Similarities in music from Pirates of the Caribbean to ST6?

[Matt]

Has this been discussed before?

The music is greatly similar. They're done by different composers...

Methinks there was a bit of ripping off going on. There are many sections and riffs that have the same notes, tempo, etc.

In particular, the main theme of Star Trek VI seems sampled quite a bit, especially the final battle sequence, "The Battle For Peace."

 

[sbk1234]

To me, the music from TUC always reminded me of Holst's The Planets suite, especially Mars.

 

[Indysolo]

Re: Similarities in music from Pirates of the Caribbean to S

That was intentional. Originally Meyer wanted to license that music for the film, but the Holst estate wanted too much money.

Neil

 

[Orac]

Re: Similarities in music from Pirates of the Caribbean to S

The opening theme to TUC is very similar to The Firebird by Stravinksy.

 

[sbk1234]

Re: Similarities in music from Pirates of the Caribbean to S

Hey, Indy! How's it going? Nice to hear from you again. The point being, and I think that we're all in agreement here, the music sounds good from both sources: Holst, and TUC. (I can't remember the composer.) As for "A bit ripping off" going on, as Matt says, I don't know if it's similar enough to accuse plagarism. If so, and I'm not saying it is, it could even be "unintentional plagarism." If I'm correct, wasn't it decided in court that George Harrison was guilty of unintenional plagarism for his song My Sweet Lord, which was EXTREMELY similar to He's So Fine? I guess they decided that he copied from the earlier song which he had forgotten about, but had stayed in his psyche for him to rip off. I suppose the same could be said about the two flicks mentioned here, since I'd like to think that a big time movie company with big time lawyers wouldn't stoop to ripping off someone else's music.

If we want to open ANOTHER can of worms, how about James Horner, who seemed to like to copy his own music from different movie franchises. Case in point, themes from TWOK, which ended up being repeated almost exactly in Cocoon.
Thoughts?

 

[Orac]

Re: Similarities in music from Pirates of the Caribbean to S

sbk1234 said:
If we want to open ANOTHER can of worms, how about James Horner, who seemed to like to copy his own music from different movie franchises. Case in point, themes from TWOK, which ended up being repeated almost exactly in Cocoon.
Thoughts?

You're right about James Horner recycling his own music, another example would be the Klingon incidental music he used in The Search for Spock which was recycled from Battle Beyond the Stars.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Re: Similarities in music from Pirates of the Caribbean to S

sbk1234 said:
TUC. (I can't remember the composer.)

Cliff Eidelman

 

[Jon1701]

Re: Similarities in music from Pirates of the Caribbean to S

All composers recycle their own music to some degree.

James Horners socre to ST II is remarkedly similar to that from Battle Beyond the Stars (great film by the way!).

If you take a look here at the Star Trek Lexington Trailer you'll get a really good sense of what I mean (ignore the first 30 seconds or so)

Leonard Rosenmans score to TVH can be heard in Robocop 2, which frankly, is the most bizarre of the lot...

 

[Matt]

Re: Similarities in music from Pirates of the Caribbean to S

Horner has used the same bits though, almost untouched and unchanged for many of his clients.

Sort of crappy when you're paid hundreds of thousands of dollars per gig, yet you recycle the same stuff.

 

[Deleted 2]

Re: Similarities in music from Pirates of the Caribbean to S

I believe PotC was scored by Hans Zimmer, who has a fairly repetitive percussive style that many people seem to like.

If Eidelmann's score is an attempt to copy Holst's Mars, I think he succeeded very well in creating something that evokes the same emotions, without following the original too closely.

 

[Charlie Kelly]

Re: Similarities in music from Pirates of the Caribbean to S

James Horner ripped a section of music from Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet that can be heard during some of the fight scenes for use in Star Trek III when they are stealing the Enterprise. It’s an almost copy and paste.

Charlie

 

[Tomalak]

Re: Similarities in music from Pirates of the Caribbean to S

Matt said:
Horner has used the same bits though, almost untouched and unchanged for many of his clients.

Sort of crappy when you're paid hundreds of thousands of dollars per gig, yet you recycle the same stuff.

To be fair to him, most of his 80s gigs (Aliens, TSFS for example) were done at very short notice.

 

[Deleted 2]

Re: Similarities in music from Pirates of the Caribbean to S

And the score, in its dozens of incarnations, is actually pretty good

 

[Ssosmcin]

Re: Similarities in music from Pirates of the Caribbean to S

Horner also cribbed from Sergei Prokofiev's Alexander Nevsky, the Battle on the Ice cues. Mostly Horner cribs from classical music and his own work. Obviously, movie producers don't seem to care, since he's constantly employed.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Re: Similarities in music from Pirates of the Caribbean to S

ssosmcin said:
Obviously, movie producers don't seem to care, since he's constantly employed.

In fact, he probably gives them exactly what they asked for. "You know that piece you did in 'Cocoon', where the music does this, and then this, well I want something like that for this scene... Start with that bit, then take it somewhere new/faster/slower" and so on.

 

[Basil]

Re: Similarities in music from Pirates of the Caribbean to S

Commercial entertainment almost always is a poor man's imitation of more "high artistic" work. Even the music.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Re: Similarities in music from Pirates of the Caribbean to S

Some repetitousness comes from the fact that each composer has their own style and they use variations of music in different projects. Some are just more creative and aren't so obvious about it.

 

[Opus]

only so much you're gonna do with 12 notes.

BTW, TUC was a rip-off of Holst' 'The Planets', specifically 'Mars'. Meyer and Eidleman admit it in the liner notes. 'Pirates' is probably taking a nod from 'Mars' as well, and where you are hearing the similarities.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Re: Similarities in music from Pirates of the Caribbean to S

OphaClyde said:
TUC was a rip-off of Holst' 'The Planets'

No, it was a homage. "Rip-off" implies there was no attempt to acknowledge the ST VI soundtrack's influences.

 

[Nebusj]

Re: Similarities in music from Pirates of the Caribbean to S

Therin of Andor said:

OphaClyde said:
TUC was a rip-off of Holst' 'The Planets'

No, it was a homage. "Rip-off" implies there was no attempt to acknowledge the ST VI soundtrack's influences.

Also, space movies that try to be at all serious are required to rip off ``Mars, the Bringer of War''. See also: The Right Stuff, Apollo 13, From The Earth To The Moon, and many other movies and made-for-TV movies that amount to fan fiction of those.