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So I finally caught up with Lost

Seven of Five

I'm beginning to thnk I can cure a rainy day!
Premium Member
Not a major deal for you guys I know but it's been a hell of a ride for me for a few months now. My head is still woozy from all of the constant shocks, twists, deaths, births, flashbacks, flashforwards and what have you. It's been such a compelling series that I wonder why I left it so late to get into it. Oh well, better late than never.

I suppose watching it on DVD has been a bit of a cheat as I haven't really had much of a delay between watching episodes. Except for season 4, where I had to wait a whole 3 weeks (ha!) before I could buy it after finishing season 3. What a state to get in, I've had to be very patient to watch BSG!

I totally love it anyway. Well, except for Jack and Kate really. :devil:
 
I totally love it anyway. Well, except for Jack and Kate really. :devil:

It's really funny because those are the first two characters most people connected with early on and now they're the two characters most people can't stand, especially Kate.
 
I totally love it anyway. Well, except for Jack and Kate really. :devil:

It's really funny because those are the first two characters most people connected with early on and now they're the two characters most people can't stand, especially Kate.

Interesting. I don't post in here much at all and I am always behind so am really picky about the threads I read (I don't want to be spoiled). Therefore, I really don't know what 'most people' think.

I'm pretty much okay with Jack at this point, but I'm over Kate. And to be honest, there are days when I'm over Locke too. I would imagine if Jack is unpopular, Locke is probably very popular around here. But toward the end of season 3, he really started getting on my nerves. I found him to be very selfish, at times - doing stuff that effected everyone in very unilateral decisions, simply because he wanted to fulfill his own vision for himself.

Not saying what he did didn't make the show more interesting. But it's hard for me to like a guy who makes decisions for everyone else in a way that gives them no choice whatever (blowing up the sub, for example, eliminated that possibility, not only for himself, but for everyone else).

Jack makes alot of decisions, but he makes most of them in ways that give people a choice - follow him or not, but he never cuts people off from other choices as a way of forcing them to do things his way. Locke does that alot, and it's getting annoying. :lol:

Jack certainly has his flaws and there are moments when he's not high on my list either (in truth, Sayid, Desmond, Juliet, and Sawyer are probably my favorite characters). But post submarine blow-up, I starting liking Locke alot less than I did during the first 2 1/2 seasons.

But then, I'm still watching season 4, so who knows? That might change by the end of it.
 
Yay! I just did the same recently, finished Lost in 3 weeks! What a ride, congrats. It is a really great show isn't it.
 
At the start of the show Kate was awesome because it SEEMED like she was a mysterious secret government agent assassin. Turns out the truth was horrifically lame :p
 
PKTrekGirl, I think that since the sub blow-up most viewers have felt the same way as you about Locke. But I feel like we as the audience have more insight to what's going on with him than he does. When he first got to the island he was so elated at his new circumstances, it became a very spiritual thing and although people on the island thought he was weird, he wasn't a jerk to anyone. In about the 3rd season he started to lose his way spiritually...felt like maybe he was wrong about the island, maybe he wasn't following the right path like he believed, and basically he was just lost. This impaired his judgement and caused him to do a lot of things that he thought were right but really weren't. He lost focus. So while I never hated his character, I was irritated with many of the choices he was making. I think a lot of people probably felt a similar way.

Kate is so annoying to me, always has been from the beginning. I think most people love Sayid and Desmond. A lot of people here love Juliet, but I cannot stand her. She is my least favorite character, by far. I think the actress is really awful. She has one facial expression, one monotone voice level, ugh, just can't stand watching her.

Jack is an interesting one. At first, everyone liked him. Then around the second and third seasons he became more annoying and people liked him a lot less. At the end of season 3 we started to like him more again, though he probably wasn't anyone's favorite character.

I've tried to keep out anything in season 4 and beyond, so once you get caught up you should start a thread about this subject to see where things lie then.
 
I totally love it anyway. Well, except for Jack and Kate really. :devil:

It's really funny because those are the first two characters most people connected with early on and now they're the two characters most people can't stand, especially Kate.

I disliked both from the start. Jack has really grown as a character - from a sullen idiot who was a poor choice as the group's leader into, well he's still sullen and self-pitying, but he's much more sympathetic now that we know why he's so frakked up what with the daddy issues and the addiction problems. He consistently tries to rise above his limitations and although he might go into periods of funk, he'll snap out of it and get back to his frenetic attempts to save everyone.

Kate, tho - lost cause.

Other than Jack, Sawyer's the character who has grown the most. Both have become great characters as a result.

I'm pretty much okay with Jack at this point, but I'm over Kate. And to be honest, there are days when I'm over Locke too. I would imagine if Jack is unpopular, Locke is probably very popular around here. But toward the end of season 3, he really started getting on my nerves. I found him to be very selfish, at times - doing stuff that effected everyone in very unilateral decisions, simply because he wanted to fulfill his own vision for himself.
Locke is a very internally driven character, so I understand his selfishness. He's the opposite of Jack, who can't stand himself, and must be outward focused (trying to save everyone) to avoid going into depression and addiction when he's "left alone with himself." They're both interesting in their own ways.

Jack makes alot of decisions, but he makes most of them in ways that give people a choice - follow him or not, but he never cuts people off from other choices as a way of forcing them to do things his way. Locke does that alot, and it's getting annoying.
Because Jack's goal is to save people, and you can't coerce people into being saved - he wants them to say yes, Jack, please save me. But Locke doesn't care about the other people at all. He has his goal and people are a means of getting there.

This is a good example of how on-target the characterizations are in this show, even when they're subtle. I'd never really thought about the difference between Jack and Locke in their inwardness and outwardness till you pointed out their behavior pattern.
 
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PKTrekGirl, I think that since the sub blow-up most viewers have felt the same way as you about Locke. But I feel like we as the audience have more insight to what's going on with him than he does. When he first got to the island he was so elated at his new circumstances, it became a very spiritual thing and although people on the island thought he was weird, he wasn't a jerk to anyone. In about the 3rd season he started to lose his way spiritually...felt like maybe he was wrong about the island, maybe he wasn't following the right path like he believed, and basically he was just lost. This impaired his judgement and caused him to do a lot of things that he thought were right but really weren't. He lost focus. So while I never hated his character, I was irritated with many of the choices he was making. I think a lot of people probably felt a similar way.

Kate is so annoying to me, always has been from the beginning. I think most people love Sayid and Desmond. A lot of people here love Juliet, but I cannot stand her. She is my least favorite character, by far. I think the actress is really awful. She has one facial expression, one monotone voice level, ugh, just can't stand watching her.

Jack is an interesting one. At first, everyone liked him. Then around the second and third seasons he became more annoying and people liked him a lot less. At the end of season 3 we started to like him more again, though he probably wasn't anyone's favorite character.

I've tried to keep out anything in season 4 and beyond, so once you get caught up you should start a thread about this subject to see where things lie then.

Thanks for responding to my post, Spot's Meow! :)

It made me feel a bit less off-base than I did before you posted. I pretty much agree with everything you said.

I mean, I don't really dislike Locke as it's obvious that he is an important key to the island (or, at least he is midway through season 4, which is where I am ATM). But yeah - even though in some ways Locke was actually right, I found myself 'siding' with Jack, just because of the way Locke did things with those unilateral decisions - like killing Naomi, for example. Or blowing up the sub. You don't want off the island? Fine. Go on your way and don't leave. But don't cut off the possibility for everyone else. Because at the time he did those things, he had no real way of knowing whether they were even right or wrong for himself, let alone everyone else. :lol: Because yeah - he was even questioning himself alot at the time. So why do things that cut off possibilities completely?

I liked Kate okay at the beginning. She was never my favorite character or anything, but I liked her during season 1 when they were revealing some of her flashbacks. I thought she would turn out to be alot more interesting than she ended up being. But in the end, she really was just a criminal. :lol: Which was not interesting at all.

And yeah, it would be hard not to like Sayid and Desmond. They are probably my two favorite characters - probably for the same reasons as everyone else would post: count on Covert Ops Sayid to watch their backs, ever-vigilent and 'uniquely talented' as he is. And Desmond....well, the guy would have no luck at all if it wasn't for bad luck, but he's such a nice guy that it's hard not to root for him.

But I like Sawyer alot (especially as time went on and he got a bit less predatory toward the other survivors) - he's got spunk and adds some good comic relief to the show as well (definitly, Josh Holloway has the best lines on the show - by FAR! :lol: ). And being from the south, I was happy to see them writing a southern bad-ass character as a reasonably intelligent bad-ass character, rather than as just a dumb hillbilly redneck. They did some things with him (like, all the reading he does, for example) that made you believe there are alot more 'layers' to him than 'angry con-man'.

And Juliet? Well, I thought she could have been alot more forthcoming with Jack and alot nicer to Kate and Sawyer during their captivity in season 3. But overall, I like her. Especially once she was more firmly entrenched with the survivors - from the end of season 3 onward.

I'm actually fairly sympathetic toward Jack. He definitely lets his temper and/or his personal control issues get the better of him sometimes. But at the end of the day, he is a pretty good leader and his heart is in the right place most of the time. He has certainly made his share of mistakes and he does have some blind spots. But then, he didn't really ASK for the job of leader in such a trying situation. It got thrust upon him because he was the only one who was willing, at first, to stand up to guys like Sawyer when Sawyer was being a genuine ass. Gotta admire the guy for that, anyway. :)

Anyway, thanks for chatting with me - I'm behind, so it's hard to find people to chat with about LOST. :)
 
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What did you think she was? In her first flashback episode she's being hunted by the authorities and is an expert at fake identities and also a combat expert it seems like. She came off a lot more badass then it turns out she was really was. She was an expert fugitive for all those years... yet on the Island she runs off and gets captured every other episode :D
 
Oooh, replies!

I never liked Jack and Kate from the offset. Well, maybe the first two or three episodes weren't so bad, when everyone was first finding their feet (Locke literally). I just wasn't that engrossed with their respective storylines from the start, both on-island and off. Jack as a leader is one thing I had a contention with - Sayid I could have got onboard with! Someone with world-weary experience who doesn't trust anyone would really have come in handy during some of Jack's weakest moment. His dead, drunk Dad wasn't very exciting either, well, until season 4 say.

And Kate? Ugh, what a waste. I hate how she swings her affections from Jack to Sawyer every other episode, and her background has definately been the most soap opera-esque. There were a few flashbacks that made me dislike her, yet other characters would continue to fawn over her! :lol:

But besides those two, I think the ensemble is brilliant. Desmond really fascinates and I love his relationship with Penny. Him chasing her, her chasing him, it's all very sweet. Sun and Jin also totally rock. Clare, Charlie and the baybee too - ah, those were the days... :)
 
Jack as a leader is one thing I had a contention with - Sayid I could have got onboard with! Someone with world-weary experience who doesn't trust anyone would really have come in handy during some of Jack's weakest moment.
But Jack is a white male American doctor - the "obvious" authority figure for most of the Losties. While Sayid used to torture people for his boss, Saddam Hussein. ;)

...yeah I was aware of the irony of the situation (and the writers wanted us to be aware of it) that objectively speaking, Sayid was the better natural leader.

In S1 particularly, there was a lot of screwing around with stereotypes. The big fat guy who says duuuude a lot is a multi-millionaire. The stupid racist redneck is intelligent and perceptive. The meek Korean lady is iron willed and another natural leader. The knife-weilding bald guy who everyone suspects was a CIA assassin or something is a nonentity who used to be confined to a wheelchair. The druggie rock star is highly religious. etc etc.
 
What did you think she was? In her first flashback episode she's being hunted by the authorities and is an expert at fake identities and also a combat expert it seems like. She came off a lot more badass then it turns out she was really was. She was an expert fugitive for all those years... yet on the Island she runs off and gets captured every other episode :D
I don't remember thinking that she was anything other than a criminal on the run, and as far as I know, everyone else thought the same thing.
 
The thing that annoys me about Kate so much is that she seems like a 12 year-old.
How many times has she said "I'm going with you." when someone leaves the beach for some reason? I'm currently watching season 2 for the second time and I'd guess it's already been about 7 or 8 times.
Jack seems to well up with tears at the drop of a hat. Put him and Kate together and we get a mtual appreciation society. Also, how many times have we heard Jack yell "Where's Kate?!" and her yell "Where's Jack?!" :rolleyes:

I agree about Locke(despite my avatar!)...he has that spiritual side in the first and second season, then he becomes more unlikable.

Watching Lost the second time i got to see that Sawyer wasn't as much of ajerk as I and many others thought and that Sayid seems pretty darned reasonable.
 
Watching Lost the second time i got to see that Sawyer wasn't as much of ajerk as I and many others thought and that Sayid seems pretty darned reasonable.

I agree with this statement. IMO, Sawyer is one of the chief characters who has really experienced some personal growth as a result of being on that island. He's really chilled alot since season 1, and is not nearly as predatory as he once was. I'm in the middle of season 4, and he is actually pretty doggone likable at this point.

And Sayid...well, I think it's one of the intentional ironies of the show that the Republican Guard Interrogator/Torturer is turning out to be the most reasonable, mature, and emotionally balanced person on the entire island. :lol:
 
Aww, Sawyer is cuddly now! :lol: Something I never thought would we true of hime way back when. My favourite period of Sawyer was in season 3 where he had escaped from the Others, and Hurley was trying to fashion him into a replacement leader. It was hilarious, and at the same time his respect for other Losties grew. It was great. And Kate and Jack were on the other side of the island! ;)
 
Locke is one of those situations where I wouldn't trust him if I was on the island, but he is a great a character. When I rewatched the first season two years ago I was struck by how underhanded he was being by trying to make alliances with the other Losties, such as helping Charlie with his addiction, or helping Sawyer kill the boar, or building a crib for Claire, or taking Boone under his wing. He was trying to get people to trust him so that they would eventually side with him when he tells them they must not leave the island. Boone's death and Locke's insistence that it was a sacrifice that the island demanded destroyed his credibility with the survivors so he started taking things into his own hands.

I thought his character became rather boring in season 2 and I found "Henry Gale" and Mr Eko to be far more interesting. Ever since season 3 he has been getting better and better and it doesn't matter that I don't trust him, he is my favourite character because he is the most interesting.

Jack, Kate and Sawyer didn't interest me because most of their scenes were with one another. It wasn't until season 2 when Sawyer spent time with Michael, Jin and the Tailies that I found myself liking him. When Jack started spending more time away from Kate I also found him interesting. Kate is a dead weight who has done nothing but drag down two other characters who would be far better served by not having her in the show.
 
^ I agree with alot of what you said - particularly your comment about Mr Eko being interesting. It's really too bad that he was killed off so quickly - he was by far the most interesting of the tailes, and I REALLY liked Eko and his flashback storyline. Plus, I'd have liked to have seen more of how the Nigerian drug plane got to the island. That's an awful small plane to have ended up in the South Pacific. :lol:

I guess that the actor wanted off the show...but it is really unfortunate, because Eko still had alot of interesting stories in him. And given what happened at the end of season 2, when he wanted to keep pushing the button and Locke did not...I'd have liked to have seen him become another point of conflict for Locke. The conflict between Man of Science/Man of Faith Jack and Locke has really been kinda played out. Eko could have provided another whole aspect to the conflict - a conflict between two Men of Faith.

Might have been interesting.

And Seven of Five, I liked that part of season 3 too where Hurley sorta got Sawyer warmed up to the idea of being in a leadership role. It was kinda funny when he told Sawyer that he was the leader. Sawyer looked at him and yelled "LEADER????" :lol: He couldn't believe his ears. :lol:
 
And Sayid...well, I think it's one of the intentional ironies of the show that the Republican Guard Interrogator/Torturer is turning out to be the most reasonable, mature, and emotionally balanced person on the entire island. :lol:

Another thing I noticed about him early on is how much better he was at adapting to their situation than the others were. Sayid was the only one who had ever lived in an environment where always being alert and paranoid, and analyzing every situation regardless of how seemingly innocuous, was necessary to survival. Now they were all in that situation and only Sayid knew how to cope. I particularly noticed how often he was right about things simply by being more paranoid. Such as being right about "Henry Gale."
 
And Sayid...well, I think it's one of the intentional ironies of the show that the Republican Guard Interrogator/Torturer is turning out to be the most reasonable, mature, and emotionally balanced person on the entire island. :lol:
Another thing I noticed about him early on is how much better he was at adapting to their situation than the others were. Sayid was the only one who had ever lived in an environment where always being alert and paranoid, and analyzing every situation regardless of how seemingly innocuous, was necessary to survival. Now they were all in that situation and only Sayid knew how to cope. I particularly noticed how often he was right about things simply by being more paranoid. Such as being right about "Henry Gale."

Excellent point. You're right - he adapted very quickly...and he is so used to never letting his guard down that he is suspicious of everyone and everything - a characteristic that serves him well on the island. I think he lives his entire life under the assumption that everyone is hiding something, and no situation is completely as it seems.

'Henry Gale' was one situation like that...but I was really impressed when he pegged Michael as being compromised by The Others in like nanoseconds.

Very little slips by Sayid. :lol:

He has a bit of a blind spot when it comes to the women he's been in love with. But even then (and I'm thinking in particular of The Economist, here) he was quick to react when things turned out to be not as they seemed. Not a moment's hesitation at killing someone he thought he was in love with, like 60 seconds earlier. Yeah, he got emotional later...but in the moment, did what had to be done, and did it without hesitation.
 
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