Should they just have ditched uniforms and protocol?

[Orphalesion]

Hey,

One thing about Voyage I just can't get over with is that in Season 4 they got rid of Kes instead of useless wallpaper like Harry Kim, so I like to every now and then think that there is an alternative universe where Seven of Nine replaced Harry instead of Kes.
And the other day it came to me that Harry leaving instead of Kes would have meant that of 9 main characters, 3 would have not worn uniform (Kes, Neelix and Seven). That's a third.

Then I thought; why did they even bother to continue to wear uniforms, especially since quite a chunk of the crew was originally Marquis, so people who had left Starfleet or had never been in Sarfleet to begin with.
They were stranded in Delta Quadrant, a lifetime away from any protocol or regulations and Voyager was their home now. I think it would have made sense to portray them slowly drifting towards stopping to wear their uniforms and start wearing what they could scrunch together/trade for with alien worlds (remember we can't replicate everything, energy resources and all)
Likewise I think they should have slowly start calling each other by their first names, even Janeway (just like the crew of the Equinox did)

I understand that out of universe the uniforms were an important part of brand recognition, but in universe they stopped making sense pretty quickly.

What do others think?

 

[Shazam!]

Voyager need much more than superficial changes to uniform. It's a neat idea and something I'd advocate but it wouldn't solve the shows ills.

 

[Shazam!]

Oh, and ditching Kes in favour of Kim was just mind boggling and was a purely political/business decision that was to the detriment of the show creatively.

 

[AgentCoop]

Ditching the uniforms would have symbolized (in-universe, anyway) that they were ditching Starfleet, and-by extension- the ideals of the Federation in favor of a "me first" mentality. I don't think that's the kind of show that the creators wanted to make, and (speaking only for myself) not the kind of show I wanted to see. I very much enjoyed watching Janeway trying to balance Federation ideals against the immediate needs of her crew.

Also, I found Kes and Harry more or less equally boring, so for me it's "six of one, half a dozen of the other".

 

[HIjol]

Did not like Kes all that much, and maybe the shadow of Sulu was at play in the decision.

I think with the devolution and distance you posit, they would have ended up like Toombs and his crew from the Riddick movies. Interesting, but like Agent Driedel says above, probably not the series they wanted to make.

 

[Stephen!]

Likewise I think they should have slowly start calling each other by their first names, even Janeway (just like the crew of the Equinox did)

They did, to some extent.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I think ditching the uniforms would only have happened if the U.S.S. Voyager ceased to be a Starfleet vessel and became a purely civilian one.

Like the S.S. Minnow...

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Ditching the uniforms would have symbolized (in-universe, anyway) that they were ditching Starfleet, and-by extension- the ideals of the Federation in favor of a "me first" mentality. I don't think that's the kind of show that the creators wanted to make, and (speaking only for myself) not the kind of show I wanted to see. I very much enjoyed watching Janeway trying to balance Federation ideals against the immediate needs of her crew.

Also, I found Kes and Harry more or less equally boring, so for me it's "six of one, half a dozen of the other".

They could have ditched the superficialities of protocol without ditching the ideals of the Federation. I would have liked to see that kind of show more, but the network just wanted another Starfleet show with no greater commentary on their isolation.

It worked beautifully when DS9 called into question the ideals of human advancement and morality when the survival of their civilization was at risk. Why couldn't it have worked for Voyager to question the necessity of protocol when they were isolated for (What they thought would be) seventy years? Ditching uniforms doesn't mean going full Equinox.

 

[Orphalesion]

^ This. Not wearing uniforms and following protocol to a t does not automatically entail "It's all about me! We are space pirates now!!" It would have emphasized their isolation even more. If I was stranded for a lifetime I know the first thing I would want to ditch is stifling protocol. The ship was not their workplace anymore and the crew no longer just colleagues. The Voyager was their home and their crew their family, so informality would have been a logical result.

And Kes at the very least had an interesting concept and was useful whenever they cared to write for her. What did Harry ever do? Stand there grinning stupidly, getting killed and playing his clarinet. Yay :-/

 

[urbandefault]

Being separated that far from the Federation increases the need for uniforms and protocol, especially with a "mixed" crew of Starfleet and Maquis. There has to be a rock solid chain of command, with a (borrowing from the real world) Uniform Code of Military Justice.

Without it, the chances of making it back to the Alpha Quadrant are minimal at best.

 

[Gaith]

^ Aye; on-duty uniform wear is beneficial to good order and discipline. I too would've liked to see a lot more off-duty quirkiness, and maybe some of-duty folks walking around the corridors in civvies, but when you're on duty, you're on duty, man.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

The next step from ditching uniforms is to start voting who is the captain. There cannot be democracy, this is the military.

 

[urbandefault]

The next step from ditching uniforms is to start voting who is the captain. There cannot be democracy, this is the military.

This.

 

[Nebusj]

What do others think?

It seems to me that ritual and procedure and habits are quite valuable in keeping people from being overwhelmed by stressful situations. Doing so reduces the number and variety of decisions individuals have to make, for example, and provides the subtle reassurance that they are in a sensible structure; also, meeting clearly known objectives, even if they are objectively silly ones like ``uniforms cleaned and pressed'', is a reassurance that you are able to successfully do things even in circumstances where getting them done is extraordinarily hard.

Case in point: the evening of the attack Pearl Harbor, the US Navy went through the usual flag-lowering ceremonies at sunset, as if nothing were wrong, and multiple sailors reported that the fact they were carrying on as if nothing was out of the ordinary brought comfort in one of the worst days of their lives.

So while I would understand and sympathize with loosening up on protocols that are just fantastically irrelevant, I would be reluctant to remove too many (or too quickly), because while they may be irrelevant, the fact that they exist provides a positive benefit.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Plus these people want to be in the military. They want uniforms to wear and ranks to define their relationship with others. They signed up for that bullshit, any of them could have been on a civilian research vessel if it was only about the science. Clearly for most of them that wasn't the case. Starfleet is a huge self sustaining propaganda machine that is these people's culture. You can't just pull that away, especially as being lost in space on a ship there is nothing to replace it with.

 

[Makarov]

I can picture it now, the episode opens with Harry & Tom playing ping pong on the bridge in their pajamas. Janeway sits around in a bathrobe drinking coffee all episode. Tuvok walks around in uniform yelling at everyone to clean up their potato chip bags. Chakotay pilots the ship from his quarters and they all have three day growth beards.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Now that's an alt.universe I can get behind. MU should have been about a bunch of lazy slobs rather than empires.

 

[borgboy]

The next step from ditching uniforms is to start voting who is the captain. There cannot be democracy, this is the military.

Absolutely. The Voyager would've been crippled without strong leadership. Uniforms helped the crew assimilate to the new situation, that they were now one crew with one leader.
Not that the Maquis were used as well as they should've.

This does make me want to see an alternate reality where Voyager was destroyed and the survivors had to assimilate to living and traveling on the Maquis ship.

And I absolutely agree that Kes should've stayed and Kim should've left. There was a lot of potential still to explore with Kes, and I think a sisterly relationship with Seven would've worked well. Kim never did anything worthwhile that I can remember.

 

[HIjol]

I think ditching the uniforms would only have happened if the U.S.S. Voyager ceased to be a Starfleet vessel and became a purely civilian one.

Like the S.S. Minnow...

hmm...cannot seem to find the Star Fleet Registry for "S.S. Minnow"

...was she canon, or from an alternate reality completely?

I did find some ancillary records, confirming that she was a pleaseure craft and did have a "Skipper", and a "Gilligan", whatever that was. New life form? I will keep digging.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

This is the military, but these people signed on with the expectation of tours ending, or retiring, or switching to other careers, or advancing in rank. You don't think military discipline would break down when the current arrangement became a life sentence?

Maybe not pajamas, but Bajorans would have certainly started wearing earrings, people might have made comfort adjustments. And eventually they would have needed to compromise and started trading technology for protection, without it being a learning experience about how Starfleet protocol is all.