htmTo anyone who bashes Linux -- you need to know that Linux has been making inroads in the world of corporate networking. Inch by inch, it is gaining steam as businesses are getting fed up with issues with Microsoft's licensing and support practices as well as how MS tends to render an O/S obsolete in order to force end users to upgrade. Yes, there are people here who sing the praises of Vista day in and day out; however, the people who matter, that being Corporations, BALKED. That should tell you something.

Quite correct, except for the Vista bit, don't mix a good pro-linux post with an MS bash!

Linux has a great niche as an OS for small web servers, database servers whatever back-office application you like really. It is also a great enthusiasts OS and provides great opportunities to learn scripting and raw programming that helps you avoid bad habits when you end up developing applications in VB.Net.

What is clear though is that as a desktop system for Mr Average Joe it will never get anywhere, the complexity curve just hits too early and issues that to advanced users are casual and easy absolutely baffle the average high-street customer.

 

[Jimmy_C]

$699 (which you legally own Novell if you install Linux) is still $300 more than Windows Server 2003.

I just want to reiterate that this is completely untrue. You don't owe Novell anything if you install Linux.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Anyway, I thought it was SCO that claimed everyone using Linux owes them money.

 

[drasche]

Anyway, I thought it was SCO that claimed everyone using Linux owes them money.

They did, and they lost because they never had anything to back that claim and Novell made that clear in court.

Now they are nearly bankrupt and they might not make it. They even fired the CEO who got that idea in the first place (as part of Chapter 11's recommendations).

 

[Marc]

Anyway, I thought it was SCO that claimed everyone using Linux owes them money.

SCO never had a leg to stand on and basically it was last ditch effort by a company that was haemoraging money to try and make some.

It lost and SCO is pretty much history.

Also if I remember correctly the dispute was over a fairily insignificant amount of code that a first year Comp Sci student could of written and which could of been removed without a great deal of hassle.

 

[Shaw]

I can't believe how few people followed this case... specially Linux people!

SCO claimed they owned Unix (System V) and they knew (because they once were a Linux company, Caldera, and had a team of MIT mathematicians study the source code) that IBM had taken code from AIX and put it into Linux. While AIX is based on System V, IBM had made a ton of enhancements (like the file system, which they also used for OS/2 Warp), which SCO claimed were derivative works (even if no System V code was used).

SCO knew they didn't actually have the legal paperwork of owning System V and tried to get Novell to give them it. Upon review Novell realized that they had stopped short of selling SCO System V because SCO couldn't afford it, and SCO was actually supposed to be acting as a management company for System V licenses and where supposed to be passing the bulk of that money (something like 90-95% of it) along to Novell anyways. And Novell could wave any legal issues with any licensee if they wanted and had to have a say for licencees doing a full buyout.

The reason this was such an issue is that Sun and Microsoft paid huge amounts of money to SCO (and Sun had bought out their license and had converted Solaris into OpenSolaris, which was based on System V) and Novell was neither consulted on either dealing nor given the majority of that money which they were owed. Further, Novell exercised their rights and told SCO to drop the case against IBM.

At about the same time Red Hat sued SCO to show (definitively) that any code in Linux was infringing.

The three law suits went forward... and right off the bat the MIT mathematicians disappeared (as in they never existed). SCO's case against IBM was based on anything that touched System V (even if it never used System V code) was considered derivative work, but that case fell apart. Red Hat's case was put on hold, and Novell showed that not only did SCO never own System V, but that nearly all the money SCO was living on from Sun and Microsoft wasn't theirs to be spending.

Watching this all play out was a thing of beauty. Tons of (Microsoft funded) "computer experts" wrote articles early on how this was the end of Linux and had gotten inside interviews with SCO (and were even shown the supposed infringing source code)... only to be shown that they had no idea what they were talking about. And the courts had little patience for SCO's games, so it was fun reading the scolding they got in addition to losing.

I was a daily reader of Groklaw (and when I could, contributed) from 2002 to 2008. I've read most of the filings on all sides and all of the court responses. It was fun, but took too long (in my opinion) to reach the obvious conclusions.


I'm not a Linux user, but use operating systems based on System V (Solaris, IRIX and A/UX) and BSD (NEXTSTEP, OPENSTEP, Rhapsody, Mac OS X), and I could tell early on that SCO was lying. Further, it was Linux that pushed the price of Unix based operating systems down to something more reasonable (it was the System V and BSD licenses that made A/UX and NEXTSTEP cost about $800 each). And a similar law suit was taken against BSD (Berkeley Software Design and the Regents of the University of California) by the owners of System V (Unix System Laboratories/AT&T) when an attempt to release BSD as open source was done in the early 1990. That law suit slowed BSD adoption and gave Linux the opportunity to step forward.

Linux is both good for (and in my opinion vital to) a healthy computing ecosystem. We desperately need more diverse computing platforms, not fewer ones.