So I'm watching "Thine Own Self"....

[Sibo191]

... And I noticed that the test Troi is taking seems to be another version of the Kobayashi Maru test. Did anyone else notice this while watching this episode, or am I just jumping to conclusions?

My thoughts are that maybe it's the "lite" version of the test given to officers that would not normally take the test at the Academy.

Any thoughts?

 

[boobatuba]

... And I noticed that the test Troi is taking seems to be another version of the Kobayashi Maru test. Did anyone else notice this while watching this episode, or am I just jumping to conclusions?

My thoughts are that maybe it's the "lite" version of the test given to officers that would not normally take the test at the Academy.

Any thoughts?

I don't find it as comparable to the Kobayashi Maru test as I do to the one Wesley Crusher took for academy entrance (the "psych test"). The KM is specifically a tactical test for command officer candidates. Troi is only training to be a bridge officer and not a command officer (note that she continue to wear sciences blue after her promotion). She can sit in the center seat but would almost surely call the big dogs in any sort of trouble. I didn't see any indication (nor did Riker mention any) that she had been tested on her tactical knowledge.

They sure make it look easy to make Commander, though, don't they? Kind of makes you wonder how Troi gets promoted above Data.

 

[Tosk]

Deanna's test cannot be a Kobayashi style test, as it is not a no-win scenario. She passed the test, whereas the point of the KM test is to see how people react to not being able to pass.

I have to question the point of a test that you can take over and over until you get it right in the way we see Deanna do it. Surely a test that changes each time would be better for what they're supposedly trying to teach/test her.

 

[Mojochi]

Deanna's test cannot be a Kobayashi style test, as it is not a no-win scenario. She passed the test, whereas the point of the KM test is to see how people react to not being able to pass.

I have to question the point of a test that you can take over and over until you get it right in the way we see Deanna do it. Surely a test that changes each time would be better for what they're supposedly trying to teach/test her.

Agreed on both counts. Although, the way Riker puts it, the only real requirement is that the subject needs to weigh all the options & then finally accept the only workable solution, which is to sacrifice one life to save the rest.

It seems the only flaw in her performance was the time factor. She spent quite a while testing out her variables, & essentially running probability simulations, before making the right call. Whether her performance was applicable to a real life scenario, like the simulated one, is not the essential point

It would seem, none of that matters in this particular test. It's sole purpose it to test character, but then he gave her a hint? C'mon!

 

[Forbin]

And it's not exactly character-building to send a holographic simulated person to his simulated death in a simulated situation where the testee knows nothing is really at stake. Testee. Heh

 

[RAMA]

And it's not exactly character-building to send a holographic simulated person to his simulated death in a simulated situation where the testee knows nothing is really at stake. Testee. Heh

Hmm, so the army is wasting its time with simulated video drills? Im guessing their trainers are judging their actions and character as they go as part of an overall evaluation.

RAMA

 

[Sibo191]

Deanna's test cannot be a Kobayashi style test, as it is not a no-win scenario. She passed the test, whereas the point of the KM test is to see how people react to not being able to pass.

I have to question the point of a test that you can take over and over until you get it right in the way we see Deanna do it. Surely a test that changes each time would be better for what they're supposedly trying to teach/test her.

She passed the test, but I don't know that I accept that the test she took as anymore win-able than the big boy's KM. I'm not sure if there has been any mention of or how the KM is done in the 24th century, I'm only speculating but Perhaps they tailor the test to each specific testee. I could also easily accept that Troi would find that knowingly sending a crew member to their death an unwinable situation.

I'm not sure why they kept referring to it as a bridge officer's test since she was already a bridge officer (albeit a useless one most of the time). I took as more of her wanting to move into a command type of position. (to be able to command if needed) I don't believe there is anything really keeping her from moving into the command division if she really wanted it.

I have never heard or thought of the KM as unpassable, just unwinable. I could see there being a difference. And like I said this test seemed more like a "lite" or "mini" version of the KM not the real deal.

 

[Shatnertage]

^^^^^^^^
We know that no one beat the KM--but has anyone actually failed it? Like had a Bailey-in-"The Corombite Maneuver"-type meltdown right there in the simulator?

Is it logical to say that if you can't win, you can't lose?

 

[Tosk]

I could also easily accept that Troi would find that knowingly sending a crew member to their death an unwinable situation.

That's pretty subjective though. If her test were truly a test that cannot be won, the ship would still explode even after her ordering Geordi to certain death. (For example.)

 

[Sibo191]

[/QUOTE]That's pretty subjective though. If her test were truly a test that cannot be won, the ship would still explode even after her ordering Geordi to certain death. (For example.)[/QUOTE]

Subjective? Yes, 100%.

There is no way to know if, in the simulation Geordi could have fixed the problem in time before his eventual death, Riker ended the simulation. Which made me think that the "engineering" section of the test as it was called, had absolutely nothing to do with a repair to the ship.