Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

[SpocksLeftEar]

Here I am, starting a thread in The Next Generation Forum, and posting about the sheer amazing talent, the awesomeness, of The Great Patrick Stewart AND how he's an inspiration to all! ... I certainly wasn't expecting ... this!

You stated an opinion, not a fact. This of course leads to other people stating their opinion. Some agree with, some don't. If you don't to hear criticism just don't start a thread like this. It's that easy.

 

[SpocksLeftEar]

It's also possible that Shatner is perceived as a lesser actor just because he never turned down a role. That put him in some questionable productions, but he never failed to give it his best.

If that's the case people should consider that Michael Caine has done some really questionable work. But maybe these folks still live with their parents and never had to earn money to pay their rent. Maybe then they would stop thinking this way.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Patrick Stewart and his acting abilities are hugely overrated. He takes himself far too seriously, and this has become worse since TNG made him famous. I don't see how his acting has lead to making his colleagues better actors. Gates McFadden was never a convincing Doctor, while Diana Muldaur made Stewart look like a rookie.
All the other actors were good and they became better when the writers began to realize what to do with them (like stopping with Marina Sirtis feeling "Pain" and "Anger" all the time). This had nothing to do with Stewart. In fact when you look at Nemesis where he was one of the producers he put himself even more into the middle of the action while his colleagues were reduced to a few scenes (except for Spiner, but he was also a producer).

That's an interesting ... opinion!

 

[Shat Happens]

Also, Kirk is better than Picard

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Why do people excuse Shatner's acting with "Well, that's his training in theatre!".

Where did Sir Patrick learn the craft again? Oh, right.

I guess that can't be the excuse then...

 

[2takesfrakes]

I don't excuse Shatner's acting, at all. He's always been hammy, that's "what you get," with him. That's the product. The scarey part about that though, is ... he's almost the only one from STAR TREK's original series who managed to have any further career! What's that say for the 2nd bananas? Nevermind, I don't want to know. What I do know is that Patrick Stewart has incredible range. He's always juggled being a leading man and a character actor very well. For instance, in his performance as Duncan Idaho, there's no trace of Jean Luc Picard and vice versa. Whereas, William Shatner's Admiral James T. Kirk and T.J. Hooker are one in the same. The very same ...

 

[Nerys Myk]

I don't excuse Shatner's acting, at all. He's always been hammy, that's "what you get," with him. That's the product. The scarey part about that though, is ... he's almost the only one from STAR TREK's original series who managed to have any further career! What's that say for the 2nd bananas? Nevermind, I don't want to know. What I do know is that Patrick Stewart has incredible range. He's always juggled being a leading man and a character actor very well. For instance, in his performance as Duncan Idaho, there's no trace of Jean Luc Picard and vice versa. Whereas, William Shatner's Admiral James T. Kirk and T.J. Hooker are one in the same. The very same ...

If you look at Stewart's pre-Trek film career he's mostly in supporting roles and not always secondary ones, either. And in Dune he played Gurney Halleck, not Duncan Idaho. With out Trek he'd probably continued to be in supporting character parts in films.

 

[Amaris]

^ Very true. Star Trek gave him the boost he needed to gain better visibility, and it worked in his favor.

 

[desfem79]

Patrick Stewart and his acting abilities are hugely overrated. He takes himself far too seriously, and this has become worse since TNG made him famous. I don't see how his acting has lead to making his colleagues better actors. Gates McFadden was never a convincing Doctor, while Diana Muldaur made Stewart look like a rookie.
All the other actors were good and they became better when the writers began to realize what to do with them (like stopping with Marina Sirtis feeling "Pain" and "Anger" all the time). This had nothing to do with Stewart. In fact when you look at Nemesis where he was one of the producers he put himself even more into the middle of the action while his colleagues were reduced to a few scenes (except for Spiner, but he was also a producer).

I would say the best acted episodes were from Sir Stewart, but then in the films this was consciously done by Berman and co. IMO. Even Generations was Picard heavy (of the TNG cast at the least), and it makes sense in a way since as the shows are ensemble casts, Captains are still seen as the principal characters.

 

[desfem79]

I don't excuse Shatner's acting, at all. He's always been hammy, that's "what you get," with him. That's the product. The scarey part about that though, is ... he's almost the only one from STAR TREK's original series who managed to have any further career! What's that say for the 2nd bananas? Nevermind, I don't want to know. What I do know is that Patrick Stewart has incredible range. He's always juggled being a leading man and a character actor very well. For instance, in his performance as Duncan Idaho, there's no trace of Jean Luc Picard and vice versa. Whereas, William Shatner's Admiral James T. Kirk and T.J. Hooker are one in the same. The very same ...

If you look at Stewart's pre-Trek film career he's mostly in supporting roles and not always secondary ones, either. And in Dune he played Gurney Halleck, not Duncan Idaho. With out Trek he'd probably continued to be in supporting character parts in films.

He's said publicly that he wasn't looking for Hollywood work, and was content to just do Shakespeare and other British literary works on the stage. I think story is that an American Shakespeare body invited him as an RSC speaker, Roddenberry saw him and the rest is history. Even still as a fellow Brit, I'd say he's one of our greatest living actors. Only Sir Anthony Hopkins, Sir Ian McKellen, Jeremy Irons and Sir Michael Caine are on a par.

 

[desfem79]

I don't excuse Shatner's acting, at all. He's always been hammy, that's "what you get," with him. That's the product. The scarey part about that though, is ... he's almost the only one from STAR TREK's original series who managed to have any further career! What's that say for the 2nd bananas? Nevermind, I don't want to know. What I do know is that Patrick Stewart has incredible range. He's always juggled being a leading man and a character actor very well. For instance, in his performance as Duncan Idaho, there's no trace of Jean Luc Picard and vice versa. Whereas, William Shatner's Admiral James T. Kirk and T.J. Hooker are one in the same. The very same ...

I have to be honest and say that I've never seen a Shatner piece and thought "Damn!" I think because TOS was groundbreaking and he was the lead, it made him famous. And he was handsome (I'm not gay, but I'm sure a lot of women would have thought so in the 60s, even today if watching a TOS re-run) so of course he had that in his favour.

Whilst Avery Brooks is not A-list per se, he's a better actor than Shatner by a country mile IMO.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Yes! That story of, well not Roddenberry, but Robert Justman (?) seeing Picard reading at a lecture and insisting he be casted is yet another inspirational story about Sir Patrick Stewart. Again, his talent was evident and it was recognized and he received so much acclaim for it. If we just do what we do well and enjoy doing, even at the behest of others, you never know how that might pay off for you. In this country, talent does get rewarded, but not always through the usual avenues. If we but apply ourselves at whatever our passion is, somebody's going to notice that ... and by the way, Jeremy Irons is The Best! I love him in that old FLASH GORDON movie, looking like C-3PO in a black robe, and in cahoots with the Mingers! The kind of bad guy you love to hate! He's great ...

 

[Shat Happens]

Whichever, Shatner or the other guy, is the better actor, is endlessly debatable and bordeline pointless (but the answer is Shatner). However, I do believe you don't know the meaning of the word "standard".

The answer in this case, is Shatner+Nimoy.

 

[Khan444]

I don't excuse Shatner's acting, at all. He's always been hammy, that's "what you get," with him. That's the product. The scarey part about that though, is ... he's almost the only one from STAR TREK's original series who managed to have any further career! What's that say for the 2nd bananas? Nevermind, I don't want to know. What I do know is that Patrick Stewart has incredible range. He's always juggled being a leading man and a character actor very well. For instance, in his performance as Duncan Idaho, there's no trace of Jean Luc Picard and vice versa. Whereas, William Shatner's Admiral James T. Kirk and T.J. Hooker are one in the same. The very same ...

If you look at Stewart's pre-Trek film career he's mostly in supporting roles and not always secondary ones, either. And in Dune he played Gurney Halleck, not Duncan Idaho. With out Trek he'd probably continued to be in supporting character parts in films.

He's said publicly that he wasn't looking for Hollywood work, and was content to just do Shakespeare and other British literary works on the stage. I think story is that an American Shakespeare body invited him as an RSC speaker, Roddenberry saw him and the rest is history. Even still as a fellow Brit, I'd say he's one of our greatest living actors. Only Sir Anthony Hopkins, Sir Ian McKellen, Jeremy Irons and Sir Michael Caine are on a par.

Daniel Day-Lewis, Gary Oldman, Alan Rickman, Sir Ben Kingsley, Idris Elba, and Christian Bale all say hello.

 

[Amaris]

Whichever, Shatner or the other guy, is the better actor, is endlessly debatable and bordeline pointless (but the answer is Shatner). However, I do believe you don't know the meaning of the word "standard".

The answer in this case, is Shatner+Nimoy.

Bill Shatner can be exceptional when the situation calls for it. There are episode of "Boston Legal" where he plays Denny Crane, and his performance is so engrossing (and often heart rending), you can see all of the false pomposity, the zaniness of his character, just ripped away, and it's just bare for all to see.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Whichever, Shatner or the other guy, is the better actor, is endlessly debatable and bordeline pointless (but the answer is Shatner). However, I do believe you don't know the meaning of the word "standard".

The answer in this case, is Shatner+Nimoy.

Bill Shatner can be exceptional when the situation calls for it. There are episode of "Boston Legal" where he plays Denny Crane, and his performance is so engrossing (and often heart rending), you can see all of the false pomposity, the zaniness of his character, just ripped away, and it's just bare for all to see.

He been nominated seven times for an Emmy and won twice (six for Denny Crane) So he must be doing something right.

 

[Makarov]

It's hard for me to believe that some of the powers that be behind TNG didn't want Patrick Stewart at first. It's just crazy to me that they almost missed him and probably would have gone with someone more like Kirk.

 

[Timewalker]

The way I've always figured it, The Original Series was the John the Baptist of STAR TREK, paving the way for the greatness to come: The Next Generation! The campy fun of TOS was an extremely entertaining introduction to the STAR TREK universe, but TNG was the Meat & Potatoes of the franchise. And I'll always be in debt to Gene Roddenberry for giving us both of them!...

Uh-uh. TOS was meat and potatoes. TNG was a pretentious fancy restaurant with fancy prices and food that tasted mediocre at best (unless the chef was having an exceptional day as in "Best of Both Worlds" and "Family," "Yesterday's Enterprise," and "Chain of Command"), and a lot of people said of course it was great because if it wasn't, why were they paying the fancy prices?

He was not an instant hit, for many, including myself it took a while to learn to like him in the part for those of use who remember him in other productions. Dune, I'Claudius mainly.

I first saw Patrick Stewart as Lucius Aelius Sejanus in I, Claudius. He was so deliciously evil and did so many horrible things... yet I felt for the character when he was told his children had been executed. If Stewart could make me feel sorry for a villain getting his just desserts (being executed and his body thrown on the Stairs for the public to mutilate and spit on), I'd say he did a damn fine job of portraying the character.

While not as good as the actor in the miniseries version of Dune/Children of Dune, Patrick Stewart was a credible Gurney Halleck. I'm sure it wasn't his decision to spend most of the movie toting around the Atreides family pug dog.

If Shatner had had an English accent, might his style have been a bit more accepted?

Just because an actor has an English accent, it doesn't mean he's actually good. Take Matt Smith, for example. I know there are a lot of Matt Smith fans here, but I couldn't stand him. Of all the actors who have ever played the Doctor, I think he's the worst.

I don't excuse Shatner's acting, at all. He's always been hammy, that's "what you get," with him. That's the product. The scarey part about that though, is ... he's almost the only one from STAR TREK's original series who managed to have any further career! What's that say for the 2nd bananas? Nevermind, I don't want to know. What I do know is that Patrick Stewart has incredible range. He's always juggled being a leading man and a character actor very well. For instance, in his performance as Duncan Idaho, there's no trace of Jean Luc Picard and vice versa. Whereas, William Shatner's Admiral James T. Kirk and T.J. Hooker are one in the same. The very same ...

Please. If you're going to pontificate about something and include anything about Dune in it, please get your facts right. Patrick Stewart played Gurney Halleck. Duncan Idaho was played by Richard Jordan.

And of course there's no trace of Jean-Luc Picard in Gurney Halleck. Dune was released several years before TNG's first season.

However, I will agree that Patrick Stewart has an excellent range. I enjoyed his performance in Lady Jane, and he was excellent in Robin Hood: Men in Tights (brief as that appearance was).

I saw the early T.J. Hooker episodes and thought Shatner was very good in them. I didn't see the whole series (wasn't into cop shows at the time), but my grandfather never missed a single one.

I have to be honest and say that I've never seen a Shatner piece and thought "Damn!" I think because TOS was groundbreaking and he was the lead, it made him famous. And he was handsome (I'm not gay, but I'm sure a lot of women would have thought so in the 60s, even today if watching a TOS re-run) so of course he had that in his favour.

Yes, '60s-Shatner was considered handsome. My grandmother had a crush on him.

 

[JD5000]

Debating the quality (or not) of Shatner's acting is a non sequitor. Star Trek wouldn't be what it is today without his Kirk.

I think Shatner set the standard. Stewart's Picard may have been casted differently if Roddenberry hadn't been trying to cast off similarities to TOS for the new series.

That said, I do think Patrick Stewart is a great actor, played Picard perfectly, and I think anyone that thinks he takes himself too seriously is just hearing the accent.

 

[Amaris]

He been nominated seven times for an Emmy and won twice (six for Denny Crane) So he must be doing something right.

Agreed.

Debating the quality (or not) of Shatner's acting is a non sequitor. Star Trek wouldn't be what it is today without his Kirk.

I think Shatner set the standard. Stewart's Picard may have been casted differently if Roddenberry hadn't been trying to cast off similarities to TOS for the new series.

That said, I do think Patrick Stewart is a great actor, played Picard perfectly, and I think anyone that thinks he takes himself too seriously is just hearing the accent.

Both men did excellent jobs with the material they had, whether good or bad. In Stewart's case, though, he did take himself very seriously at first. It took some time for him to loosen up when it came to TNG.