Size of the Nova

[Tensen01]

First post here...

So I am going to be running a Star Trek Tabletop RPG, and I decided to choose the Nova for my Player's ship. Unhappy with any of the existing deckplans I got the crazy notion into my head to make my own... Which is when I ran into issues.

So almost everywhere I am seeing a measurement of 180m in length, but all the deckplans using that measurement are way too small, not even having enough room for the 78-80 crew members(barely breaking 40 crew assuming some double bunks). That is just a little over half the length of the Intrepid, and has half the Crew? That may seem logical but half the length is NOT half the volume and the ship is just WAAAY too small.

Where is this measurement coming from?

I ask because on Memory Alpha the listed intended size is 221m, this coming directly from Rick Sternbach. This makes MUCH more sense to me as it's still a small ship, but definitely has enough room. This also, to me, lines up a bit better with the onscreen size when compared to Voyager in some of the shots.

But then I thought of something to find, to me, the real correct scale... The Escape Pods and the Phaser Arrays. There's no reason to assume the Nova is using different escape pods than the Intrepid, after all even smaller ships like the defiant use them. And from what I'm finding Phaser arrays are basically all the same size.

So when the Phaser arrays and Escape Pod Hatches are matched up you get a length of approximately 263 Meters!

Still smaller than Intrepid but maybe a bit too large?

Now, the deck height is increased from 4.4m to 6.4, so that's a big jump. Around 4.6 in the 221m length, which leaves more room for between deck Jeffries tubes but might be a bit much.

I think the 221 as intended by Sternbach is a decent middle ground.

So what do you folks think? Comments?

 

[Tenacity]

I'd go even smaller still, 120 meters, maybe as low as 95 meters.

Try matching up the sizes of the windows with the Intrepid, and the dome above the bridge.

 

[Tensen01]

Matching up the windows, the inset ones that is, puts it around the 263 mark. The dome is unhelpful as Voyager doesn't really have a dome, but the bridge area comparison would honestly probably put it at the 180 as the Equinox Bridge Set was about the size of the Constitution Bridge.

 

[Tenacity]

YMMV.

 

[Timo]

Cramming in the crew isn't a problem: I've seen convincingly done 120 m Oberth interiors for housing the 80 crew required by "The Naked Now". Just assume dormitory housing for the unseens, who probably are "surplus" anyway (because we see an Oberth easily operated by just seven or so, that is, by a typical onscreen team - a Nova could be a minimally crewed taxi for a rotating crew of dozens of scientists, too).

Keeping the length of the engines down feels like a thing worth doing IMHO. If they are longer than those of the hero ship, the bit about Ransom's vessel being slow and weak is diluted...

The same with phaser strips. Don't give her too much firepower. And strips come in all sizes anyway, down to the escape pods having some!

At the other end, the shuttlebay doors need to be big enough for one or the other of the usual auxiliary designs. I doubt the ship has special minishuttles designed just for her, and OTOH the special shuttle of the Defiant wasn't all that mini in the end. A horizontal launch from the indicated stern bay doesn't result in severe lower limits on ship size, but it does rule out certain outliers where each unseen deck would be assumed much lower than usual. The total deck count can't be varied much, I guess (unlike with the Oberth), as the porthole rows are unambiguous and not in internal conflict with anything much.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Sgt_G]

easily operated by just seven or so, that is, by a typical onscreen team

It might work for Hollywood, but it won't work in "real life". It takes a minimum of three bodies to keep one chair occupied 24/7 with eight-hour shifts. But that doesn't allow for any time off, so you really need five bodies for each duty position. Some jobs don't need to be manned all the time, such as medical that would be on-call, so you can get away with fewer bodies for those slots.

 

[Timo]

What needs to be crewed, though? Engineering is mostly an on-call thing for meek science ships in peacetime, too. Two people on the bridge, one of them doing the mission and the other one flying the ship. Basically, two seats that need three people, and one that needs people only during the office hours - and only the latter specialist isn't cross-trained. Eight hours of off time in addition to eight of sleep and eight of work sounds fine. In the short term no doubt involved.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Sgt_G]

In my world, the 24/7 slots are: Command, Helm, Nav, Comms, Sensors, Engines x2. On a small ship, I can see combining Helm + Nav, and Comms + Sensors, and perhaps cutting engines to one body. On really small ships, Command can be at the Helm instead of Center Seat. So, yes, you could get away with two on the bridge and one in engine room.

I spent my entire military career in a 24/7 job. During shorter deployments, we went with three-man teams working either eight-hour shifts / no days off -or- rotating 12-hours shift 4-on/2-off/flip. You can't keep either of those up for very long before people start to burn out. Back at home base, we had five-man teams. Actually, it was usually six or seven bodies to allow for Leave or training/school or admin duties. If you run with five bodies, you have no room to flex the schedule.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

The issue I have with some of the Nova-Class deck plans I've seen is that for a science ship she has startlingly few science labs. Given her role as a surveyor I'd be of the opinion to have at least a third (if not half) the crew dedicated to research posts, with the other two-thirds (to half) the crew being for ship operations. This may limit her functionality at times, but given that she is a science ship then combat would be as a last resort, whilst things like medical emergency response or evacuation transport would be limited. If I recall there is also a line in "Equinox" about the ship being for short-duration missions, so she was never intended to operate for long periods away from the support of a station or other ships, which makes sense if she is sent out to carry out a specific purpose (gather information and samples, conduct preliminary analysis and testing) then return back to base for more in-depth work to be carried out. At least that's how I've looked at the role of most science ships in Trek.

 

[Timo]

This would indeed befit the more starship-like, going-places appearance of the Nova as compared to the Oberths, justifying the bigger engines and the supposed higher performance. Rather than deploy and loiter, the Nova would fetch.

Yet other types would do other sorts of science. The Discovery looks completely different again...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tenacity]

328 feet (or 100 meters). Basically a corvette or a cutter.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

328 feet (or 100 meters). Basically a corvette or a cutter.

Aww, it's as though Voyager had a baby!

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Furthering the discussion on what stations should be manned 24/7: In TNG "Disaster", the mighty Enterprise on a downtime shift apparently only had crew at Conn and Ops, with O'Brien there to run some tests and Troi there for... No real reason. Picard had just left the bridge for a tour with the kids and Ro was apparently about to arrive. In "Thine Own Self", Beverly commanded the night shift which had people at Conn, Ops and Tactical, and again Troi there for... No real reason. I sense a pattern. :P

Voyager showed Kim in charge of the night shift, which seemed to have him in the center seat, with someone at Conn and someone else at Tactical, with Kim jumping to Ops when something inevitably went wrong. Sounds to me that those three stations are really the only ones worth manning 24/7 on most ships.

Mark

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

In Suder's first appearance it just seemed to him and Crewman Darwin working in the engine room on that shift.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

So when the Phaser arrays and Escape Pod Hatches are matched up you get a length of approximately 263 Meters!

I did this too a few years ago, and noticed this is also consistent with the windows and torpedo launchers. It's also consistent with the shuttlebay, which on the Nova class would be too small for literally any shuttle we know of at any size below about 250 meters. As it stands, it would just barely fit a couple of Type-7s at 260m.

Still smaller than Intrepid but maybe a bit too large?

Length is NOT the same thing as size. At 263 meters in length, the Nova would still be far SMALLER than the Intrepid, probably about one third to one fourth its size. Intrepid has a very fat and bulbous saucer.

Now, the deck height is increased from 4.4m to 6.4, so that's a big jump. Around 4.6 in the 221m length, which leaves more room for between deck Jeffries tubes but might be a bit much.

You're assuming there's a 1/1 correlation between decks and windows rows. Also, the 4.4 meter deck height doesn't make any sense and never has; I've lived in two-story buildings that weren't that tall. 6.4 meters would be high enough to double-deck the ship, at 3.2 meters per deck. The window arrangement would be a little weird, but then it's kind of always been that way on Starfleet ships

 

[Sgt_G]

The window arrangement would be a little weird, but then it's kind of always been that way on Starfleet ships

That's because most artists use TLRC instead of TLAR when creating new ship designs. They don't think about internal arraignment and just throw windows willy-nilly all over the ship. Heck, even the original Enterprise has a huge problem, not with windows but rather putting the Warp pylons right into the shuttle bay.

(TLRC = That Looks Really Cool / TLAR = That Looks About Right)

 

[Tribble puncher]

I think the Nova would have been better suited as a patrol frigate, if they wanted to keep it's size as small as depicted in Voyager. It makes more sense for a ship that small to be patrolling shipping lanes, chasing pirates away from civilian shipping or just acting as general deterrent (basically the ship would be a mall cop), as a "short range science vessel" it makes no sense at all, Science vessels are supposed to go and do science things "out there" and be able to operate for as long as needed to effectively observe, study, gather data, etc. That's what the explorer type heavy ships are for anyway, so a dedicated science vessel seems somewhat moot, as much as I like the design of the Oberth and the Nova, given their official sizes and capabilities they don't seem very practical, even in universe.

 

[Timo]

But there's a sharp division into exploration vessels and science ships in Starfleet: the two are terminologically distinct, and thus apparently not the same thing at all.

We haven't really seen or heard of a science ship venturing into the unknown ahead of other vessels. When Oberths have hovered over interesting phenomena, there's no talk about them having discovered said phenomena. They have just been summoned to conduct a study.

Basically, the less "capabilities" a science ship has, the better - after all, those capabilities are wasted since the ship isn't going anywhere but merely stays put and studies. In that sense, the apparent propulsive abilities of the Nova (biggish engines, quoted warp 8 performance) seem almost excessive. Certainly having so many weapons looks odd. So the Nova was probably designed as a generic basis for multiple mission-specific variants, much like we see the Oberth serve as "floating science barracks" and "busy supply shuttle" alike. It's just that the Nova approaches the range of mission parameters from the opposite end, being a bit too powerful for the lower end of duties rather than a bit too weak for the higher end...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tensen01]

I did this too a few years ago, and noticed this is also consistent with the windows and torpedo launchers. It's also consistent with the shuttlebay, which on the Nova class would be too small for literally any shuttle we know of at any size below about 250 meters. As it stands, it would just barely fit a couple of Type-7s at 260m.

Yeah I noticed this too

Length is NOT the same thing as size. At 263 meters in length, the Nova would still be far SMALLER than the Intrepid, probably about one third to one fourth its size. Intrepid has a very fat and bulbous saucer.

Very true. I made that distinction in my original point

You're assuming there's a 1/1 correlation between decks and windows rows. Also, the 4.4 meter deck height doesn't make any sense and never has; I've lived in two-story buildings that weren't that tall. 6.4 meters would be high enough to double-deck the ship, at 3.2 meters per deck. The window arrangement would be a little weird, but then it's kind of always been that way on Starfleet ships

Ah, but you're forgetting between decks. That 6.4 meters is for the ENTIRE deck, not just the walking space, that includes floor and ceiling in between decks. Same with 4.4 That's 3 Meters with about .7 meters above and below. I think the 6.4 would actually be better in a lot of ways. 3 meters with 1.7 above and below. meaning bewteen decks is 3.4 meters... lotsa room for proper jeffries tubes. The 4.6 would give almost a full meter above and below, meaning 1.6 meter between living area

 

[Sgt_G]

Why do you need crawl spaces between every floor????

In the deck plans I have drafted, I typically allow for 2.75 meter (nine foot) ceilings with 25 centimeters (ten inches) of deck plate. As said plates are not solid slabs of metal, there's plenty of space to run plumbing and wiring. No need for a crawl space. To me, it's just goofy. If you have three decks with 1.5 meter crawl spaces between 1+2 / 2+3, you could have had four full-height decks instead. It's a waste of space. Nine decks could have been thirteen.

There may well be a place for a crawl space occasionally, such as the one I put under the shuttle bay to house the fuel lines and hydraulics, but it should have a specific reason for being there.