So how would you put a Jedi order together?

[Reverend]

No romantic relationships - formal or otherwise - were allowed. That's a recipe for disaster.

I'm pretty sure Lucas has said Jedi are free to fuck anyone they please. It's attachments that are forbidden and with good reason. It's a religious order, not a military unit.

And as previously indicated: anyone that has a problem with that is free to leave the order, no questions asked.

 

[arch101]

Another thought: the Jedi should never again work for a government. They should be a complely Independent and impartial entity. At the time of Phantom Menace, a lot of folks seemed to distrust Jedi as tools of the corrupt republic. Perhaps some impartiality on the Jedi’s part could have kept some worlds from ceeding to the Trade Federation.

 

[Jedi_Master]

I'm pretty sure Lucas has said Jedi are free to fuck anyone they please. It's attachments that are forbidden and with good reason. It's a religious order, not a military unit.

And as previously indicated: anyone that has a problem with that is free to leave the order, no questions asked.

Religious orders that limit attachments haven't EVER had any problems, no siree....

 

[Kor]

I seem to remember that in the old Expanded Universe, Jedi in ancient times married and had families, and got along just fine. Then the PT came along and changed that. Perhaps it can be seen as an example of the arrogant overreach of the Jedi Order in the PT years, and how far it had diverged from its true roots.

Kor

 

[Reverend]

Religious orders that limit attachments haven't EVER had any problems, no siree....

Again I present as evidence, exhibit A: Anakin Skywalker, the only Jedi we know for a fact got married and also the only Jedi we know for a fact slaughtered children and former friends alike in his quest for personal power. But you're right, I'm sure that's purely just a coincidence!

I seem to remember that in the old Expanded Universe, Jedi in ancient times married and had families, and got along just fine. Then the PT came along and changed that. Perhaps it can be seen as an example of the arrogant overreach of the Jedi Order in the PT years, and how far it had diverged from its true roots.

Kor

As previously noted, the EU never had a very firm grasp of what being a Jedi was actual all about beyond "has a lightsaber and serves as the protagonist in adventure stories!" Not inaccurate by any means, but also not a terribly deep or insightful assessment.

Plus of course the EU also gave us "Grey Jedi" which where just a bloody stupid idea on the face of it.

 

[Reverend]

Another thought: the Jedi should never again work for a government. They should be a complely Independent and impartial entity. At the time of Phantom Menace, a lot of folks seemed to distrust Jedi as tools of the corrupt republic. Perhaps some impartiality on the Jedi’s part could have kept some worlds from ceeding to the Trade Federation.

I imagine that's probably how they did it way back when, but that would have been pre-Republic when the galaxy was 90% wild space and smaller warring/feuding Empires, Kingdoms and independent system states. In that landscape, an impartial party would be both valued and effective.

In a galaxy governed by a democratic Republic, it's a little more complicated. Generally speaking, self appointed arbiters of justice aren't often welcomed in civilised society. They're usually referred to as vigilantes.

So for a new Order to be independent from the Government, they'd either have to go full rogue (counter productive in the long run) or make jurisdictional agreements with EVERY system, sector or planetary authority they want to be able to operate in without conflicting with local law enforcement...which given there's literally something like a million of them, that would be a logistical nightmare and take *centuries* to work out.

Which is probably exactly why the original Order attached themselves to the Senate and even that was likely after they'd spent a considerable amount of time to build their credibility both with the authorities and the people at large.
Luke would effectively be starting *that* over from scratch too, only the galaxy is now a very different place and the same approach probably wouldn't work. Remember that the Jedi of old are little more than a myth to most people and many of those that do remember the Order, probably do so within the context as them as leading clone armies to oppress the freedom loving systems, hoping to escape the corrupt Republic. It's an uphill battle no matter which way you cut it.

I mean can you imagine how most persons of authority would view Luke post RotJ?
"Who's this guy and why is he asking for special judicial authority on my planet?"
"Some Alliance hotshot pilot that found religion, started running around with a laser sword and recruiting naive kids into his cult of magic worshippers."
"OK then, request for an audience denied!"
"Good call."

 

[JD]

I seem to remember that in the old Expanded Universe, Jedi in ancient times married and had families, and got along just fine. Then the PT came along and changed that. Perhaps it can be seen as an example of the arrogant overreach of the Jedi Order in the PT years, and how far it had diverged from its true roots.

Kor

Jedi in Luke's New Jedi Order also got married, including Luke himself, and possibly his niece.

Again I present as evidence, exhibit A: Anakin Skywalker, the only Jedi we know for a fact got married and also the only Jedi we know for a fact slaughtered children and former friends alike in his quest for personal power. But you're right, I'm sure that's purely just a coincidence!
.

Anakin's issues predated his marriage, so that's not really fair. It just seems to me that denying an essential element of humanity (not necessarily the fucking, I'm just talking about emotional connections) strikes me as not a very good idea.

 

[Reverend]

Anakin's issues predated his marriage, so that's not really fair. It just seems to me that denying an essential element of humanity (not necessarily the fucking, I'm just talking about emotional connections) strikes me as not a very good idea.

First off: yes, Anakin's flouting of the prohibition on personal attachments is symptomatic, not causative. However, I was responding to the notion that part of the problem with the Jedi was said prohibitions. Given that the only person to be unable to deal with that turned evil, while the other nine thousand, nine hundred and ninety nine (give or take) managed not to murder children for personal gain...well it's just not an argument that holds a lot of water.
Plus since as you say, his issues predated his marriage, the notion that the problem was cause by the need to hide his relationship is equally aquatically unsound.

Secondly: an emotional connection is not the same thing as a personal attachment. The former is just the natural result of being a social being. The latter however involves dividing your commitments. "Jedi" isn't a 9-5 job, a hobby or something you do only when it suits you, or when it is not an inconvenience. It's a life of committed service all by itself.
Jedi couldn't selflessly dedicate themselves to the greater good if they also have to worry about spouses and offspring and all the associated complications. They'd be compromised and it'd only be a matter of time before they ran into a conflict of interest or begin to act selfishly to protect or benefit those they were attached to. Indeed, exactly this happens with Padme on more than one occasion.

But again, for what feels like the 53rd time: If Anakin, or another other Jedi wanted to marry or whatever, the council wouldn't stop them...they'd just expel them from the Order. In short: they have a choice.
This is explicitly spelled out in both AotC when Padme falls from the gunship and in TCW with Kenobi & Satine. He flat out said he would have left the Order for her had she asked it of him. He had a choice as did Anakin; Obi-Wan chose the Order over Satine as she chose her duty over Kenobi...Anakin however didn't choose Padme, he chose himself.

 

[JoeZhang]

Jedi in Luke's New Jedi Order also got married, including Luke himself, and possibly his niece.

Luke married his Niece? That's the sort of thing I expect from a dirt farmer with a low level of education.

 

[JD]

Oh, I thought it was pretty clear there that that was two separate thoughts. Luke was married, and his niece might have also been married to someone else.