So, I made this.
- Thread starter Professor Moriarty
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I'll cast a vote for making the exterior big enough to fit the interiors as they were depicted.
And what you're doing is great, really amazing.
And what you're doing is great, really amazing.
It's not quite baked yet--there's something weird going on with the camera movement for the background stars that I haven't quite nailed down yet, and I haven't fixed some issues with the hangar deck--but it's far enough along I thought I'd share it and get some C&C.
Vimeo:
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Vimeo:
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Very nice.
Quibbles (since you asked).
The sudden stopping of the camera relative to the Enterprise feels really jarring. And the rotation of the starfield doesn't match the camera move.
At the end of the last shot the camera creeps to the starboard side, breaking the directional continuity of the ship pointing to screen left.
Quibbles (since you asked).
The sudden stopping of the camera relative to the Enterprise feels really jarring. And the rotation of the starfield doesn't match the camera move.
At the end of the last shot the camera creeps to the starboard side, breaking the directional continuity of the ship pointing to screen left.
Yeah, the camera movement definitely needs some finessing, and like I said the stars aren't quite matching the movement in any event. I'm not quite sure I follow your comment on directional continuity--the camera is tracking with the shuttle as it blasts out of the hangar deck, so by far the most noticeable movement is along the minus Z axis.
Pardon if I get didactic here.
EDIT: I just added a lengthier and more detailed version of this post to the Fan Filmmakers Primer (link).
Directional continuity is a cinematography rule most self-taught filmmakers don't understand. It means objects traveling towards a destination maintain a general direction—say screen left or screen right—as they travel.
Think of the Death Star trench. The fighters all point/travel from screen right to screen left throughout the sequence, or camera neutral (straight at or away from the camera). If you suddenly cut to a shot where one of them was traveling even slightly towards screen right, it would appear the ship had turned around, or it was a new fighter going the opposite way. This is all over movies and TV shows (autos driving in cities not so much because cities are mazes and we assume cars make turns to follow the streets).
In movies, one convention is that flying screen left generally means "west" and screen right means "east" (think of a map).
Star Trek II gives a comprehensive example of how to both maintain directional continuity and when to switch it around to show the ship has changed course or destination (and it messes it up once):
- The Enterprise resolutely points screen left from the stock footage through its encounter with the Reliant.
- But, whups, when the ship arrives as Regula I it's inexplicably heading screen right. Since it never changed course, that's a boo-boo.
- When the ship heads for the nebula it heading screen right. As the Reliant pursues, it too follows towards screen right.
- Within the nebula we see the Enterprise from above, angled down and right, then it curves around from a screen right facing to screen left, which it maintains until...
- The ship turns around to try to escape the nebula, heading screen right again all the way through its "Go Sulu" warp drive climax.
- The final shot has the ship leaving the Genesis planet heading screen left again, suggesting it has again set a new course.
Likewise, since "run away" is to screen left, and the danger is to screen right, even when inside the hangar deck the nose of the starship ought to always be pointed screen left or absolutely camera neutral, and the shuttle should point screen right towards the danger Decker's gonna head into.
Hope that makes sense!
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@Professor Moriarty - It's looking pretty amazing already
Just some comments that I hope you find useful
At 0:16, the camera movement appears (for me anyway) to arrest the Enterprise's forward movement and go in reverse. Perhaps adding in background cues around the Enterprise like stars moving (ala TOS effects) or space debris/rubble consistently whizzing by to maintain the illusion of forward movement?
At 0:22 is where the camera direction changes from screen right to screen left which is I think what Maurice is commenting on.
Nice detail that you have the warp nacelles offline.
At 0:18 the edge wear on the doors and lip of the flight deck are too deep giving the impression that we're looking at a small model instead of a large ship. I recommend removing that entirely at this camera distance...
At 0:34 when the Winfield escapes, the Enterprise looks like she is stopped in space. I suggest adding in background movement around the ship like rubble flying by to maintain the illusion that the Enterprise is still moving.
I forgot to mention, your animation made my friday
Just some comments that I hope you find useful
At 0:16, the camera movement appears (for me anyway) to arrest the Enterprise's forward movement and go in reverse. Perhaps adding in background cues around the Enterprise like stars moving (ala TOS effects) or space debris/rubble consistently whizzing by to maintain the illusion of forward movement?
At 0:22 is where the camera direction changes from screen right to screen left which is I think what Maurice is commenting on.
Nice detail that you have the warp nacelles offline.
At 0:18 the edge wear on the doors and lip of the flight deck are too deep giving the impression that we're looking at a small model instead of a large ship. I recommend removing that entirely at this camera distance...
At 0:34 when the Winfield escapes, the Enterprise looks like she is stopped in space. I suggest adding in background movement around the ship like rubble flying by to maintain the illusion that the Enterprise is still moving.
I forgot to mention, your animation made my friday
Your feedback and @Maurice 's are exactly what I'm looking for--thanks!
In particular, now that I'm letting the camera get really close to (or go inside of) the Enterprise I'm noticing material scaling issues like what you pointed out (the wear-and-tear on the doors and the edge of the fantail) all over the ship.
Working on the Galileo II and the Winfield have made me acutely aware of this problem--the shuttles are something human-scaled, so the wear and tear on them is appropriately scaled. But that's when I realized that the same degree of roughness around the edges was being used all over the Enterprise and Constellation, but at starship scale. Those pits in the metal on the edge of the fantail would be the size of Manhattan potholes! 
Obviously I'm going to have to go back and adjust some things.
ETA: I just realized something else about the animation: When we first see the Winfield, Decker has already prematurely lifted her off the rising turntable elevator and has already started twisting her around to point towards the clamshell hangar doors. I know that's what he's doing, but it's not something immediately apparent to the audience. From the audience POV, it almost looks like I've made an animation mistake and have positioned the Winfield about a meter above the elevator, because both are moving upward at about the same speed by the time we see them. I think I need to revise the timing of the early liftoff so that you can see the Winfield still on the elevator for a split second. Either that, or put in an insert shot from a different angle (perhaps from the POV of the lower maintenance bay, watching the elevator rising from below?) hmmm...
ETA #2: Re directional continuity, I already have a general sense of how I'm blocking out the episode, and I'm still not seeing how I've violated this principle:
In particular, now that I'm letting the camera get really close to (or go inside of) the Enterprise I'm noticing material scaling issues like what you pointed out (the wear-and-tear on the doors and the edge of the fantail) all over the ship.
Working on the Galileo II and the Winfield have made me acutely aware of this problem--the shuttles are something human-scaled, so the wear and tear on them is appropriately scaled. But that's when I realized that the same degree of roughness around the edges was being used all over the Enterprise and Constellation, but at starship scale. Those pits in the metal on the edge of the fantail would be the size of Manhattan potholes! Obviously I'm going to have to go back and adjust some things.
ETA: I just realized something else about the animation: When we first see the Winfield, Decker has already prematurely lifted her off the rising turntable elevator and has already started twisting her around to point towards the clamshell hangar doors. I know that's what he's doing, but it's not something immediately apparent to the audience. From the audience POV, it almost looks like I've made an animation mistake and have positioned the Winfield about a meter above the elevator, because both are moving upward at about the same speed by the time we see them. I think I need to revise the timing of the early liftoff so that you can see the Winfield still on the elevator for a split second. Either that, or put in an insert shot from a different angle (perhaps from the POV of the lower maintenance bay, watching the elevator rising from below?) hmmm...
ETA #2: Re directional continuity, I already have a general sense of how I'm blocking out the episode, and I'm still not seeing how I've violated this principle:
- Heading towards danger will always be oriented left-to-right from our POV (i.e., when the Enterprise is heading into System L-374 and towards the planet killer, she will be flying left-to-right like she did in all 79 episodes.)
- Fleeing from danger will always be oriented right-to-left from our POV. In this scene, the Enterprise is fleeing the planet killer, so she's flying left-to-right. Decker is committing suicide, so he's flying towards the danger (i.e., the opposite direction the ship is going).
- At 0:22 the camera doesn't actually move on the X-axis to starboard in that final shot; the Winfield is in a banking climb to port. Are you suggesting that the problem is that it's the fact the camera is positioned slightly to port to begin with?
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Am I being the jerk that doesn't go back and read a bunch of previous posts here? Maybe.
This is excellent work. And I agree with all the above notes. But is it not incredibly jarring for anyone else seeing through the space between clamshell doors (one left of center)!?
This is excellent work. And I agree with all the above notes. But is it not incredibly jarring for anyone else seeing through the space between clamshell doors (one left of center)!?
I felt that, too. It was discussed earlier in the thread, the doors have to reposition themselves slightly before they can begin to slide past each other. It might just be helped by not having it happen at the same moment as the camera jerking to a stop, but it could also need some extra business to make it clear what's going on and it's not some kind of animation error. Maybe flashing lights along the edge of the panel before it starts moving, or some visible atmosphere escaping through the gap.
In short, you let the camera cross the centerline of the ship so the Enterprise goes from a screen left facing to a screen right one... from which it never quite recovers.
All you have to do is change the camera move so that is doesn't cross the center axis and the ship will maintain its "run away" direction and the shuttle will always be pointed towards the pursuing offscreen danger camera right, and at the end of the shot the starship would still be maintaining a general screen left bearing (or at least camera neutral).
Right now this only works-ish because this is a single shot with a camera in motion. If this were done with cuts it would cross the line because the ship's heading would switch from leftwards to rightwards.
Ideally, camera moves are "motivated". There's no good reason for the camera to cross this center axis here.
All you have to do is change the camera move so that is doesn't cross the center axis and the ship will maintain its "run away" direction and the shuttle will always be pointed towards the pursuing offscreen danger camera right, and at the end of the shot the starship would still be maintaining a general screen left bearing (or at least camera neutral).
Right now this only works-ish because this is a single shot with a camera in motion. If this were done with cuts it would cross the line because the ship's heading would switch from leftwards to rightwards.
Ideally, camera moves are "motivated". There's no good reason for the camera to cross this center axis here.
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Oh, I'd seen enough of the thread to know the reason, yeah, the trouble is that at that moment in time and with that angle, it looks like a mistake, as though the centerline isn't opening, but rather the doors are opening from one clamshell over, and then when the middle starts opening, it really solidifies that impression. As though a mistake was caught mid-animation, and then fixed in the middle, which is of course not how that works, but it's what it comes across as. The angle is certainly a big part of that, as is the fact that the hull is dark while the lights inside are on blast!
If the camera was dead center, or far enough to the side, I don't think it'd look so odd, or likewise, if the interior lights were cheated as not so bright (or off) until we see the view when the middle opens.
Not trying to nitpick here. It's often the case that realism gets in the way of perceived realism, so while hearing all four feet of the mumakil would be more accurate, the audience questions the cacophony and responds much better to hearing only two footfalls, if you'll indulge my cross-franchise analogy.
You're welcome @Professor Moriarty
Hmm watching that again I see where it could be mistaken for an error. What if you have the Winfield pop-up from the elevator opening without waiting for the elevator to catch up? Make it look like Decker is breaking all the rules?
I think Maurice summed it up very well about crossing the centerline but it is sorta okay because it was a single camera move rather than a cut. Still if you don't have to cross the centerline I agree it would look better, IMHO.
When I saw the shuttlebay doors parting I subconsciously knew what it was doing and didn't think anything of it but now seeing comments I agree that it could look like an error if you didn't know what it was doing. You could have maybe a close-up showing the mechanism lifting the door up so it is obvious as to what it is doing or maybe try a different angle where it is more obvious to how it connects to the top part?
As to the directional continuity I had avoided commenting on that since I figured you were going to re-render all the external space scenes. But if you look at the original FX from the episode you'll see the directional continuity changes at key points to fit the flow of the battle and relative positions of the Enterprise and DDM or Constellation so I do hope you stay flexible and account for the position changes.
Notes below:
Hmm watching that again I see where it could be mistaken for an error. What if you have the Winfield pop-up from the elevator opening without waiting for the elevator to catch up? Make it look like Decker is breaking all the rules?
I think Maurice summed it up very well about crossing the centerline but it is sorta okay because it was a single camera move rather than a cut. Still if you don't have to cross the centerline I agree it would look better, IMHO.
When I saw the shuttlebay doors parting I subconsciously knew what it was doing and didn't think anything of it but now seeing comments I agree that it could look like an error if you didn't know what it was doing. You could have maybe a close-up showing the mechanism lifting the door up so it is obvious as to what it is doing or maybe try a different angle where it is more obvious to how it connects to the top part?
As to the directional continuity I had avoided commenting on that since I figured you were going to re-render all the external space scenes. But if you look at the original FX from the episode you'll see the directional continuity changes at key points to fit the flow of the battle and relative positions of the Enterprise and DDM or Constellation so I do hope you stay flexible and account for the position changes.
Notes below:
- Almost all of the Enterprise bridge shots have the main screen on screen right or neutral.
- All the shuttle interiors as viewed from the side have the front on screen left.
- All the Constellation Aux Control scenes have the view screen on screen left.
- The Enterprise when initially running away from the DDM they are both flying screen left-to-screen right.
- The Enterprise when Decker takes over and chases the DDM they are both flying screen left-to-screen right.
- Constellation at this point is facing screen left.
- DDM has turned to engage Enterprise and is now flying screen right-to-screen left.
- Enterprise continues to fly from screen left-to-screen right.
- Constellation begins to move and is flying screen left-to-screen right.
- Enterprise breaks free with Constellation's help and takes an evasive course back to Constellation.
- Enterprise is flying screen left-to-screen right.
- Constellation is flying screen right-to-screen left.
- Shuttle escapes and in aft view drifts to screen right.
- Shuttle flies screen right-to-screen left.
- DDM flies screen left-to-screen right.
- Constellation flies screen right-to-screen left.
- DDM is flying screen left-to-screen right.
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If I had to do a remake of the episode....instead of going mad...which he pulled off brilliantly, I might have the actor in a sphinx type Sternbach shuttle do as the other Furion from Chronicles of Riddick and burn in the glass cockpit without reacting at all as he nears the super-hot core:
It was a frame near this one that was used as the "skin" that was wrapped around the head of the Decker modelI love your work. It would be neat to more clearly see Matt Decker's head in the Shuttlecraft window:
Unfortunately, my human-modeling skills are still rudimentary at best; the Decker model doesn't stand up to close scrutiny and is in fact nightmare fuel when viewed from certain angles!
A suggestive glance is about all that I will be able to manage for now.So I've rescaled the interiors for a 1080-foot-long Enterprise and I've shortened the hangar deck so that the observation area is no longer punctured by the warp nacelle struts (before, the struts entered the hull in front of the cargo doors). It definitely looks shorter, but I think there's still enough room that it doesn't feel too cramped. I also changed the cargo deck doors--there are now two sets, and they're glass so that you can peek into the cargo area. Not sure if I'll keep that.
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