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Should we allow for AI-generated fiction writing?

It will create a more competitive environment
It will also significantly lower the barriers to entry. Small crews with $30 million or even $3 million will be able to match the audiovisual fidelity and scope of a $300 million production, and that cost will eventually drop to $300,000 and then all the way down to $3. Ultimately, a screenwriter with a script written entirely without AI will be able to bring the script to the screen without having to shop it around to studios which will probably alter the story if it's ever made at all. I don't see why any writers (or Captain Proton fans) would oppose that...
 
AI isn’t going to stop people from picking up pencil and paper, or musical instruments. Those have been with us since the dawn of mankind.

It will create a more competitive environment for those who wish to do it as a living. I’m not sure that is a bad thing.

Most of the people I currently know who create art, at least some of whom are trying to do so for a living, would likely argue that the environment is competitive enough without someone spending ten minutes to create something that's 'good enough' to satisfy people and selling it for $10 versus the art they spent hours creating and are trying to sell at a fair price that will also allow them to live comfortably (and continue making art).
 
ten minutes to create something that's 'good enough' to satisfy people and selling it for $10 versus the art they spent hours creating and are trying to sell at a fair price that will also allow them to live comfortably (and continue making art).
The genie can't be rebottled, so complaining about it is pointless. People are never going back to licensing photos and videos for tens to hundreds to thousands of dollars each when they can pay $10 a month for unlimited generations, nor should they, especially since the technology is rapidly advancing and "good enough" will eventually become "indistinguishable from professional human productions" (and already has in some cases).

A friend of mine who was formerly employed as a book translator said his most recently published translation, which he completed years ago, will probably be his last since there's "no point anymore" due to the quality of translations ChatGPT now produces. He loves this because it allows him to instantly and accurately translate untranslated works from languages he doesn't understand into one of the ones he does. There are far too many books and comics for humans to ever realistically translate, and of course humans can't provide live translations to everyone communicating online in realtime.

I just realized that I don't recall any outrage over Grammarly and other automated editors unfairly inconveniencing human editors...
 
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Most of the people I currently know who create art, at least some of whom are trying to do so for a living, would likely argue that the environment is competitive enough without someone spending ten minutes to create something that's 'good enough' to satisfy people and selling it for $10 versus the art they spent hours creating and are trying to sell at a fair price that will also allow them to live comfortably (and continue making art).
I do pyrography by hand. Currently, there is a huge difference in artistry and range of expression between a CNC laser image and a hand done woodburning.
20180124_124902-jpg.157335
Hand done,
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il_fullxfull.3194031652_7k4r.jpg
Laser woodburning.

At the fairs I sell at, my product would be about 10 to 30 times the price of the guy with a laser burner in his garage. If I wanted to make a living as a woodburner, and I certainly wouldn't mind it, I'd get a laser CNC machine and do what sells. The fact that I charge $1,600 for that octopus hatch, and not $80, is my fault. I don't need to limit my product to such exclusivity, but that's the art I like to do, and if it strikes someone's fancy and they want to buy a piece from me, awesome. I can't resent the technology or the artists that take the other route. That path is there for me just as it was for them.

-Will
 
I just realized that I don't recall any outrage over Grammarly and other automated editors unfairly inconveniencing human editors...
I know a someone (high school senior) who just FAILED a college-level social studies class was was nearly kicked out of the honors program for using Grammarly.
 
Now, if AI actually experienced positive reinforcement and learned from it, we are truly looking at intelligence, as well as the possibility of consciousness. There is no positive reinforcement in computers today. They do what they're programmed to do, the way they are programmed to do it, which includes learning algorithms. Computers and their programming experience no pleasure and they don't know when they have it right, only that it meets the correct parameters fed to it in their programming. Currently, if an AI program was never asked to perform a task, it wouldn't perform any tasks. It would just wait, no matter how much positive reinforcement it had previously received.
"Positive reinforcement" meaning the weight of the path was adjusted.
According to established law, it is certainly fair use in general, as supported by a wide range of academics, library associations, civil society groups, startups, major US companies, creators, authors, and others who have submitted comments to the US Copyright Office, as well as in the European Union, Japan, Singapore, Israel, and elsewhere around the world.
Fair use is whatever the judge assigned your case says it is.
It will also significantly lower the barriers to entry. Small crews with $30 million or even $3 million will be able to match the audiovisual fidelity and scope of a $300 million production, and that cost will eventually drop to $300,000 and then all the way down to $3. Ultimately, a screenwriter with a script written entirely without AI will be able to bring the script to the screen without having to shop it around to studios which will probably alter the story if it's ever made at all. I don't see why any writers (or Captain Proton fans) would oppose that...
Independent film exists. If you write a screenplay and use AI to "film" it, you're not making a film, you're just writing a screenplay. Making a film requires human decisions about camera angles and acting, and such. That's what a director does.
 
The genie can't be rebottled, so complaining about it is pointless. People are never going back to licensing photos and videos for tens to hundreds to thousands of dollars each when they can pay $10 a month for unlimited generations, nor should they, especially since the technology is rapidly advancing and "good enough" will eventually become "indistinguishable from professional human productions" (and already has in some cases).

A friend of mine who was formerly employed as a book translator said his most recently published translation, which he completed years ago, will probably be his last since there's "no point anymore" due to the quality of translations ChatGPT now produces. He loves this because it allows him to instantly and accurately translate untranslated works from languages he doesn't understand into one of the ones he does. There are far too many books and comics for humans to ever realistically translate, and of course humans can't provide live translations to everyone communicating online in realtime.

I just realized that I don't recall any outrage over Grammarly and other automated editors unfairly inconveniencing human editors...

You claim to be a ghostwriter.
I'm curious, why are you fighting so hard to put yourself out of business?
And don't go spouting off that other authors agree. There's a lawsuit filed by the author's guild you should take a look at to see what REAL authors think about AI.
 
You're also putting dozens to hundreds of people out of work. But screw them, I guess.
Just think how many jobs would be lost if those dozens to hundreds of people decided to produce their own AI aided movies and put them out in the world?

Even the AI movie producers wouldn't be able to make a living because movies become so cheap as to lose all commercial value. What then, would consumers spend their money on? Of course, consumers, having become AI reliant for their income, would have less money to spend. The results of that would be deflation.
Then, the only people making money will be the land owners who grow food that is planted, cultivated, harvested, processed and shipped to markets all by automation run by AI. No employees involved.

the only problem, no customers who can afford to buy anything. Then, an organization, such as a union, church, cooperative, charity, or government would have to step in and control distribution of free goods, or risk running out of raw resources. Of those organizations, only a government would have the power to enforce compliance. Suddenly the means of production, or the economy, wasn't in in the control of the 1%ers any more, it would be in control of the 0.001%ers.

Let the dystopians reign. Great Scifi foder.

-Will
 
You claim to be a ghostwriter.
I didn't say I am a ghostwriter but rather that I have written professionally as a ghostwriter. I didn't say how often or for how long. (The answer is one brief job a few years ago, but you said "never," so...)
I'm curious, why are you fighting so hard to put yourself out of business?
If you were a lamplighter, a silent movie actor, or a switchboard operator, would you oppose automatic streetlights, sound pictures, or automatic phonelines? Maybe, but you'd be fighting a losing battle if you did. The current conflicts will inevitably go the same way.
And don't go spouting off that other authors agree.
Some do; see citations above. Also refer to my comment about a friend of mine who worked as a translator for over a decade. He thinks AI will end his translation career but thinks AI translation has immense utility. He does other work now and always has.
There's a lawsuit filed by the author's guild you should take a look at to see what REAL authors think about AI.
What "REAL" authors think is frankly entirely irrelevant, because AI is indeed transformative fair use according to established law and so the Authors Guild lawsuit is likely to fail. Even if it doesn't—and even if all "bad" AI was banned—people would still continue to use it no matter what. Artificial intelligences far more powerful than the ones currently running on supercomputers and massive server arrays will eventually run locally on $50 smartphones. Whether for better or worse, there's simply no stopping it.
Just think how many jobs would be lost if those dozens to hundreds of people decided to produce their own AI aided movies and put them out in the world?

Then, the only people making money will be the land owners who grow food that is planted, cultivated, harvested, processed and shipped to markets all by automation run by AI. No employees involved.
Or, no one needs to work for a living any longer and is free to pursue their own interests as AI and robotics become more ubiquitous than smartphones and home appliances are today and we transition into a resource-based postscarcity society with universal basic income like (supposedly) the Federation. People might have to fight for it and the transition probably won't be smooth, but I don't see how automation wouldn't eventually obviate any need for human labor if we look ahead centuries and millennia. Do you really think people will still be concerned with making a living even after a million years of technological advancement? Surely not, and the transition must begin at some point.
Fair use is whatever the judge assigned your case says it is.
Ha! Largely true...
Independent film exists.
But independent film with the budgets of studio film doesn't yet exist except for Besson's Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets, Lucas' Star Wars prequel trilogy, Jackson's Lord of the Rings trilogy, and Coppola's Megalopolis. New technologies are beginning to bridge that gap, resulting in films like The Creator, which "made $80 million look like $300 million," an entirely positive development. The people who made it could not afford $300 million, so they couldn't have hired an additional $220 million worth of people, so no one was actually put out of work. Eventually, it will be possible to make $8 million and then $80,000 and then $8,000 and then $800 look like $300 million. Most people could afford to make a movie for $800 but not for $300 million, so they wouldn't be denying people $300 million of work.
If you write a screenplay and use AI to "film" it, you're not making a film, you're just writing a screenplay. Making a film requires human decisions about camera angles and acting, and such. That's what a director does.
You're making a holonovel like Tom Paris with Captain Proton. That's the dream for many, being able to bring a script to audiovisual (or even omnisensorial) life as a single creator without need of a team. Decisions about camera angles and virtual actors' performances and such could still be made manually if desired.
 
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Do you really think people will still be concerned with making a living even after a million years of technological advancement?
A million years? We've only been out of the prehistoric age for about 5500 years. That's so long from now that we might not even be talking about homosapian.

But,
Or, no one needs to work for a living any longer and is free to pursue their own interests as AI and robotics become more ubiquitous than smartphones and home appliances are today and we transition into a resource-based postscarcity society with universal basic income like (supposedly) the Federation.
Taking into account human nature and that some members of society will not be satisfied with an equal/level field, no matter how well their needs are met, I suspect there will always be those who maneuver their way into control. Status and power are the real commodities that will never go out of style.

These are relative values and that means, to gain power and position, it is likely resource hording and conditional distribution processes will be designed more to secure and solidify, as well as demonstrate power, then for the good of the people. Wealth and power are affirming and those in positions of power like to affirm themselves through the control of others. It just won't do to have everyone the same.

-Will
 
Yes, a million years from now, I'm sure we'll have long since transcended natural selection and biology altogether.

From genetic outliers, we know that human nature is malleable. We could choose to change human nature so that we all become like Jo Cameron:

“I know the word ‘pain,’ and I know people are in pain, because you can see it,” Joanne Cameron, a seventy-two-year-old retired teacher, told me, in the cluttered kitchen of her century-old stone cottage in the Scottish Highlands. Cameron has never experienced the extremes of rage, dread, grief, anxiety, or fear. She handed a cup of tea to Jim, her husband of twenty-five years, with whom she’s never had a fight. “I see stress,” she continued, “and I’ve seen pain, what it does, but I’m talking about an abstract thing.”
Even without changing human nature, I'd still prefer a world in which at least all labor necessary for survival is handled by machines.
 
I think Sojef said it best in Star Trek: Insurrection, "Our technological abilities are not apparent because we have chosen not to employ them in our daily lives. We believe that when you create a machine to do the work of a man, you take something away from the man."

I've played around with Copilot some, and it doesn't get the characters quite right. For example, I told it to write a story where Sheldon Cooper visits the Bundy family, and it had Sheldon apologize for insulting them which is something he would never do because he believes he is always right.

Allow it, don't allow it, it doesn't really matter to me. I won't post anything written by AI because I feel that it wouldn't be my work.
 
You're also putting dozens to hundreds of people out of work. But screw them, I guess.

I feel bad for the people who get caught up in this. But that is the great thing about being human, you can chase other goals and desires if where you are at no longer satisfies either your personal or professional goals.

People rarely use checks anymore (which affects a lot of people from printers to sorters and others), should we have stopped the development of the debit card to keep those jobs?
 
Why is it that every conversation about whether AI "art" should be allowed ends in AI bros changing the goalposts to focus on us instead of the AI?

It should be allowed. The reason for the focus on humans is because that is who it will affect in the long run. I was responding to someone talking about people being put out of work.
 
It should be allowed. The reason for the focus on humans is because that is who it will affect in the long run. I was responding to someone talking about people being put out of work.
I was more referring to the common refrain "well, that's how we think". (No, it's objectively not.)

My vote is, it should not be allowed, but that's kind of inevitable, so I think it should at least be tagged.
 
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