Singly most hated & despised ep of the whole 79

[JustKate]

"Spock's Brain" really isn't that bad. If you watch it again and take it seriously, it's actually a pretty decent episode with some intriguing sci-fi concepts - which is what TOS is all about.

"And the Children Shall Lead" - I can never figure out why people hate that episode. Is it the kids? I dunno. Either way, it's actually one of my favorites - and the Gorgon's true appearence practically makes me sh*t my pants every time!

"The Alternative Factor"'s only weakness is the extremely rushed production and continuity issues. I'm sure that if it were done as planned, it would have been a classic on the order of "The Enterprise Incident" or any of the others.

I guess I'm a little biased, being a fanatic TOS fan, but to me, every episode is nothing short of brilliant, and better than anything else on TV. The only episode that I will go so far as to "not like as much as the others," or maybe - just MAYBE - go so far as to say that it is not in the realm of episodes I like, suggesting that I actually DON'T like it at all...in fact I hate it...is "The Mark of Gideon."

That episode is like a TNG episode - boring, sluggish, stupid concepts, poorly executed, melodramatic, and has absolutely zero re-watchability. It's like TOS, TNG-ified.

No offense to TNG fans out there.

TOS Purist, we all love the show, but with all due respect, even what you've written here makes it clear that SEVERAL episodes are "short of brilliant." Any episode that even you, a self-described "TOS fanatic" can describe as "really isn't that bad" and "a decent episode" and showing signs of "extremely rushed production and continuity issues" is definitely short of brilliant. Be honest now.

I agree that even the worst eps have something to recommend them (though in some cases, that something can be pretty hard to find), but come on - some missed more than they hit. It's possible to like them, and even love them, while still admitting that they have faults. I mean, I have lots of faults, and my husband and mom and siblings and friends still love me. We don't love only the flawless, right?

So kick back, relax, have fun and let your hair down. Surely you know by now that you're among friends here, so you're absolutely free to love TOS but still enjoy critiquing it.

 

[TOS Purist]

[...]even what you've written here makes it clear that SEVERAL episodes are "short of brilliant." [...] It's possible to like them, and even love them, while still admitting that they have faults. [...] you're absolutely free to love TOS but still enjoy critiquing it.

Umm...I DID critique those episodes, though. I appreciate you letting me know that I'm not among "haters." But my point was that despite their flaws, they're still brilliant (except for "Mark of Gideon" - that one's retarded). Something can be both brilliant AND flawed; "brilliant" is not synonymous with "perfect." I know TOS isn't perfect (although it's 99.7236453% perfect), but it's still brilliant, and the best television show ever to be produced in the history of Terrankind!

 

[JustKate]

But TOS Purist, you describe "Spock's Brain" as "not really that bad" and "a pretty decent episode." Now don't get me wrong, I adore "Spock's Brain," though not really for its "scifi concepts." (I admit it - I mostly enjoy it for the cheese.) But those are not words generally used to describe something that's "brilliant." Even flawed and brilliant.

And you call "Mark of Gideon" retarded. So those are two episodes that by your own admission are really and truly not brilliant. Therefore, all of TOS is not "nothing short of brilliant." There are at least two episodes that fall short, right?

I'm not trying to logic you into not loving TOS - God forbid! I mean, it wouldn't work and I don't want to because I love TOS, too.

My point is that TOS as a whole can still be brilliant even if a certain number of its episodes, for one reason or another, are not. So don't sweat it, OK?

But no, you are definitely not among haters. As far as I know, everybody who has posted in this thread loves TOS. Just not each and every episode. And that's absolutely fine. Really.

(I quite like "Alternative Factor," by the way, despite the general hate. I don't think it's brilliant - too, too, too many flaws - but it's a very interesting concept, and I think the guest star did a great job in a truly weird role. And the ending was just so sad!)

 

[plynch]

MARK OF GIDEON - yeah, now there's a bad one. Not that I hate or despise it. 10 minutes of plot stretched to 48 minutes. Just an excuse to get Kirk alone on the Enterprise and make the audience wonder what's up. Snoozer city. I think those are the ones I like the least, not the weird/crazy ones ("Children," Eden," etc.) but just boring ones. "Immunity Syndrome." "Catspaw." "THAT WHICH SURVIVES!!" No real human drama/story. Just a contrived danger they get out of by the end of the ep.

 

[Too Much Fun]

There's a lot more wrong with "And the Children Shall Lead" beyond the simple fact that the villains were children. For example, what probably annoyed me the most was the music. Especially when one of the kids would shake his fist (a.k.a the 'rock-paper-scissors' rock motion and there'd be a LOUD instrumental sting with every shake). That irritated the hell out of me. But that's just a small detail. That the more important ones (acting, writing, effects, etc.) were a huge drag is what ultimately soured me on the episode so strongly.

 

[TOS Purist]

But TOS Purist, you describe "Spock's Brain" as "not really that bad" and "a pretty decent episode." [...] But those are not words generally used to describe something that's "brilliant." Even flawed and brilliant.

True, but those are the words someone uses when trying to "sell" other people on something, which is exactly what I was trying to do. In this case, I was selling the idea to other fans that "Spock's Brain" really was a good episode, despite the hate it seems to garner.

Maybe I should set the record straight - I think "Spock's Brain" is brilliant. I think "The Alternative Factor" is brilliant, albeit poorly-executed. I think "And the Children Shall Lead" is brilliant. All the episodes are brilliant, with the exception of "Mark of Gideon."

There we go!!

 

[Chrisisall]

Maybe I should set the record straight - I think "Spock's Brain" is brilliant.

Respectfully disagree. It is funny, though!

I think "The Alternative Factor" is brilliant, albeit poorly-executed.

Agree entirely.

I think "And the Children Shall Lead" is brilliant.

Neural-neutralizer much?

All the episodes are brilliant, with the exception of "Mark of Gideon."

It was just okay IMO. Nice babe factor.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Yeah, I think we're gonna wind up picking over all 79...

 

[TOS Purist]

Well, Chris...when was the last time you watched "Spock's Brain?" I'd recommend checking it out again, but this time watching it as you would any other TOS episode and take it as seriously as the rest.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Actually, "Spock's Brain" ran in syndication not very long ago, and agreed, it's not that bad, but it's far from Gene Coon's best effort.

And, "The Alternative Factor" is airing this weekend, so we'll all have a chance for a fresh review.

 

[Maurice]

Wow! Nice to see I'm not alone in my opinions on those episodes - thanks for the post, Hambone!!

As for a "conniption" - that's another word for "heart attack."

n. informal
a fit of rage or hysterics

So, not cardiac arrest.

 

[JustKate]

But TOS Purist, you describe "Spock's Brain" as "not really that bad" and "a pretty decent episode." [...] But those are not words generally used to describe something that's "brilliant." Even flawed and brilliant.

True, but those are the words someone uses when trying to "sell" other people on something, which is exactly what I was trying to do. In this case, I was selling the idea to other fans that "Spock's Brain" really was a good episode, despite the hate it seems to garner.

Nice try! In fact, a very nice try. I admire your reasoning powers and your honesty.

It's still not "brilliant," though, unless you mean "brilliantly cheesy," and I'm pretty sure you don't.

 

[Chrisisall]

Well, Chris...when was the last time you watched "Spock's Brain?" I'd recommend checking it out again, but this time watching it as you would any other TOS episode and take it as seriously as the rest.

Oh, I SO plan to check it out again- just waiting for a good price on the remastered third season to appear!
Once I get it, I'll have all three, TMP, STIV, and VI- that's all I need.

 

[TOS Purist]

Did you say "remastered" third season? My good man, please don't waste your money...buy the DVD box set with the original episodes, not the episodes with the cheesy video-game graphics awkwardly and obviously spliced into the footage.

 

[Chrisisall]

Did you say "remastered" third season? My good man

A point where we diverge, it seems. I LOVE the remasterd eps, Doomsday Machine in particular- it's so much easier for me to get into the DRAMA of the story without being distracted by that badly painted AMT model kit, or rushed FX in general. It's not so much that it adds good stuff in, more like it takes bad stuff out.
The live action is what really counts, after all, anyway.

 

[TOS Purist]

Well, everyone's entitled to their opinions. I'm not opposed to the idea of adding new effects to TOS, I just think they could have done a more thorough and overall higher-quality job. As it is, CBS-D was pretty half-assed about it! But that's just me.

But you're right - the live action IS what counts!

 

[Chrisisall]

CBS-D was pretty half-assed about it! But that's just me.

Way I understand it, there were time & budgetary restraints in play- they did what they could where time allowed, still, even with some occasional Playstation 2 FX, they did a good job of replacing repetative stock shots, and restoring the original colours that had faded through age.
Plus, Enterprise strafing the Planet killer was suhh-weeeet!

 

[TOS Purist]

Way I understand it, there were time & budgetary restraints in play- [the Remastered project] did what they could where time allowed

Maybe, but the Remastered project should have been of great importance, and given as much time possible to do the best job possible. Have ILM do the effects, or something. Build a movie-quality model, film it with actual rolls of film and make it blend with the live-action footage better. Or at the very least, they could have made the effects actually MATCH the dialogue - the "blue fire" from the top of the Preserver obelisk in "The Paradise Syndrome" originally shot a blue beam, but instead fired a red beam, for some reason, in the Remastered version). Go back and redo ALL the phaser effects. Sometimes they'd add a white "core" to phaser beam effects to make it look better, and sometimes they wouldn't. They could have added Evil Kirk's missing Enterprise mission badge when he first steps off the transporter. They could have added stars to the viewscreen behind the two Kirks when they meet on the Bridge instead of leaving it blank. They could have added the screen's reflection to the chess room table at the beginning of "Where No Man Has Gone Before." They could have NOT tried to retcon it (like they did when they made ALL the torpedoes a TWOK/TNG red) and actually make the torpedoes proper silvery energy blobs of doom like they're supposed to be (hell, they got that effect right in "In a Mirror, Darkly" of all shows). I could go on and on...they could have done a lot, but they did very little.

It would have been nice if they had gone back and remastered the SOUND of TOS. It would be awesome to see Kirk walk across the Bridge without hearing the sound of the wooden set creaking underneath him. Give it the same treatment they give modern shows - mute the footage and add all the elements in again. Extract the dialogue, clean it up and remove ambient noise and echoing, and put it back into the footage. Reinsert cleaned-up sound effects. Even if they didn't want to give it the full treatment sound-wise, at the very least, they could have put in door sounds on the few occasions where the original TOS production crew forgot to put in the "woosh" in post-production.

But all they did was swap out the space shots and add in some cheesy-looking CGI, some neat-looking mattes for establishing shots of the planets (which were admittedly cool) and called it "Remastered."

 

[Warped9]

TOS-R had a number of things against it from the onset:

- it had a limited budget.
- it had a tight time frame to complete the work.
- it was mostly a committee type of vision rather than a more focused individual one.
- it had no interest in being aesthetically consistent with the remaining live-action footage. They changed things mostly for the sake of change and to show what they could do.

If they'd really wanted to make a proper remastering of f/x then it would have required a lot more time and money, far more than would be reasonable to expect, because it would involve more than just reimagining some new space scene shots. The end result if done right would have been something that looked like state-of-the-art '60s feature film f/x (just look at the quality of 2001 f/x) rather than second rate contemporary cgi.

 

[Chrisisall]

Build a movie-quality model, film it with actual rolls of film and make it blend with the live-action footage better. Go back and redo ALL the phaser effects. They could have added the screen's reflection to the chess room table at the beginning of "Where No Man Has Gone Before." It would be awesome to see Kirk walk across the Bridge without hearing the sound of the wooden set creaking underneath him. Extract the dialogue, clean it up and remove ambient noise and echoing, and put it back into the footage. Reinsert cleaned-up sound effects.

The bucks stop somewhere...