Silent Letters

[scotpens]

What other languages besides English has silent letters?

German does.

German used to have a silent H, but it was banished from the language by official decree early in the 20th century. That's why “Neanderthal" is spelled that way, even thought the correct pronunciation (and the preferred modern spelling) is “Neandertal.”

 

[iguana_tonante]

There is the silent c in Latin.

Can you give an example? My Latin is a little rusty but I can't think of any as of now...

Some years ago I was told that in Italian, one pronounces every letter, which would suggest there are no silent letters in Italian. But since I know very little Italian I can't confirm that one way or the other.

H is silent in Italian, but it helps to to distinguish between homophones that have different meaning (like hanno "they have", and anno "year"; and hai "you have", ai "to the" and ahi "ouch"), or to change the sound of the previous consonant (the syllable ci is pronounced like "see", while chi is pronounced like "key" for example).

 

[scotpens]

There is the silent c in Latin.

I've never studied Latin, but I was under the impression that, in classical Latin, C is always pronounced like K.

. . . (the syllable ci is pronounced like “see”, while chi is pronounced like “key” for example).

Actually, ci in Italian is pronounced like “chee” (as in cappuccino or Medici).

 

[Miss Chicken]

I think the Iguana might know how things are pronounced in his own language. Maybe it is us who is pronouncing Medici and cappuccino incorrectly.

 

[gturner]

Here's a weird one.

"Wrought" (as in "wrought iron") is an irregular past tense of "work", once pronounced as "Worght" with all letters voiced, and thus sounding much like the modern "worked".

We retained the archaic spelling but forgot how we were supposed to pronounce it, finally concluding that it should be pronounced as "rot".

 

[scotpens]

I think the Iguana might know how things are pronounced in his own language. Maybe it is us who is pronouncing Medici and cappuccino incorrectly.

So Italians pronounce their own language incorrectly in every Italian movie I've ever seen?

Arrivederci, Baby!

 

[M'Sharak]

What other languages besides English has silent letters?

German does.

German used to have a silent H, but it was banished from the language by official decree early in the 20th century. That's why “Neanderthal" is spelled that way, even thought the correct pronunciation (and the preferred modern spelling) is “Neandertal.”

True, designations assigned prior to the 1901 orthographic reform retain the 'H'; thus, in the Neander valley ("tal", previously spelled "thal") the railway station near the limestone quarry where prehistoric remains were discovered in 1856 also retains the name "Neanderthal" because the railway was built in 1879.

I was really thinking more of the silent 'K' when I posted that, though.

 

[Miss Chicken]

I think the Iguana might know how things are pronounced in his own language. Maybe it is us who is pronouncing Medici and cappuccino incorrectly.

So Italians pronounce their own language incorrectly in every Italian movie I've ever seen?

Arrivederci, Baby!

Maybe Iguana was referring to 'ci' at the beginning of a word.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Actually, it was just a typo: scotpens is correct. My bad for writing posts about linguistics in the middle of the night....

 

[Miss Chicken]

Actually, it was just a typo: scotpens is correct. My bad for writing posts about linguistics in the middle of the night....

Well I sincerely apologise to scotspens for saying he was wrong. I just assumed that a well educated Italian, such as I know you are, would be right when discussing how they pronounce things.

 

[captcalhoun]

And all those nautical terms like gunwale (“gun-əl”), forecastle (“foke-səl”) and boatswain (“bo-sən”).

Or halfpenny (ha'penny).

that's people mangling the pronounciations. it should be fore-castle and boat's-wain and half-penny. people just slur them.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Actually, it was just a typo: scotpens is correct. My bad for writing posts about linguistics in the middle of the night....

Well I sincerely apologise to scotspens for saying he was wrong. I just assumed that a well educated Italian, such as I know you are, would be right when discussing how they pronounce things.

Most of the time, you would be absolutely right about me.

I guess sometimes I have to make a mistake to remind people that even I can be wrong sometimes... unlikely as it may sound.

 

[propita]

In French, as in many languages, the letter H is silent. And terminal consonants are silent unless the following word begins with a vowel.

IThe only one I can't reason-out is Wednesday. I've no idea how we fucked that one up.

Not to mention business, Greenwich and Worcestershire. And all those nautical terms like gunwale (“gun-əl”), forecastle (“foke-səl”) and boatswain (“bo-sən”).

When I visited London years ago, some people I was talking with asked why Americans had problems with pronouncing "Worcestershire." I said it was because we pronounced all of the syllables (usually). They were puzzled until they realized the spelling.

The nautical ones, I end up thinking as entirely separate words. They don't seem to correlate in my mind as the same word.

And the second "c" in "Connecticut" is never silent when I'm spelling it. I may not say it, but when I spell it....entirely different.

 

[Goliath]

The only one I can't reason-out is Wednesday. I've no idea how we fucked that one up.

Wednesday means "Day of Odin" or "Odin's Day."

In Old English, it was something like "Wodnesdae."

Wodnes = genitive of Woden, the English name for Odin

dae = day

As other posters have already said, words erode and get worn-down over time, from people slurring them. So it probably degenerated roughly as follows:

Wodnes-dae
Wonnes-dae
Wenn's-day
Wens-day

There are some place names in England that are spelled the same way: Wednesbury and Wednesfield in Staffordshire, and even Wensley, in Derbyshire.

Source: OED.

 

[Goliath]

When I visited London years ago, some people I was talking with asked why Americans had problems with pronouncing "Worcestershire." I said it was because we pronounced all of the syllables (usually).

Heh. Not my family.

I grew up pronouncing it "WER-shi-sher."

 

[Zulu Romeo]

There are some place names in England that are spelled the same way: Wednesbury and Wednesfield in Staffordshire, and even Wensely, in Derbyshire.

And of course the Valley (dale) of Woden's Meadow (ley), a.k.a. Wensleydale.


Not to be confused with Widnes, Cheshire - its name is apparently from the Danish for "wide nose".

 

[Goliath]

There are some place names in England that are spelled the same way: Wednesbury and Wednesfield in Staffordshire, and even Wensely, in Derbyshire.

And of course the Valley (dale) of Woden's Meadow (ley), a.k.a. Wensleydale.

Mmm...Wensleydale.

 

[scotpens]

. . . that's people mangling the pronounciations. it should be fore-castle and boat's-wain and half-penny. people just slur them.

Maybe that happened because, in the days when scurvy was a common disease, sailors tended to lose their teeth.

When I visited London years ago, some people I was talking with asked why Americans had problems with pronouncing “Worcestershire.” I said it was because we pronounced all of the syllables (usually).

That reminds me of the classic limerick:

There was a young lady of Worcester
Who dreamt that a fellow sedorcester.
She awakened to find
It was all in her mind;
A lump in the mattress had gorcester.

 

[Mr Awe]

It's always been my presumption that they're in there to make words look less funny. I'm sure it's because we Americans, and to some degree the English, have muddied the language over the centuries but part of me just think it's part of making words look appealing. I mean "haf" as opposed to "half" just doesn't look as good.

Except the L in "half" is *not* silent if you pronounce it correctly.

Mr Awe

 

[Mark de Vries]

It's more a matter of the codification of the language than any attempt to make words look 'less funny' (who decides that anyway?).

When printing and especially widespread publication of texts became standard, the spelling became standardised (codified) as well. We're basically using spelling from the past, while pronunciation continued to develop.

That does not explain all cases of weird spelling (especially of old words like 'knight'), of course, but it is a factor.

Best example of spelling and pronunciation not even being in the same dimension is George Bernard Shaw's claim that 'fish' can be spelled as 'ghoti': 'gh' as in 'enough', 'o' as in 'women', and 'ti' as in 'nation'.