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Sith questions

tharpdevenport

Admiral
Admiral
I was wondering, what is the purpose of the Sith in the Empire? Have I forgotten something?

What does the Emprie have to gain by having the Sith in the Empire? Why did the Sith join the Empire? Why do they even play ball with the sytem to any degree in the Empire? What does the Sith gain by joining the Empire?

I don't understand the whole thing.

Did the Empire exist previously or did it come into being by a partnership with the Sith?


Nobody needs to waste their time geting overly complex in the answrs -- I'm not that into SW.
 
I was wondering, what is the purpose of the Sith in the Empire? Have I forgotten something?

What does the Emprie have to gain by having the Sith in the Empire? Why did the Sith join the Empire? Why do they even play ball with the sytem to any degree in the Empire? What does the Sith gain by joining the Empire?

I don't understand the whole thing.

Did the Empire exist previously or did it come into being by a partnership with the Sith?


Nobody needs to waste their time geting overly complex in the answrs -- I'm not that into SW.
The Emperor is a Sith He formed the Empire.
 
Yeah, the Empire's just stuck with him due to the senate voting for it (see Episode III).
 
I'm confused then: if the Senate voted for it, than did the Mporer not form the Empire?


And what is the benefit of the Emprie? It's an odd combo, I think.
 
I'm confused then: if the Senate voted for it, than did the Mporer not form the Empire?


And what is the benefit of the Emprie? It's an odd combo, I think.
The Senate gave Palpatine the power he needed to declare himself emperor.

Benefit to who? For Palpatine its about power.
The Sith and the Empire are an odd combo? Why?
 
I thought you said the Emporer formed the Empire. If the Senate gave him the power, then was the Empire not already there?


Based on what I've learned about the Sith, it's an order with a dark mystical side, but the Empire appears to be a military-like structured governoring system that deals in reality and at most times seems to answr to itself and only humors people like Vader unles the Emporer gives a command. Why would the order of the Sith and those weilding the dark side of the Force, even create such a thing? It seems at odds with them.
 
History lesson time.

Senator Palpatine of the Galactic Republic is a Sith Lord. He managed to keep this fact hidden for most of his life. He manages to manipulate various peoples and powers into getting them to elect him Chancellor of the Republic, meaning he is nominally in charge of the Senate. (The Phantom Menace)

Move forward a decade. He and another Sith Lord (Dooku) have managed to create a galactic level crisis with thousands of star systems breaking away from the Republic to form a Separatist confederacy due to the corruption of the Republic's senate. Palpatine is seen as not corrupt, but not able to root out the corruption, so the systems start to leave. Civil War brews and the two Sith Lords lead both sides into what is called the Clone Wars. The Jedi are tasked to lead the Republic military against the Separatist. Both sides used manufactured armies (the Republic uses clones while the Separatists use droids....so the majority of the citizens of the galaxy are not actually fighting each other, but their proxy armies are). (Attack of the Clones)

The Clone Wars lasts for a number of years, spreading the Jedi out across the galaxy leading armies of clones. Dooku is eventually killed by Palpatine's star Jedi, Anakin Skywalker, who he has been manipulating into becoming a Sith Lord for over a decade. Palpatine engineers the end of the war by letting the Jedi know he is a Sith. They underestimate him greatly and four masters die while also turning Anakin into a Sith Lord. This Jedi attempt on his life allows Palpatine to order the clones to kill all the Jedi they can find as the Jedi attempted a coup against the Republic. With the Jedi out of his way, Palpatine sends Darth Vader to kill the Separatist leadership and shut down their droid armies, because the Sith no longer need them. Winning the war and recounting the Jedi's betrayal to the Senate, Palpatine declares that he will reorganized the reconstituted Republic into the first Galactic Empire to ensure the galaxy is safe, orderly, and secure in the future. The Senate cheers as Palpatine becomes the Emperor. (The Clone Wars and Revenge of the Sith)

The military forces of the Republic and Separatist now belong to the Empire, which uses it to crush resistance movements and basically enslave the Outer Rim Territories. Palpatine rules, though the majority of the galaxy has no idea he is a Sith Lord. Darth Vader is the Emperor's agent and blatantly a Sith Lord. He reports to the Emperor primarily, and is assigned to regional governors and high ranking military leader on the Emperor's command. Vader's job for the majority of the first two decades of the Empire is to track down the remaining Jedi and train Inquisitors to do the same, because the galaxy his huge. The Imperial Officers don't like Vader because he's not in their chain of command, and he has a habit of arriving when they've failed., meaning he's gonna be choking some of them. However the troopers that Vader leads love him because he goes into battles with them (like the Jedi use to do). His later task is the hunt down the Rebellion against the Empire as they disrupt the New Order the Empire brings. Once the Death Star is completed, the Emperor disbands the Senate and rules via his military directly, removing the last vestige of the Republic from his Empire. (Star Wars: Rebels, Rogue One, A New Hope, and The Empire Strikes Back)

The Sith wanted to rule the galaxy (again). They get this via their Galactic Empire after manipulating the Republic into setting it self up to be the Empire in the first place. It is the Sith's revenge after a thousand years since their last major Empire was defeated by the Republic and the Jedi (with only one Sith survivor back then, who made a Rule of Two code for the Sith Lords. This allowed them time and managed to make each Sith Lord more powerful that almost any of the thousands of Jedi across the galaxy. The Sith were patient.) Palpatine rules the galaxy and can do whatever he wants to do. What we don't really know yet is, what was he doing? What was his plan....did he even have one after "kill all the Jedi"?
 
I thought you said the Emporer formed the Empire. If the Senate gave him the power, then was the Empire not already there
Before the Empire and the Emperor there was the Republic. The Empire and the position of Emperor come into existence at pretty much the same time.
 
You have to understand that Star Wars wasn't structured to make any kind of critical thinking sense. :)
 
Thanks, Ithekro, it was way more than I needed (I had pushed a lot of that bullcrap from the new trilogy out of my mind), but at least it cleared it up almost completely.

I guess now my only lingering question is why the Sith want to rule the galaxy. I guess it's your standard evil super villain thing, "I will rule the universe!"
 
The Sith had ruled the galaxy in the distant past. Ruling it again was a long term goal. In theory they wanted to bring order to the galaxy. A structured system of rule rather than the usual chaos and corruption of the Senate, or the natural passive was of the Jedi. The Sith were for order rather than chaos...or at least that is what Vader likes to think. Palpatine keeps his thoughts to himself mostly.
 
Hum. Well, I guess that just brings up even mroe questions, but this is just me thinking aloud, not expecting any actual answers:

* If a structured rule is the idea, why does it have to be forced on everyone?

* Why do they have to attain it constantly with murder and domination?

* Why can't it be a peaceful coallition?

* Why can't worlds that don't want to be a part of it, not be a part of it?

* Why does it have to encompass so many worlds across great distances? Why can't that structured rule be in a certain area?

* Why after so much failure, murder, and coersion, do they not realise the way they've gone about it for so long hasn't cease choas but created it and structured something worse than the Senate could have ever done?

* What if the Empire decides they don't need the Sith? What do the Sith do then? Do they have the numbers and power to force their continued rule?


And so forth and so on. Again, not expecting answers. The more the second trilogy is thought about, the more Lucas manages to piss me off. It's more like he was riding a crashing X-Wing into a planet while shouting in excitment and waving about a hat.
 
* If a structured rule is the idea, why does it have to be forced on everyone?

* Why do they have to attain it constantly with murder and domination?

* Why can't it be a peaceful coallition?

* Why can't worlds that don't want to be a part of it, not be a part of it?

* Why does it have to encompass so many worlds across great distances? Why can't that structured rule be in a certain area?

* Why after so much failure, murder, and coersion, do they not realise the way they've gone about it for so long hasn't cease choas but created it and structured something worse than the Senate could have ever done?

* What if the Empire decides they don't need the Sith? What do the Sith do then? Do they have the numbers and power to force their continued rule?
Because anyone outside the structure is a problem.
The Emperor is the Sith. Therefore the Sith is the Empire.
 
Hum. Well, I guess that just brings up even mroe questions, but this is just me thinking aloud, not expecting any actual answers:

(cut for later)

And so forth and so on. Again, not expecting answers. The more the second trilogy is thought about, the more Lucas manages to piss me off. It's more like he was riding a crashing X-Wing into a planet while shouting in excitment and waving about a hat.

This may not be the entire answers, just what I can remember.

* If a structured rule is the idea, why does it have to be forced on everyone?

The Sith tend to hold that their way is the only way that should be allowed. Add to this greed and the will to control everything that was once the Republic and you have an Empire that spans about two-thirds of the galaxy.

* Why do they have to attain it constantly with murder and domination?

Because they don't have enough forces to rule everything directly and orderly...so they use fear instead.

* Why can't it be a peaceful coallition?

"What are you some sort of Jedi?"
Actually it is because the Empire rises out of the ashes of the Republic and the Clone Wars. They spend the first decade or so suppressing the former Separatist Worlds and occupying them until such time as they fully submit to the Emperor's rule and the New Order. There are also those worlds that harbored Jedi or supported the Jedi, which are considered enemies of the Empire and traitors. They are hunted down and those that helped them punished harshly. Then the rebellions start and the oppression continues.

* Why can't worlds that don't want to be a part of it, not be a part of it?

Because that was what the Clone Wars was supposedly fought over. The galaxy cannot afford to be divided as it causes conflict and chaos, thus the whole must be made one and orderly. No matter how many suffer and die to gain that order. Or at least that is what we are lead to believe by the Empire.

* Why does it have to encompass so many worlds across great distances? Why can't that structured rule be in a certain area?

Again because of the Clone War and the situation that lead up to it. The galaxy must be whole and controlled to prevent more galaxy spanning wars, as iron rule will end all war. Or it will once everyone is so fearful of the consequences of defying the Empire that no one would dare going against it (hence the Death Star).

* Why after so much failure, murder, and coercion, do they not realize the way they've gone about it for so long hasn't cease chaos but created it and structured something worse than the Senate could have ever done?

The Empire was to rule through fear when it could not rule through other means. The Rebellion against the Empire was relatively small and considered a nuisance to the Empire compared to the Separatist movement from the Clone Wars. the Rebels were something to be hunted down and slaughtered. Once that was done and a Death Star was in service, the rule through fear would be complete and no one would dare oppose the Empire. Or at least that was the theory.

* What if the Empire decides they don't need the Sith? What do the Sith do then? Do they have the numbers and power to force their continued rule?

The Emperor designed his empire to not be able to function without him. Remove him and the military governors and high admirals and generals will fight for control and the Empire will implode. The Emperor has enough people loyal to him, and him alone, to ensure his continued rule. He by himself is extremely powerful, not only in the Force but with his ability to manipulate people to do his bidding even if they don't realize they are working for him. Should the Empire decide they don't need Palpatine and do kill him, the Emperor set up plenty of contingency plans to make sure they cannot have his Empire (Scorched Earth policies). Several of these started to happen after his actual death at Endor, which the New Republic had to deal with. The Empire fell on itself, with what remained heading into the Unknown Regions for reasons unknown (we will likely find out more in The Last Jedi or Episode IX)

There is potentially other reasons for Palpatine to rule the way his did and for his massive military expansion following the Clone Wars, but that information has not come out. Only hints that there was something important on Jakku and in the Unknown Regions that caused Palpatine to be concerned.

Vader is useful to the Emperor, but is not necessary for the Empire to survive. He can be replaced.
 
Word is that Emperor Palpatine was preparing the galaxy for a massive invasion, and eventually an extra-galactic race known as the Yuuzhan Vong did just that. But that's all extended universe stuff from the novels.
 
History lesson time.

Senator Palpatine of the Galactic Republic is a Sith Lord. He managed to keep this fact hidden for most of his life. He manages to manipulate various peoples and powers into getting them to elect him Chancellor of the Republic, meaning he is nominally in charge of the Senate. (The Phantom Menace)

Move forward a decade. He and another Sith Lord (Dooku) have managed to create a galactic level crisis with thousands of star systems breaking away from the Republic to form a Separatist confederacy due to the corruption of the Republic's senate. Palpatine is seen as not corrupt, but not able to root out the corruption, so the systems start to leave. Civil War brews and the two Sith Lords lead both sides into what is called the Clone Wars. The Jedi are tasked to lead the Republic military against the Separatist. Both sides used manufactured armies (the Republic uses clones while the Separatists use droids....so the majority of the citizens of the galaxy are not actually fighting each other, but their proxy armies are). (Attack of the Clones)

The Clone Wars lasts for a number of years, spreading the Jedi out across the galaxy leading armies of clones. Dooku is eventually killed by Palpatine's star Jedi, Anakin Skywalker, who he has been manipulating into becoming a Sith Lord for over a decade. Palpatine engineers the end of the war by letting the Jedi know he is a Sith. They underestimate him greatly and four masters die while also turning Anakin into a Sith Lord. This Jedi attempt on his life allows Palpatine to order the clones to kill all the Jedi they can find as the Jedi attempted a coup against the Republic. With the Jedi out of his way, Palpatine sends Darth Vader to kill the Separatist leadership and shut down their droid armies, because the Sith no longer need them. Winning the war and recounting the Jedi's betrayal to the Senate, Palpatine declares that he will reorganized the reconstituted Republic into the first Galactic Empire to ensure the galaxy is safe, orderly, and secure in the future. The Senate cheers as Palpatine becomes the Emperor. (The Clone Wars and Revenge of the Sith)

The military forces of the Republic and Separatist now belong to the Empire, which uses it to crush resistance movements and basically enslave the Outer Rim Territories. Palpatine rules, though the majority of the galaxy has no idea he is a Sith Lord. Darth Vader is the Emperor's agent and blatantly a Sith Lord. He reports to the Emperor primarily, and is assigned to regional governors and high ranking military leader on the Emperor's command. Vader's job for the majority of the first two decades of the Empire is to track down the remaining Jedi and train Inquisitors to do the same, because the galaxy his huge. The Imperial Officers don't like Vader because he's not in their chain of command, and he has a habit of arriving when they've failed., meaning he's gonna be choking some of them. However the troopers that Vader leads love him because he goes into battles with them (like the Jedi use to do). His later task is the hunt down the Rebellion against the Empire as they disrupt the New Order the Empire brings. Once the Death Star is completed, the Emperor disbands the Senate and rules via his military directly, removing the last vestige of the Republic from his Empire. (Star Wars: Rebels, Rogue One, A New Hope, and The Empire Strikes Back)

The Sith wanted to rule the galaxy (again). They get this via their Galactic Empire after manipulating the Republic into setting it self up to be the Empire in the first place. It is the Sith's revenge after a thousand years since their last major Empire was defeated by the Republic and the Jedi (with only one Sith survivor back then, who made a Rule of Two code for the Sith Lords. This allowed them time and managed to make each Sith Lord more powerful that almost any of the thousands of Jedi across the galaxy. The Sith were patient.) Palpatine rules the galaxy and can do whatever he wants to do. What we don't really know yet is, what was he doing? What was his plan....did he even have one after "kill all the Jedi"?
In the no longer canon Legends EU, it turned out that at least some of what Palpatine did was to prepare the galaxy for the arrival of extra-galactic invaders known as the Yuuzhan Vong. But that whole version of the Star Wars Universe was declared non-canon when Disney bought Lucasfilm and decided to take things in a different direction with the new trilogy and anthology movies.
 
Which is why there is still some mystery about what Palpatine was trying to do with his Empire, as there are still hints the new canon that he was preparing for something long term, but what is unknown at this time.
 
The Emperor designed his empire to not be able to function without him. Remove him and the military governors and high admirals and generals will fight for control and the Empire will implode. The Emperor has enough people loyal to him, and him alone, to ensure his continued rule. He by himself is extremely powerful, not only in the Force but with his ability to manipulate people to do his bidding even if they don't realize they are working for him. Should the Empire decide they don't need Palpatine and do kill him, the Emperor set up plenty of contingency plans to make sure they cannot have his Empire (Scorched Earth policies). Several of these started to happen after his actual death at Endor, which the New Republic had to deal with. The Empire fell on itself, with what remained heading into the Unknown Regions for reasons unknown (we will likely find out more in The Last Jedi or Episode IX)

That's understandable, but if anything history as taught us -- and this is history that wouldn't be unique to the human race -- is that:

1. There are always attempts to shift power, no matter how powerful or for how long the previous rule was.

2. Regardless of whether the Empire is designed to fall apart with the Emporer, history shows that the most well organized bad guy will persevere in the power vacuum, and old orders can be replaced with new-structured ones.


I think what the Emporer put in place is tenuous at best and seems to rely solely on the compliance of men and women who actually make the Emprie work. Also, you can pick him up and throw him into a deep hole as long as you can take some Force lightning for a bit, so there's that.

Now Disney is riding that crashing X-Wing, waving a Micky Mous ears hat.
 
1. There are always attempts to shift power, no matter how powerful or for how long the previous rule was.

2. Regardless of whether the Empire is designed to fall apart with the Emporer, history shows that the most well organized bad guy will persevere in the power vacuum, and old orders can be replaced with new-structured ones.
You've seen the Force Awaken, right?
 
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