So I returned a laptop battery to Dell

[Rii]

I worked for Dell in the warranty division (specifically HDD replacement/software imaging). Believe me when I tell you I have no confidence in the brand.

J.

Have you worked in the warranty divisions of many other major computer manufacturers to make a useful comparison?

Excuse me? I only made my comment regarding Dell, hence "no confidence in the brand". I don't know where you got the idea I meant every manufacturer. I don't need to see other manufacturing facilities for other companies to know the fail rate for my own company's products. See how that works?

You do need to know the failure rates experienced by other manufacturers to contextualise your knowledge, else - as there appears to be a 1:1 correlation between manufacturers you know something about and manufacturers you don't like - you merely appear to be suggesting that ignorance is bliss.

 

[Amaris]

You do need to know the failure rates experienced by other manufacturers to contextualise your knowledge, else - as there appears to be a 1:1 correlation between manufacturers you know something about and manufacturers you don't like - you merely appear to be suggesting that ignorance is bliss.

So you're saying for me not to recommend a DELL, even though I know the failure rates, the return levels, all of the numbers, and have lots of firsthand experience being in largest one of only two existing Dell Warranty repair centers (not a store, a warehouse/distribution/manufacturing center), I have to get ahold of my buddies who work at HP and IBM to toss their numbers in as well? That is both unrealistic and incorrect.

If a product performs poorly, you don't seek out other manufacturers to see if they're doing as poorly, you simply don't recommend the product. I can give you the total number of DELL laptops manufactured in a given year, and then I can tell you the failure rates and break it down into individual defect areas. You're telling me that's not enough.

You're in marketing, aren't you?

J.

 

[TrekkieMonster]

LALALALALALA *hands over ears* LALALALALALALA ....

Not listening to any bad Dell reports ....

LALALALALALA.

Seriously, I know I'm gambling here, but I figured I was gambling a bit no matter what I chose, and this model (the Studio 14z) literally had everything I wanted and none of the things I didn't want, and it was a really good price with my EPP.

I had a Dell laptop issued to me a few years ago, a model from the budget "Inspiron" line. Multiple hardware failures in the first 6-12 months. I bought an IBM ThinkPad T42 to replace it in mid-2005 and I'm still using it now, after being heavily upgraded and modded by me. It even survived having coffee spilled on it due to the drain system built into the keyboard.

I always find it very interesting, the different experiences people have. I had Dells (through work) over 9 + years and never had any significant issues with any of them. They were "retired" because our company had a deal with
Dell and had a 3 year rotation plan. Then the company went with IBM, and my last Latitude was replaced with a T42, and I have had nothing but trouble with it almost since day 1. It's been through 3 mother boards, 3 hard drives, 3 keyboards, 2 screens, 2 AC ports, at least 2 optical drives (and the one I have still doesn't work properly, but I just gave up.) And I swear, it wasn't anything I did to the machine that caused the problems.

Just weird.

I have a Dell laptop and i totally love the thing. No problems at all on my end.

THAT is good to hear.

 

[Amaris]

LALALALALALA *hands over ears* LALALALALALALA ....

Not listening to any bad Dell reports ....

LALALALALALA.

Seriously, I know I'm gambling here, but I figured I was gambling a bit no matter what I chose, and this model (the Studio 14z) literally had everything I wanted and none of the things I didn't want, and it was a really good price with my EPP.

I hope it works great for you, I really do.

I always find it very interesting, the different experiences people have. I had Dells (through work) over 9 + years and never had any significant issues with any of them. They were "retired" because our company had a deal with
Dell and had a 3 year rotation plan. Then the company went with IBM, and my last Latitude was replaced with a T42, and I have had nothing but trouble with it almost since day 1. It's been through 3 mother boards, 3 hard drives, 3 keyboards, 2 screens, 2 AC ports, at least 2 optical drives (and the one I have still doesn't work properly, but I just gave up.) And I swear, it wasn't anything I did to the machine that caused the problems.

Just weird.

I have the same experiences with IBM as Tim. Hell, there was one time my IBM T20 fell down two flights of stairs (we were in the process of moving). I picked it up, looked it over, turned it on, not a single problem. When I ran my computer repair business, most of my laptop repairs were Dell. Only once did I ever have an IBM or even a Compaq come into the shop. So yeah, it is interesting the different experiences we have like that.


J.

 

[Starbreaker]

I HATE Dell. They have a huge problem with batteries.

 

[CmdrAJD]

My Dell laptop battery died a few months ago. I've had the laptop for about two years and haven't had any issues with it (which is more than I can say for the XPS Desktop system I got from them at the same time) until this battery failure. Before ordering what I felt to be an overpriced battery, I did some research and found that the Dell batteries seem to have very short lifespans. Many people were complaining that their batteries were dead within a year. I ended up getting a different brand for about 1/6th the cost. So far, so good. As long as it lasts at least a year, I'll consider it money well spent.

As for Dell, after all of the problems I had with my desktop and then the laptop battery, I can't see myself buying anything from them again. I think the reaction I got when I took my desktop in to a computer store for repairs sums it up. The technician took one look at my box when I walked in the door and said, "I see your problem. It says 'Dell' on the side."

 

[Amaris]

I HATE Dell. They have a huge problem with batteries.

Well, in their defense, the Sony battery recall issue changed a lot of processes within the company. I had to deal with battery issues often, and from communications from various other facilities, found they were having the same problems.


J.

 

[Rii]

So you're saying for me not to recommend a DELL, even though I know the failure rates, the return levels, all of the numbers, and have lots of firsthand experience being in largest one of only two existing Dell Warranty repair centers (not a store, a warehouse/distribution/manufacturing center), I have to get ahold of my buddies who work at HP and IBM to toss their numbers in as well? That is both unrealistic and incorrect.

You can't conjure a laptop from thin air, you have to purchase it from one manufacturer or another, and those other manufacturers could have worse numbers than Dell does.

If a product performs poorly, you don't seek out other manufacturers to see if they're doing as poorly, you simply don't recommend the product.

The human body has a 100% failure rate coupled with high maintenance costs and no warranty, I strongly recommend against it.

Performance is a relative measure.

I can give you the total number of DELL laptops manufactured in a given year, and then I can tell you the failure rates and break it down into individual defect areas. You're telling me that's not enough.

It's not enough to constitute a persuasive argument, no.

You're in marketing, aren't you?

I'm so not.

 

[Amaris]

You can't conjure a laptop from thin air, you have to purchase it from one manufacturer or another, and those other manufacturers could have worse numbers than Dell does.

So you're saying because Dell isn't as bad as A or B manufacturer, I shouldn't tell people I don't recommend it. Instead, I should let them buy it so that when it does fail, I can say "Sorry, but at least it's not A or B, because those might have failed too."

The human body has a 100% failure rate, I strongly recommend against it.

Non sequitur.

It's not enough to constitute a persuasive argument, no.

It's not enough for you, and that's fine.

I'm so not.

Well then I'm stumped as to why you'd be making such an incorrect assumption. You are free to continue to assume as you do, and that's fine, but I do know what I'm talking about, and you don't know what I'm talking about. You don't know my experiences, you don't know my work history, all you know is what you think you know, and unfortunately, you are wrong this time.

J.

 

[kustirider2]

I HATE Dell. They have a huge problem with batteries.

Dell aren't the only ones. I used to own a Compaq Presario v2000 laptop, Which required a HP charger. I owned the laptop for approx. 2 1/2 years and in that time I ended up buying over 10 chargers 'cause they all burned out or the ends fell off.

 

[FordSVT]

Well then I'm stumped as to why you'd be making such an incorrect assumption. You are free to continue to assume as you do, and that's fine, but I do know what I'm talking about, and you don't know what I'm talking about. You don't know my experiences, you don't know my work history, all you know is what you think you know, and unfortunately, you are wrong this time.

J.

So when someone asks you what kind of laptop they should buy (instead of which one they shouldn't), what do you recommend?

I think maybe all Rii is getting at is the fact that sometimes when a person works in Customer Service or QC for a company, their perception of that company can become a bit skewed because they spend all day looking at the problems instead of the successes. I'm not doubting that you know Dell inside and out, but without knowing other companies equally as well, how can you with any confidence recommend another brand to someone? What if IBM's numbers are just as bad and you just don't know it? Counter to your argument about being confident in your assessment of Dell because of your experience with them, how confident could you be about the failure rates of other computer brands beyond the same anecdotal evidence and "PC World/Consumer Reports" articals the rest of us have to rely on?

 

[Rii]

You can't conjure a laptop from thin air, you have to purchase it from one manufacturer or another, and those other manufacturers could have worse numbers than Dell does.

So you're saying because Dell isn't as bad as A or B manufacturer

I don't know how bad Dell's products are relative to other manufacturers, the difference between you and I is that I'm not pretending that I do.

I shouldn't tell people I don't recommend it. Instead, I should let them buy it so that when it does fail, I can say "Sorry, but at least it's not A or B, because those might have failed too."

Or maybe it wouldn't fail and the laptop from another manufacturer would've. When you're dealing with the sample sizes that most consumers deal with, anything could happen.

The human body has a 100% failure rate, I strongly recommend against it.

Non sequitur.

Not at all. It's not a perfect analogy, granted. If I observe that incandescent light bulbs from manufacturer X are spectacularly inefficient, would it make sense for me to not recommend light bulbs from manufacturer X on that basis? Of course not, for the simple reason that everyone else's incandescent light bulbs are also spectacularly inefficient. One could make a compelling argument that the incandescent light bulb from any manufacturer is a poor product, but that's no reason to single out any particular manufacturer, and in any case they seem to have done quite well for themselves over the last century.

It's not enough to constitute a persuasive argument, no.

It's not enough for you, and that's fine.

It's not enough for anyone who isn't already inclined towards your position.

You are free to continue to assume as you do, and that's fine, but I do know what I'm talking about, and you don't know what I'm talking about. You don't know my experiences, you don't know my work history, all you know is what you think you know, and unfortunately, you are wrong this time.

I never claimed that I knew your work history, although I did ask earlier in this thread if you had similar experiences with other manufacturers from which to draw a meaningful comparison. I assumed that if you had you would've said so.

Lacking an appropriate context, your testimony is no more compelling than any of the other anecdotes presented here or in similar threads. Just to be clear, that's "not very".

 

[Amaris]

So when someone asks you what kind of laptop they should buy (instead of which one they shouldn't), what do you recommend?

I think maybe all Rii is getting at is the fact that sometimes when a person works in Customer Service or QC for a company, their perception of that company can become a bit skewed because they spend all day looking at the problems instead of the successes. I'm not doubting that you know Dell inside and out, but without knowing other companies equally as well, how can you with any confidence recommend another brand to someone? What if IBM's numbers are just as bad and you just don't know it? Counter to your argument about being confident in your assessment of Dell because of your experience with them, how confident could you be about the failure rates of other computer brands beyond the same anecdotal evidence and "PC World/Consumer Reports" articals the rest of us have to rely on?

That's the issue. I'm not recommending Dell because of what I have seen and what I can tell you. What I'm NOT doing is telling you Dell is worse than everybody else. That is the difference here.

However, from my experiences working as a PC repair technician (running my own business), I can say that the best experiences I had were with HP laptops. I had many failed Dells in my shop, a Compaq or two, some Sony laptops, and a couple of HP laptops, too.

I don't know how bad Dell's products are relative to other manufacturers, the difference between you and I is that I'm not pretending that I do.

The key words here are "relative to other manufacturers". I'm sure you'll now show me where I said that every other manufacturer is better than Dell. You can't, because all I have have said about Dell is specific to Dell.

Or maybe it wouldn't fail and the laptop from another manufacturer would've. When you're dealing with the sample sizes that most consumers deal with, anything could happen.

Where have I said no other laptops would fail? Where have I said Dell laptops always fail? You have been making assumptions this whole time, and are using generalities to codify specifics. Your arguments make no sense at all in the context of this thread or my responses. It's as if you're having an argument with your own ideas of what I've been saying rather than reading what I'm actually saying.

Not at all. It's not a perfect analogy, granted. If I observe that incandescent light bulbs from manufacturer X are spectacularly inefficient, would it make sense for me to not recommend light bulbs from manufacturer X on that basis? Of course not, for the simple reason that everyone else's incandescent light bulbs are also spectacularly inefficient.

Your analogy is terribly flawed. It is a given that laptops fail. The difference is the rate of failure. If a brand of incandescent bulb fails frequently, I would recommend not purchasing that brand of incandescent bulb. Whether that bulb is better or worse than another brand, it is known that the brand of bulb has a high failure rate.

It's not enough for anyone who doesn't already share your views.

Really? Where have I shouted anyone down or rebuked someone for having a good experience with their Dell laptop?

I never claimed that I knew your work history, although I did ask earlier in this thread if you had similar experiences with other manufacturers from which to draw a meaningful comparison. I assumed that if you had that you would've said so.

Lacking an appropriate context, your testimony is no more compelling than any of the other anecdotes presented here or in similar threads. Just to be clear, that's "not very".

What you have done is turn a very minor difference of opinion into an argument. You've taken words and ideas I haven't used and have attempted to make an argument from them. I have been very specific in my answers regarding Dell, and I'm not comparing other manufacturers because I'm only speaking about the performance rate of one: Dell.

J.

 

[Rii]

Where have I said no other laptops would fail? Where have I said Dell laptops always fail? You have been making assumptions this whole time, and are using generalities to codify specifics. Your arguments make no sense at all in the context of this thread or my responses. It's as if you're having an argument with your own ideas of what I've been saying rather than reading what I'm actually saying.

My assumption was that you actually had a point with your original statement at all. Instead I could apparently assemble a group of warranty techs from each of the various computer manufacturers, have them each offer the testimony that "lots of our shit breaks, yo", and bring the retail computer industry to a halt overnight.

You're correct in that I don't actually care how reliable Dell's laptops may or may not be, though.

It is a given that laptops fail. The difference is the rate of failure.

Everything fails, it's shorthand.

If a brand of incandescent bulb fails frequently, I would recommend not purchasing that brand of incandescent bulb. Whether that bulb is better or worse than another brand, it is known that the brand of bulb has a high failure rate.

So how do you judge what constitutes a high failure rate for an incandescent light globe? Do you judge it by the half-life of plutonium? Or do you judge it, at least in part, by its rate of failure with respect to other incandescent light globes?

What you have done is turn a very minor difference of opinion into an argument.

I know, isn't it fun?

 

[Koinek]

I have a Dell laptop and i totally love the thing. No problems at all on my end.

Agreed. My Dell has been happily chugging along for about 3-4 years now. I think at least some of these Dell bad experiences are usually holdovers from the pre-1505 (grey-white) era. The 1505 series was a huge step forward for Dell with looks, reliability and affordability.

 

[Crusher Disciple]

I HATE Dell. They have a huge problem with batteries.

Dell aren't the only ones. I used to own a Compaq Presario v2000 laptop, Which required a HP charger. I owned the laptop for approx. 2 1/2 years and in that time I ended up buying over 10 chargers 'cause they all burned out or the ends fell off.

I have 2 hand me downs Compaq notebooks. The XP workhorse is over 4 years old and my dad cannot figure out why I still use it. He keeps looking at me like I'm crazy and reminding me how old it is. But it's a widescreen and I like it.

The other one is a Compaq running Vista. I think the battery conked out after less than 2 years. The computer can't recognize it, period. I just keep it plugged in all the time, even if I'm going to do some personal stuff at work.

If all else fails, I bought a Macbook, but I treat that little guy with kid gloves. And I carry it to hipster film festivals so I can fit in with the rest of the emo crowd.

 

[Amaris]

Where have I said no other laptops would fail? Where have I said Dell laptops always fail? You have been making assumptions this whole time, and are using generalities to codify specifics. Your arguments make no sense at all in the context of this thread or my responses. It's as if you're having an argument with your own ideas of what I've been saying rather than reading what I'm actually saying.

My assumption was that you actually had a point with your original statement at all. Instead I could apparently assemble a group of warranty techs from each of the various computer manufacturers, have them each offer the testimony that "lots of our shit breaks, yo", and bring the retail computer industry to a halt overnight.

You're correct in that I don't actually care how reliable Dell's laptops may or may not be, though.

It is a given that laptops fail. The difference is the rate of failure.

Everything fails, it's shorthand.

If a brand of incandescent bulb fails frequently, I would recommend not purchasing that brand of incandescent bulb. Whether that bulb is better or worse than another brand, it is known that the brand of bulb has a high failure rate.

So how do you judge what constitutes a high failure rate for an incandescent light globe? Do you judge it by the half-life of plutonium? Or do you judge it, at least in part, by its rate of failure with respect to other incandescent light globes?

What you have done is turn a very minor difference of opinion into an argument.

I know, isn't it fun?

Nevermind.

I'm not even going to bother discussing this with you anymore.
You've turned what was a nice little discussion between several posters into an exasperating debate with you because you have to have a problem with something I say that doesn't even concern you.

J.

 

[Tomato]

^

You shouldn't

I got a XPS M1210. So far no problems their customer service on the other hand. Back story bought a warranty which said (bumper to bumper or all inclusive). Thinking that meant battery too and I couldn't/didn't see any find print at time of buying thought so. Long story short I got ripped off $300 by buying the stupid warranty. Lesson learned never ever buying warranty stuff again.

Big Question. Will I buy Dell again? Don't really know to be honest. I do have a person which I call to deal with stuff and like the fact I can semi negotiate. So Dell would be at the top of my list of buying a computer. I will probably do research and all and see how they spec out. Call and try to neogtiate for an extra battery or something.

 

[Amaris]

^

You shouldn't

I got a XPS M1210. So far no problems their customer service on the other hand. Back story bought a warranty which said (bumper to bumper or all inclusive). Thinking that meant battery too and I couldn't/didn't see any find print at time of buying thought so. Long story short I got ripped off $300 by buying the stupid warranty. Lesson learned never ever buying warranty stuff again.

Big Question. Will I buy Dell again? Don't really know to be honest. I do have a person which I call to deal with stuff and like the fact I can semi negotiate. So Dell would be at the top of my list of buying a computer. I will probably do research and all and see how they spec out. Call and try to neogtiate for an extra battery or something.

They're supposed to tell you when you order it that the bumper to bumper doesn't include the battery. If they ever say it does, they're lying or they just don't know. They are pushed to sell those.

J.

 

[Captain Shaw]

I HATE Dell. They have a huge problem with batteries.

Dell aren't the only ones. I used to own a Compaq Presario v2000 laptop, Which required a HP charger. I owned the laptop for approx. 2 1/2 years and in that time I ended up buying over 10 chargers 'cause they all burned out or the ends fell off.

My advent does the same at the moment i am waiting for the IT shop to get it's shipment of charges in so i can buy yet another new one.