"Sleep No More" Grade and Discussion Thread

[Mr Awe]

I hope you're wrong about there being a sequel. It's not needed, unless the producers' goal is to put more viewers to sleep.

Check back in the thread and you'll find the quote from Gatiss where he says he was asked to write one. Of course, that was before it bombed so I wouldn't be surprised if it was quietly dropped.

We can only hope it's dropped!

 

[Timewalker]

^ If you read my review, you'd see that I agree with you. However, as the episode is written, it implies that there will be a sequel. That's all I meant. Not that I wanted one. Clearly the sarcastic tone of my message conveyed this.

Clearly it didn't, not to me.

I hope you're wrong about there being a sequel. It's not needed, unless the producers' goal is to put more viewers to sleep.

Let's take a look back at what I wrote.

D'oh! Is it really a surprise given the ending. It ended in such a way that it begs for a sequel. And, Gatiss and Moffat are probably the only two who think "the monsters are great."

I supposes he's required to feign excitement about it though.

Meh.

Mr Awe

Yeah, clearly I'm brimming over with enthusiasm about the idea of a sequel.

Reading comprehension!

Mr Awe

yourself.

Where did I say you were "brimming over with enthusiasm"?

You indicated that it "begs for a sequel." I disagree.

What it begs for is to be used as an insomnia remedy.

 

[Mr Awe]

^ The writer's intention seems to be calling for a sequel. And, it turns out that was the original case. If we're lucky we won't get one.

 

[Relayer1]

Don't you think the show looks tired ?

I don't know, but that line certainly is.

It certainly is

Don't you think the show looks tired ?

So we should replace it with a psychotic show that wants to murder a large amount of us and enslave the rest?

Sounds good to me.

To be honest, I can see Who going the same way as almost all the other 'genre' shows I've followed in the last decade. Defiance and The Walking Dead were the last to be unTivo'ed. Game of Thrones is hanging in there, but Agents of Shield is teetering.

 

[Timewalker]

^ The writer's intention seems to be calling for a sequel. And, it turns out that was the original case. If we're lucky we won't get one.

Well, we can at least agree on that.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Don't you think the show looks tired ?

I don't know, but that line certainly is.

Yeah. I laughed the first time I read it in another thread but enough is enough!

Don't you think the show looks tired ?

So we should replace it with a psychotic show that wants to murder a large amount of us and enslave the rest?

Sounds good to me! (Absentmindedly taps out a rhythm of four.)

The second least popular episode in 10 years with the Fans and the General Public is more memorable than the forgettable middle-of-the-pack placing for the rest of [Gatiss'] episodes, I suppose.

I'm really surprised that this episode is getting such horrendous reviews. I really liked it. Granted, I'm naturally predisposed to like the retro feel of these base under siege episodes. But I also liked the found footage element.

And while the science behind the monsters is pretty vague, it worked well enough for me. The mad scientist tampered with the Morpheus machines to make them more efficient and they ended up mutating human tissue into these monstrous eye-booger creatures instead. Since we don't really know how the Morpheus machines work in the first place, we can't really criticize how the necessary mutations occur to create the Sandmen.

I also enjoyed the irony: Most horror movies make you afraid to go to sleep. This one made me say, "I need to sleep right now!" (In a good way, not the sarcastic way that it seems most fans are saying it right now.)

This is my favorite of Mark Gatiss' episodes. (Granted, that's kind of a low bar. Although I did enjoy "The Unquiet Dead," "Cold War," & "Robot of Sherwood," he's also the guy that did "The Idiot's Lantern" & "Victory of the Daleks.")

To steal a line from Arnold Judas Rimmer.
"I thought it was the worst pile of blubbery school-girl mush I've ever been compelled to endure. I consider it an insult to my backside as I was forced to sit here growing carbuncles through such putrid adolescent slush."

Although I disagree with your assessment, I just want to test my Red Dwarf trivia brain. This was from the Series V episode "Holoship," right?

I think one thing to consider is whether there'd be a drop off by now whoever the show runner/Doctor was, the show has been running ten years and maybe people are a bit jaded about it?

Agreed. Most shows feel a bit strained by the time they get to their 9th season. Why should Doctor Who be any exception?

For my own perspective, a show that lasts this long eventually needs to have a running story, something to keep me coming back.

[...]

The "Stargate" series were on for years, and I kept watching because every season advanced the story.

I was kinda the opposite. I was really excited by Stargate SG-1's story arc for the first few seasons. But by the time Daniel Jackson came back in Season 7, I realized that the writers didn't actually have a plan and were just making it up as they went along. I still watched & enjoyed the show for the rest of its run but I stopped expecting its arc to have any satisfactory payoff after that.

Thinking about it this was yet another episode in which Clara could have been replaced by any other Companion or the Doctor could have been on his own with no real impact. It is funny to look back at the pre-series publicity about the pair's relationship and compare it with what we got, which was mostly generic scripts written for an actor who was never cast.

And that displeases me. "The glory years of Clara and the Doctor" wasn't this at all. [...] We just haven't gotten the "glory years" that were teased, that's all. It was just Moffat blowing smoke as usual.

Well, I suppose it's "the glory years" compared to Season 7 when they didn't totally trust each other or Season 8 when they kept arguing with each other. It's a season that isn't mired in Clara's personal life like Season 8 was. It has a very generic feeling that reminds me of the overrated "glory years" of the 4th Doctor & Sarah Jane in Seasons 13-14.

But, overall, I agree. I've been disappointed that this season hasn't had a greater focus on the Doctor & Clara together. And although a lot of people didn't like Danny Pink, I wish that we got to see a bit more of Clara's personal life in Season 9. It feels like a weird switch, particularly since it's implied that she still isn't traveling with the Doctor full time. She's still going home between adventures. We just don't see what she's doing during that time any more.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

1. The corridors looked almost identical to the ones used for the Enterprise Refit/D in TMP and TNG.

I'm glad someone else noticed that. Any time I get a little Star Trek vibe off of Doctor Who it always makes me smile.

I guess we can at least add another sleep-related entity to the Doctor Who monster canon, what with the Dream Crabs from the Christmas special.

I was just thinking that. In fact, at one point, I half expected this to be the episode where the Doctor realizes that he & Clara are still dreaming and that they never woke up in "Last Christmas."

Although, this does summarize what is going wrong with Doctor Who nowadays, there seems to be some sort belief that there always has to be a monster and so we always get one inserted, despite the fact the story could have been so much more interesting without one. It happened earlier this season with The Woman Who Lived which could have been better served had it just been a character drama between the Doctor and Ashildr without the pointless lion man inserted into it.

Well, "The Woman Who Lived" needed to have some kind of additional conflict to it. But I agree that it perhaps would have worked better as a pure historical with the Doctor & the immortal girl as the only sci-fi elements to it.

I found Clara's negative reaction to the Grunt being a grown soldier very strange. This is basically the same thing the Sontarans do, yet Clara has never reacted this way around Strax. Okay, so her anger seemed more directed at humans for basically creating a race of cannon fodder, but why is she getting pissed off at these people? They aren't the ones who made the decision to do this, and the Grunt seems to be a valued team member.

In fairness, there's no direct evidence that the Sontarans are deliberately bred to have lower intelligence. And I suppose it's less horrifying to see it happen with an alien race because we don't know how the Sontarans originally reproduced before they invented cloning. (Assuming the Sontarans are a natural species to begin with and weren't originally bred as soldiers by another race that died out long ago.) Since Clara is human, seeing human life perverted in this way would be more offensive to her.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I hope you're wrong about there being a sequel. It's not needed, unless the producers' goal is to put more viewers to sleep.

Check back in the thread and you'll find the quote from Gatiss where he says he was asked to write one. Of course, that was before it bombed so I wouldn't be surprised if it was quietly dropped.

We can only hope it's dropped!

But there has to be a sequel because quite simply the way it ends the Doctor loses and Earth is wiped out.

 

[StCoop]

But there has to be a sequel because quite simply the way it ends the Doctor loses and Earth is wiped out.

Give Big Finish a few years and they can do it.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

But there has to be a sequel because quite simply the way it ends the Doctor loses and Earth is wiped out.

Give Big Finish a few years and they can do it.

Yeah but they're audio stories. I want visual stuff hehe.

I don't care if the sequel sucks even more then this one I just want a proper resolution.

 

[Sparky]

I don't get the hate. I really enjoyed the episode. I'm not a fan at all of "found footage" stories, but this one had me engaged from beginning to end. I knew it wasn't a 2 parter so I was expecting the standard quick victory and wrap up near the end. I was waiting for it, and it never happened. Finally, a non cliffhanger episode where the Doctor doesn't win and we don't get a resolution next week. It's about bloody time. It's like they finally get the Dr Who formula and r

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

You know, I didn't care for this episode so much, that I didn't realize that the Doctor lost and the Earth was basically doomed until afterwards. Kinda telling for how excruciatingly boring this episode was.

 

[RoJoHen]

You know, I didn't care for this episode so much, that I didn't realize that the Doctor lost and the Earth was basically doomed until afterwards. Kinda telling for how excruciatingly boring this episode was.

No kidding. The ending of this episode was clearly meant to foreshadow doom for the planet Earth, but the whole premise was just so silly that I can't be bothered to care.

The human race...defeated by eye boogers!!!

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I have to wonder what the process is for writing and greenlighting a script?

 

[The Wormhole]

Not trying to defend anything here, but I'm surprised at everyone's reaction to the abrupt ending. Go and watch any random found footage movie, they all end the same way, the footage just ends with no resolution and a pervading sense of doom that things are about to get worse. Since this episode is emulating those movies, it only makes sense it would end in the same manner.

Now either we get that sequel Gatiss was talking about, or we can just assume that humanity eventually found a way to defeat the sleep-crust monsters on their own. After all, this episode takes place in the 38th century and we know humanity is still around further in the future.

It's a better way to end things than that time on Stargate Universe where most of the cast were dead by the end of the episode with everyone live and well again the next week. Come to think of it, that was another found footage episode.

I have to wonder what the process is for writing and greenlighting a script?

It's very possible Gatiss could be in a position where his scripts are approved automatically without supervision by Moffat, much like Moffat's own scripts were during the RTD era.

 

[Starkers]

I would imagine it's fairly rigorous, the trouble is that sometimes you can't tell what will/won't work on screen until it comes time to producing it. Unless there's some kind of tax write off at work very few people in film and TV go out of their way to produce stuff that's shite, people imagine what they're making will be good, plenty of tv shows and films have been perceived as being sure-fire successes right up until the moment they're shown to the public for the first time.

And yes, creatures formed out of the gunk in your eye is a bit silly, but this is Doctor Who, is it as silly as cute little things made of human fat?

 

[Starkers]

Not trying to defend anything here, but I'm surprised at everyone's reaction to the abrupt ending. Go and watch any random found footage movie, they all end the same way, the footage just ends with no resolution and a pervading sense of doom that things are about to get worse. Since this episode is emulating those movies, it only makes sense it would end in the same manner.

Now either we get that sequel Gatiss was talking about, or we can just assume that humanity eventually found a way to defeat the sleep-crust monsters on their own. After all, this episode takes place in the 38th century and we know humanity is still around further in the future.

It's a better way to end things than that time on Stargate Universe where most of the cast were dead by the end of the episode with everyone live and well again the next week. Come to think of it, that was another found footage episode.

I have to wonder what the process is for writing and greenlighting a script?

It's very possible Gatiss could be in a position where his scripts are approved automatically without supervision by Moffat, much like Moffat's own scripts were during the RTD era.

Admittedly its a few years ago but I recall Gatiss saying that his Victory of the Daleks script went back and forth multiple times with Moffat wanting changes etc.

And you're spot on about the ending.

 

[The Wormhole]

Admittedly its a few years ago but I recall Gatiss saying that his Victory of the Daleks script went back and forth multiple times with Moffat wanting changes etc.

I was aware about the Victory of the Daleks fiasco. I made my comment based on the fact that Moffat and Gatiss have since worked together extensively not just on Doctor Who but Sherlock also, so with that in mind if there is any writer who now holds the level of trust with Moffat that Moffat had with RTD, Gatiss would likely be one of them.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

And yes, creatures formed out of the gunk in your eye is a bit silly, but this is Doctor Who, is it as silly as cute little things made of human fat?

The difference is, that the Adipose were played for Awwwww moments and laughs... mostly, if you get over the horror of fat becoming living beings leaving your body.

That script acknowledged how silly that was and the focus of the episode was the comedy between the Doctor and Donna.

 

[StCoop]

And yes, creatures formed out of the gunk in your eye is a bit silly, but this is Doctor Who, is it as silly as cute little things made of human fat?

Comedy episode vs something that was supposed to be serious.