Sisko in RBoE..... SPOILERS!!!!!

[Mage]

It's a pitty people are so mad about Sisko's path in RBoE. I know so many people wanted him to have a happy ever-after, but in a way a lot of it makes sense, IMO. And as for it being out of character for him to...

Spoiler: Sisko's actions during RBoE

walk away from his family and friends after a traumatic exprerience, he did the same thing at the end of season 6. And before people say he went to Earth to be with his family, he basicly completely ignored them during his stay there, distancing himself from his father and Jake. He was quite happy soaking in his misery in a way.
Leaving Kassidy and Rebecca behind because he was in a state of depression and basicly running away is NOT something un-Sisko to do. He's done it before, running away from his problems and his loved ones.

And let's please not forget that it's been 3 or 4 years between The Soul Key and RBoE. Who knows what happened between then and RBoE? During Fearfull Symmetry and The Soul Key Sisko is already 'aware' of something happening, something very unsetteling to him. We can, at the moment, only imagine what this does to him.

Personally, although I found it shocking and sad that Sisko had to do the things he did during RBoE, for me it's not a reason to start hating the character or the writer of the novell. If anything, it made me more curious as to what happened to Sisko that made him do what he did.


So basicly, it's not that weird for him to react the way he did.

 

[T'Ressa Dax]

Totally agreed, and I haven't even read the novel yet.

 

[shanejayell]

Hell, go back to 'Emissary.' Sisko wasn't DEALING with his wife's death and ran away from it, eventually ending up at DS9.

Apparently therapy from the Prophets didn't fix that habit....

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I agree. While I was disturbed by Sisko's decisions and overall mindset in Rough Beasts, that isn't a criticism of the novel. I'm concerned for the character, but I don't feel the author has erred. Sisko's abnormal behaviour in the book is - as you argue, Mage - within the boundaries of his established out-of-character moments.

SPOILERS FOLLOW:


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Some people say Sisko would never abandon his family given how important they are to him. But if he can leave his front-line command post in the middle of a major war in order to play piano for a month (when we know how seriously he takes his service to the Federation), all due to a sense of personal failure, then I'm not shocked (though saddened) to see him leave his family. Sisko already had an established tendency to be somewhat self-destructive in his grief, dropping everything important to him and fleeing into solitude. Add to that his knowledge of the Prophets - his experience as one of them - and the resulting fact that he knows "knowing nothing but sorrow" is to be his future...well. It doesn't surprise me that he's had another "can't confront this, must leave and seal myself away" episode.

Sisko's also frightened that if he's to know "only sorrow", it can come about only through terrible harm to others...unless he takes control of his fate by deliberately making his own sorrow in a way that only encompases him (well, mostly - he knows he's hurting others by leaving, but it's the lesser of two evils in his mind, I guess). By running, he's convinced himself that he's protecting what matters to him - his family, his friends, Bajor. Is he right? No idea, and I'm disturbed by his choices, but as you say, Mage, he already has an established tendency to "drop everything and run off to be alone".

Sisko doesn't want to destroy others by having his sorrow strike them too. Not just family, but Bajor. I mean, Bajor's in a good place now, apparently. It's a valued Federation member, a popular tourist destination, it's prosperous and so on. And who knows what great spiritual revelations took place during the Ascendant conflict? Given that it seems to be resolved now, things are looking better for Bajor than they have...well, ever. Sisko helped set much of that up as Emissary. But if he stays now the work is done, he's scared it will damage that outcome. And he was told by the Prophets, he will "find no rest there (on Bajor)". Basically, Sisko seems to be convinced that he's almost cursed - cursed with a fate of sorrow and restlessness - and must live in quarantine lest other people and places be touched with it.

Where the novels are going with all this, I don't know. I certainly hope Sisko can reclaim his life a second time and that he'll overturn his judgements in this novel. But just because he's currently at a low it doesn't mean he's "ruined forever!". I mean, Avatar opened with Kira quite depressive, if I remember correctly, but that was just the jump-off point for a very fulfilling arc of character development.

 

[DigificWriter]

I offered my thoughts on Sisko's role in RBoe in the 'official' review thread for that novel, but will re-post them here as well:
I actually liked what DRG did with regards to Sisko, and found it both believable and understandable. One of the main reasons I didn't have issues with it the way that some others have is because it was an echo/mirror of the situation in which Kristen Beyer places Tom, B'Elanna, and Miral in Full Circle; the primary difference is that, in Sisko's case, the separation from his wife and child is literal as opposed to being part of an elaborate hoax as is the case with regards to Tom's separation from B'Elanna and Miral.

Another thing that I liked about what DRG did with regards to Sisko is that he left open the possibility - however slim - that circumstances might one day lead Sisko back to the people and places he'd left behind and allow him to rebuild the relationships that he deliberately abandoned/left broken.

Even if that never happens, though, DRG definitely leaves Sisko in a place where future authors can take his characterization in a positive new direction.

 

[Christopher]

Excellent points, everyone.

 

[Warp Coil]

Another thing that I liked about what DRG did with regards to Sisko is that he left open the possibility - however slim - that circumstances might one day lead Sisko back to the people and places he'd left behind and allow him to rebuild the relationships that he deliberately abandoned/left broken.

I wasn't thrilled with Sisko's development in the novel. However, I definitely think that it would serve as an interesting setup to allow for his eventual return to DS9, Bajor and to the Prophets. I feel as if the Prophets did what they did for a reason, and that eventually Sisko will take up the title of Emissary again, when he is needed. I see no point in making Sisko just another typical Starfleet captain. His connection to Bajor is a huge component of his character, and any permanent abandoning of it would be ridiculous.

 

[JD]

Yeah. I haven't actually read the book yet, but I still doubt very much that this is a permanent thing. I really think once he works through his issues he'll go back home to Bajor and his family.

 

[DigificWriter]

I don't know if he'll ever 'go back' to Kasidy and Rebecca given the way that the book ends, but re-establishing some type of contact with them isn't out of the question, IMO, were a future author so inclined.

 

[Cybersnark]

I agree with what everyone else is saying; I like Sisko, and definitely want to see him return to Bajor and his family (and I think that someone needs to smack some sense into his thick skull), but being a Star Wars fan has taught me that meaningful happiness can only happen after the Dark Times, never before. There must be despair, or joy means nothing. You can't get The Clone Wars without sitting through the Prequels.

My only real complaint is the fanwankish physical change (regrowing his hair and shaving the beard). It didn't really add anything to the story other than to justify a S1-era Sisko on the cover.

 

[Christopher]

^How is that "fanwankish?" Doesn't that term usually refer to indulging the fans' desires to a gratuitous or excessive degree? I can't imagine most fans want Sisko to go back to his old look. I'd say that was done to represent him going back to a less confident place, like where he was at the start of DS9.

 

[Sjaddix]

Honestly I agree, I don't think anyone was clamoring for him to go back to that look.

Still as long as he is command is competent and he performs at least combat wise like a Hero Captain (Main Character Show Captain). And not like he did during the Borg Invasion, I am fine with the direction for now.

 

[flemm]

walk away from his family and friends after a traumatic exprerience, he did the same thing at the end of season 6. And before people say he went to Earth to be with his family, he basicly completely ignored them during his stay there, distancing himself from his father and Jake. He was quite happy soaking in his misery in a way.

That situation is not comparable to what happens in RBoE. Even if we accept your statement that Sisko was distancing himself from his family even though he went home to be close to them (which is largely conjecture on your part in any event), that is a far cry from walking away from his wife and four year old daughter. It would be more accurate to say that, at the end of season 6, Sisko needed to be close to his family because they were part of the mystery he needed to unravel. There is tension between Sisko and his father in particular, but that is commonly the case in family relations. That's not the same thing as neglect, and especially the neglect of a young daughter who needs her father in her life.

As for his responsibility to Starfleet, Sisko took a hiatus from his job because he had reason to believe that he could no longer perform it adequately until he had sorted out his relationship to the Prophets (as demonstrated at the battle of Chintoka). Thus, stepping down temporarily was the responsible choice, not an irresponsible one.

Sisko's situation in the pilot isn't strongly analagous to RBoE either. He isn't running from anything. He's refusing to let go of his grief, which is another thing entirely. And, even in these circumstances, he is doing everything he can to be a great father to Jake.

To the extent that there is anything comparable to RBoE in the DS9 television series, it's what happens at the very end: Sisko does indeed leave his family behind to defeat Dukat and the Pagh Wraith. But the fate of Bajor and the alpha quadrant is at stake here, so it's the Emissary-esque equivalent of going into battle against the Dominion (which also requires Sisko to leave his family to possibly never return): he's doing his duty to protect his family, and a lot of other innocent lives.

That last scenario seems to be what DRGIII had in mind in RBoE, i.e. the idea was to create another Prophet-related situation where Sisko is forced to abandon his family to save their lives. It's not a bad concept, but the execution was poor because the reasons given for Sisko's conduct are flimsy at best. Most glaringly, they all have to do with Sisko needing to divorce Kasidy. None of them have anything to do with Sisko's relationship to Rebecca, which is hardly even addressed in the novel. It doesn't matter how many good reasons Sisko believes he has to divorce Kasidy, none of that frees him from his responsibility to his daughter, which is something Sisko, who was a single parent for an extended period, would be more sensitive to than most. However, the issue is hardly even raised in the novel, except in a passing reference where Sisko thinks to himself something to the effect that he hopes Kasidy can help Rebecca get over his departure in time. LoL?

This indicates that he has no intention of contacting her at any time in the foreseeable future, if ever, even though he has no reason not to do so.

For this creative choice to work, the reasons for Sisko's conduct had to be rock solid, and they weren't.

 

[DigificWriter]

For this creative choice to work, the reasons for Sisko's conduct had to be rock solid, and they weren't.

Can you please not make 'blanket statements' like this? It's my single biggest pet peeve, and really undermines the credibility of anyone who does it.

Going deeper into my own thoughts on Sisko's character arc as set up and established by RBoE, I would agree that there's really nothing that you can directly compare it to from the canon, but that's fine so long as it builds on the canon, which, IMO, this new arc for Sisko does. I've seen people describe Sisko's behavior in RBoE as being 'out of character', but I don't personally feel that that is an entirely correct criticism to level against the character because it is extremely subjective and can come across as a product of narrow-mindedness.

My only real complaint is the fanwankish physical change (regrowing his hair and shaving the beard). It didn't really add anything to the story other than to justify a S1-era Sisko on the cover.

To quote the venerable Inego Monto, "You keep using that word; I do not think it means what you think it means."

From the Wikipedia article on continuity:
"When continuity mistakes have been made, explanations are often proposed by either writers or fans to smooth over discrepancies. Fans sometimes make up explanations for such errors that may or may not be integrated into canon; this has come to be colloquially known as fanwanking."

DRG's decision to have Sisko grow back his hair and shave his goatee is not, by that definition, a 'fanwank'.

 

[Mage]

Flemm, have you even read the novell? Sisko didn't return to his wife and child after the borg invasion to be close to them, he didn't even want to go, but felt he should. He does still love them, but couldn't be with them anymore.

And he never took a hiatus from Starfleet, he left. They reinstated him because they needed officers and asked him to come back. He always planned on leaving the fleet when the war was over.
Events before the borg invasion already had an impact on his relation with Kassidy. Events during the invasion (loosing a good friend) only fed his depression. After all that had happened between him and Kass (which we don't know what it all is just yet) and him losing his connection with the Prophets made him want to leave, because for some reason he felt that staying with his wife and child would only lead to unhappiness for them all.

 

[toughlittleship]

Slightly off topic, but I was wondering for who the Robinson was named for.

 

[DarKush]

I hated what was done to Sisko in RBoE. I also think Season 6 opener is a poor comparison. As it was stated before he did go home, he didn't jump on a starship and run away. Plus, he didn't have a wife and child he was leaving in a lurch. Jake was a grown man. The way RBoE Sisko treated his family, the way he dropped responsibility, for his marriage, for his dad's funeral, was just deplorable.

And it went against one of the things Avery Brooks fought for. The writers altered Sisko's destiny because Brooks explictly didn't want Sisko to be seen as abandoning his family. RBoE pretty much overturned that. I'm sure some might argue that what Brooks wanted didn't matter, but it mattered enough to the writers, to canon Trek, to be included, and it feels like a slap in the face to go against that.

Sisko knew the risks of marrying Kasidy going in and he did it anyway. He defied the Prophets and 'fate.' I didn't see him running away when things got hard. I can't see him ever just leaving his family like that, of his own accord. But RBoE Sisko is far more fearful.And for him to not even talk to Kasidy about it, to just duck out, and ask Kira to watch her for him.

And then he was a dick to the Robinson crew as well. It just felt like a character assassination all the way around. It was a deconstruction, a reversion of his character. Well, it wasn't even a reversion. He might have shut down when Jennifer died, but he never turned his back on Jake. He didn't pass Jake off to Joseph Sisko and go about his merry way. Even with Dax's death, Sisko went home but he never abandoned his family. Conversely I felt Elias Vaughn was lionized in comparison in RBoE. He came off as a better commander against the Borg and made the big, heroic noble sacrifice.

I think the comparison many of RBoE's defenders make about this path chosen by DRG or a happy, happy life for Sisko is a false choice. I want him to be challenged, I don't want an easy ride, but I want him to be a man I can look up to, a man I can respect, a commander willing to face his responsiblities and act accordingly. The Sisko on DS9 and in most of the novels, comics, etc. was such a person. RBoE Sisko was not. Also, DRG didn't do any justice to Kasidy's character either. She's far more of a fighter, but by having Sisko take such a drastic step, and not really revisiting Kasidy afterward, RBoE marginalized her. I would've much rather seen this scrappy couple take on fate rather than have Sisko run away and Kasidy seemingly do nothing about it, not even trying to find him, or contact him, to ask/demand why. Also, where was Jake during all of this? It would've been great to see his perspective. I think DRG dropped the ball on really doing something interesting with the Sisko family.

And let me be 100% real here, it bothered me that RBoE took Star Trek's most well developed black character, a character noted for his great relationship with his son, for being a family man, and turned him into a dead beat dad, a portrayal I see far too much in the media. While Picard, a man who didn't get along well with children at the start of TNG, gets to be the doting father. DRG trashed Sisko's character, and for what exactly?

Did DRG set up a great storyline for him, not really. Did he populate the Robinson with interesting characters or make the ship gee whiz cool, a la Aventine, so that we at least have the possibility of having it show up in other Trek novels? No. It's like DRG has put Sisko on a shelf somewhere, he's removed him off the board. And when I come to think about it, the same was done to Kira and Elias Vaughn too.

I think part of the problem was this story really was two separate stories, disjointedly connected. Each deserved their own separate novel. Maybe we would've gotten more of Kasidy and Jake's perspectives in a separate novel, though I am doubtful.

 

[Christopher]

And it went against one of the things Avery Brooks fought for. The writers altered Sisko's destiny because Brooks explictly didn't want Sisko to be seen as abandoning his family. RBoE pretty much overturned that.

Except, as has been pointed out many times already, Sisko didn't abandon his family, he left them because he sincerely believed they'd be safer without him. If a man goes off to war in order to protect his family, is that abandoning them? He is taking responsibility for his family, not evading it. At least, that's what he believes. So it's really not fair to play the "deadbeat dad" card in judging this. One could argue that Kasidy and Rebecca wouldn't feel there was a difference, but Sisko's own intentions have nothing to do with shirking responsibility.

It just felt like a character assassination all the way around. It was a deconstruction, a reversion of his character. Well, it wasn't even a reversion. He might have shut down when Jennifer died, but he never turned his back on Jake. He didn't pass Jake off to Joseph Sisko and go about his merry way.

Because at the time, he hadn't been given a prophecy telling him that his family would only know sorrow if he stayed with them. It's not a comparable situation. The last thing Sisko wants is to be apart from his family, but the way he sees it is, the Prophets actually know the future, perceive it directly, and have told him that his family's screwed if he stays with them. What would a loving, devoted family man do if he knew for a concrete fact that his family would suffer if he didn't leave them? What constitutes a good option in that scenario? Unless you can answer that question, you shouldn't condemn Sisko.

 

[DarKush]

Where is the prophecy that says his family would only know sorrow if he stayed with them? I thought it was Sisko himself that would only know sorrow. Sisko is not going off to war, he's not going to the Celestial Temple to talk to the Prophets about this, he is running away point blank, afraid of a prophecy that might not ever come true or might not come true in the way he might think.

As for the 'dead beat card', oh yeah it makes more sense for him to run from his family to keep them safe. (rolls eyes) It seems like he would want to be around them regardless to keep them safe. Or at least explain to them what he is doing and why he's doing it, and make sure they are adequately looked after. We don't get that with Sisko outside of him asking Kira to explain what he should to Kasidy and then he cuts off almost all contact until the end of the story.

I think it would be nice to take Kasidy's feelings into account, but DRG doesn't, or at least he doesn't allow the character any page space to share her experiences.

I haven't condemned Sisko, Mr. George has IMO.

 

[Christopher]

^David himself answered your questions better than I could in the earlier review thread on this forum. Here's the link to the thread:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=134050