"Sleep No More" Grade and Discussion Thread

[Marc]

I found Clara's negative reaction to the Grunt being a grown soldier very strange. This is basically the same thing the Sontarans do, yet Clara has never reacted this way around Strax. Okay, so her anger seemed more directed at humans for basically creating a race of cannon fodder, but why is she getting pissed off at these people? They aren't the ones who made the decision to do this, and the Grunt seems to be a valued team member. Well, at least Commander Nagata wasn't willing to risk the Grunt just to save everyone else.

Does Clara know all the Sontarans are clones?

If she does it, it could be that she knows that all Sontarans are clones and the entire species is hellbent on warfare where as the grunt and it's bretheren are grown by humans to do the "dirty work".

TDLR - Sontarans are grown to be expendible, humans grow grunts to be expendable.

 

[davejames]

Fantastic looking monster I thought, but even for this show their origin seemed so silly and ridiculous I had a hard time taking it seriously.

And while the underlying idea of the episode is a cool one-- an entire attack that was staged and made as "exciting and dramatic" as possible simply so that the viewer would watch it and become infected-- the execution just didn't work at all, and it was anything but exciting and dramatic.

 

[Mr Awe]

^ That idea is intriguing. But, it also invalidates all of the events in the story because they're mere window dressing. Plus, if instead all he did was broadcast a status report to his higher ups on Triton with the infection encoded into that message, the results would be much the same.

 

[Timewalker]

"Face the Raven" tv trailer

I'm already choking up. When she reached out to his face, my eyes got watery. I'm going to be a mess next week. An absolute mess.

I don't want her to go.

I do. If she's finally, really, gone for real next week, I will definitely enjoy it.

It ended in such a way that it begs for a sequel.

No, it really doesn't. This story had me bored less than 5 minutes in, and it didn't improve at all.

What a waste of time. I gave it 1/5, but would have given a 0 if the poll allowed.

 

[Mr Awe]

^ If you read my review, you'd see that I agree with you. However, as the episode is written, it implies that there will be a sequel. That's all I meant. Not that I wanted one. Clearly the sarcastic tone of my message conveyed this.

 

[davejames]

^ That idea is intriguing. But, it also invalidates all of the events in the story because they're mere window dressing. Plus, if instead all he did was broadcast a status report to his higher ups on Triton with the infection encoded into that message, the results would be much the same.

Well if those events had actually been scary or dramatic, I wouldn't have minded. And I did like how even the Doctor at the end was acknowledging that nothing about the monster's behavior made sense and that it all seemed to be for show.

And I also think the expectation was that this was a video that would slip out and go viral so everyone would want to watch, instead of just a few higher ups tuning in to see a boring status report.

 

[starsuperion]

^ If you read my review, you'd see that I agree with you. However, as the episode is written, it implies that there will be a sequel. That's all I meant. Not that I wanted one. Clearly the sarcastic tone of my message conveyed this.

If there is supposed to be a sequel, then the links or hints to that could have been much stronger, to make it as is, implies a one off, and even if the sets, and effects were top notch.. the execution of the actors, and the story was so horribly written and the actors played in it were not very strong. I mean, if those were space marines, they certainly acted liked scared little kids playing a video game of resident evil or something.. I mean if the goal was to show that in the future soldiers are pretty flighty and weak, then mission accomplished..

I rather like to think this is a one off, a bad egg in a good bunch, and hope that this stupid idea is quickly forgotten..

However, the links to the reprogramming of the mind do take us back to the Flood episode with the words that reprogram the mind and yank the soul.. which in that case, if we are somehow going to end this series on Clara finding and rescuing the Doctor's soul, then maybe it has validity there, but that is a stretch..

however, if patient zero was someone else, someone from the Doctor's past that would have been a better ending to me.. like say maybe the forgotten Missy left to her own devices on Skarro would have been a great choice, with her time lord psychic mind infecting the sand and so on.. but as is..

that episode had as much appeal as RTD in drag wearing John Nathan Turner's dress.

 

[TommyR01D]

For my own perspective, a show that lasts this long eventually needs to have a running story, something to keep me coming back.

"Supernatural," mediocre as it has become, keeps me watching because every season advances the story.

"The X-Files," even though its final season was generally terrible and the main character wasn't even around anymore, kept me watching because I was interested in the continuation of the story.

The "Stargate" series were on for years, and I kept watching because every season advanced the story.

You can get away with seasons of standalone episodes for a while; I think the RTD years of Doctor Who proved that, but eventually you need a story to keep us going. However you feel about the River storyline, it kept me watching. However you feel about the Impossible Girl storyline, it kept me watching. I was interested to see how it would play out.

The last two seasons have had no story. You could delete Season 8 from history and it would have absolutely no impact on anything. This season is much the same. A bunch of standalone episodes that don't ultimately mean anything.

The trouble is, I think, that the big Moffat sagas that we used to have were themselves getting tired out. People were getting sick of entire series being taken up by heavy, convoluted story arcs which dragged on and on until finally they were tied up in a rushed and unsatisfactory resolution to make way for the next big mystery which we knew would ultimately do the same. The Time of the Doctor shows this trope in the extreme - four years worth of tangled plot-lines hastily taped together and stomped into the ground long after the viewers had forgotten them or just stopped caring.

In Series 7, 8 and 9, we've had the long and complicated arc which dominates every episode (Impossible Girl), the RTD-style single series arc (Missy's Afterlife) and then seemingly no running theme at all (Hybrids? Death? War? Who knows?). All three Series have been fairly weak. Clearly this is a matter of improving quality of writing and storytelling rather than just a reorganisation.

Well if those events had actually been scary or dramatic, I
I think the expectation was that this was a video that would slip out and go viral so everyone would want to watch, instead of just a few higher ups tuning in to see a boring status report.

That seems ironic, given the rather low viewing figures for this episode.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

^ That idea is intriguing. But, it also invalidates all of the events in the story because they're mere window dressing. Plus, if instead all he did was broadcast a status report to his higher ups on Triton with the infection encoded into that message, the results would be much the same.

Well if those events had actually been scary or dramatic, I wouldn't have minded. And I did like how even the Doctor at the end was acknowledging that nothing about the monster's behavior made sense and that it all seemed to be for show.

And I also think the expectation was that this was a video that would slip out and go viral so everyone would want to watch, instead of just a few higher ups tuning in to see a boring status report.

Heck he even went with tempting people to watch it by specifically telling them not to.

however, if patient zero was someone else, someone from the Doctor's past that would have been a better ending to me.. like say maybe the forgotten Missy left to her own devices on Skarro would have been a great choice, with her time lord psychic mind infecting the sand and so on.. but as is..

Except it would be cliché to have someone the Doctor knows turn up in a random place he turns up at.

 

[Mr Awe]

^ That idea is intriguing. But, it also invalidates all of the events in the story because they're mere window dressing. Plus, if instead all he did was broadcast a status report to his higher ups on Triton with the infection encoded into that message, the results would be much the same.

Well if those events had actually been scary or dramatic, I wouldn't have minded. And I did like how even the Doctor at the end was acknowledging that nothing about the monster's behavior made sense and that it all seemed to be for show.

And I also think the expectation was that this was a video that would slip out and go viral so everyone would want to watch, instead of just a few higher ups tuning in to see a boring status report.

It would've still spread even with just a few.

But, if he wanted it to go viral, he should've just upload a new cat video or something?

Mr Awe

 

[Hartzilla2007]

^ That idea is intriguing. But, it also invalidates all of the events in the story because they're mere window dressing. Plus, if instead all he did was broadcast a status report to his higher ups on Triton with the infection encoded into that message, the results would be much the same.

Well if those events had actually been scary or dramatic, I wouldn't have minded. And I did like how even the Doctor at the end was acknowledging that nothing about the monster's behavior made sense and that it all seemed to be for show.

And I also think the expectation was that this was a video that would slip out and go viral so everyone would want to watch, instead of just a few higher ups tuning in to see a boring status report.

It would've still spread even with just a few.

No it wouldn't it needed the signal to spread becuase it was done be rewriting the brain not spreading like a virus.

 

[Mr Awe]

^ If you read my review, you'd see that I agree with you. However, as the episode is written, it implies that there will be a sequel. That's all I meant. Not that I wanted one. Clearly the sarcastic tone of my message conveyed this.

If there is supposed to be a sequel, then the links or hints to that could have been much stronger, to make it as is, implies a one off, .

You missed the whole point. This is a FOUND video story. So, the video was found and viewed. Rasmussen edited and put together this video, and it was found. Ergo, the infection has started. The fact that the episode exists, as written and more importantly, shown, means that a sequel is planned.

You'd have to ignore the entire episode to not think a sequel is plan. Now, I dread the thought of a sequel, but one was planned.

Mr Awe

 

[Mr Awe]

Well if those events had actually been scary or dramatic, I wouldn't have minded. And I did like how even the Doctor at the end was acknowledging that nothing about the monster's behavior made sense and that it all seemed to be for show.

And I also think the expectation was that this was a video that would slip out and go viral so everyone would want to watch, instead of just a few higher ups tuning in to see a boring status report.

It would've still spread even with just a few.

No it wouldn't it needed the signal to spread becuase it was done be rewriting the brain not spreading like a virus.

Yep, the signal was encoded in the video. Instead of the video he made, the video could've been just a report to superiors, a cat video gone viral, or what not, and some people would view it and become infected.

Rasmussen's goal was to get people to watch the video to the end by making it interesting--and they'd be infected. But, there were easier ways than the lengths he went to!

Mr Awe

 

[Enterprise is Great]

My brother and I couldn't stay awake during this episode at all so we stopped watching it and finished it up the next day and it still made me sleepy. It was boring and really made no sense.

 

[Relayer1]

Don't you think the show looks tired ?

 

[Mr Awe]

Don't you think the show looks tired ?

I don't know, but that line certainly is.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Don't you think the show looks tired ?

So we should replace it with a psychotic show that wants to murder a large amount of us and enslave the rest?

 

[Timewalker]

^ If you read my review, you'd see that I agree with you. However, as the episode is written, it implies that there will be a sequel. That's all I meant. Not that I wanted one. Clearly the sarcastic tone of my message conveyed this.

Clearly it didn't, not to me.

I hope you're wrong about there being a sequel. It's not needed, unless the producers' goal is to put more viewers to sleep.

 

[StCoop]

I hope you're wrong about there being a sequel. It's not needed, unless the producers' goal is to put more viewers to sleep.

Check back in the thread and you'll find the quote from Gatiss where he says he was asked to write one. Of course, that was before it bombed so I wouldn't be surprised if it was quietly dropped.

 

[Mr Awe]

^ If you read my review, you'd see that I agree with you. However, as the episode is written, it implies that there will be a sequel. That's all I meant. Not that I wanted one. Clearly the sarcastic tone of my message conveyed this.

Clearly it didn't, not to me.

I hope you're wrong about there being a sequel. It's not needed, unless the producers' goal is to put more viewers to sleep.

Let's take a look back at what I wrote.

D'oh! Is it really a surprise given the ending. It ended in such a way that it begs for a sequel. And, Gatiss and Moffat are probably the only two who think "the monsters are great."

I supposes he's required to feign excitement about it though.

Meh.

Mr Awe

Yeah, clearly I'm brimming over with enthusiasm about the idea of a sequel.

Reading comprehension!

Mr Awe