Should there be Sub-Colors for the main 3x Divisions within StarFleet?

[Therin of Andor]

As I mentioned two years ago, the TWOK department colour scheme wasn't followed that faithfully on screen, and you can frequently spot characters wearing the wrong uniform. Scotty, in particular, seems to swap back and forth between engineering yellow and command white for no apparent reason.

Scott switches from red (engineering in TMP) to yellow (engineering in ST II) to white (as "Captain of Engineering" of the Excelsior in ST III).

The worst costuming mismatch was in ST VI: Valeris's collar colour not matching her shoulder strap. There was no budget to make more pieces, so they simply found bits that fitted the actor.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

The worst costuming mismatch was in ST VI: Valeris's collar colour not matching her shoulder strap. There was no budget to make more pieces, so they simply found bits that fitted the actor.

Yup. I remember reading somewhere that almost every source of information gave us a different contradicting story on Valeris:

According to dialogue, she was a Science Lieutenant, being prepared to take over Spock's position as Science Officer (potentially on the E-B rather than the E-A); her shoulder strap confirms Science Officer, but promotes her to Lieutenant Commander; whereas her shirt collar flags her as still a Midshipman/Cadet (though possibly with designated authority within the leadership cadre of same.

The student body is known as the Brigade of Midshipmen... The Brigade is divided into two regiments of three battalions each. Five companies make up each battalion, for a total of 30 companies. The midshipman command structure is headed by a first class midshipman known as the brigade commander, chosen for outstanding leadership performance. He or she is responsible for much of the brigade's day-to-day activities as well as the professional training of midshipmen. Overseeing all brigade activities is the commandant of midshipmen, an active-duty Navy captain or Marine Corps colonel. Working for the commandant, experienced Navy and Marine Corps officers are assigned as company and battalion officers.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USN_Midshipman_Insignia.png

 

[Tarek71]

It might be easier to use pins to denote the wide range of jobs, like Gunners Mate, Corpsman, Logistics, etc:



If it's colors, I came across a lot of things when looking for designs for my non-Trek universe. I mostly looked at flight suits. They come in a very wide variety of colors, and you could use that for subdivisions. "Greens" are medical but different types and shades for Surgeon, Dental, etc. The same with the science "blues":



I also looked at a wide range of real world militaries. The Mexican Army has 16 colors:

Gold: Generals
Light Brown: General Staff, Presidential Guard
Scarlet: Infantry
Burgundy: Artillery
Red-Brown: Quartermaster and Materiel
Light Orange-Brown: Transportation
Green: Military Police
Blue: Engineers, Signals and Communications
Light Blue: Cavalry
Light Gray-Blue: Cartography
Purple: Army Aviation, Parachute Brigade
Gray: Bands
Light Gray: Armor
Very light Gray: Intelligence
Brownish Gray: Administration
Yellow and Light Blue: Medical, Veterinary

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Just finished putting together a rough low-res take on the "blue trades" based on the divisions in the US Coast Guard (which have at least some crossover with the RN approach).

To clarify, for TOS characters - McCoy and M'Benga would wear "Medical", Chapel would wear "RN/Health Sci" through TOS (as would the equivalent of Simon Tarses), Spock would initially have worn "Physical/Space Sciences" before potentially swapping to the "Command" badge (not seen) as XO, McGivers could have worn Planetary/Soc Sci (assuming that she's billeted as the Ship's historian, rather than been an operations officer known to be a history "expert"), Areel Shaw would wear the "JAG/IA/IG" badge, at least if billeted to a starship, Rand and her peers, the Enterprise Personnel Officer and the unseen "Ship's Quartermaster" (Logistics/Supply Officer) would wear the Logistics/Personnel variant.

 

[Takeru]

They should probably do away with division colors altogether, they serve no real purpose because they don't tell you what jobs people have, only what jobs they don't have. To effectively communicate what jobs people have they'd probably need 20 colors.

They should just give everyone a name tag with their job title underneath, instead of coming up with a complicated system of colors, pins and symbols just write it out.

"Lt. Takeru, Nurse"

Done.

 

[valkyrie013]

If compared to today's uniforms, the ones shown would be mostly dress/officer uniforms, with the color diferentiation for the diferent things.
Now I like the idea of diferent uniforms for the diferent ocupations, Like an Engineer uniform thats are like a coverall that can get dirty. Or a Security with an optional tactical vest, more rugged, Medical, etc.
We mostly got that in the Movie era with St 2 .. the Angry Reds for the officers etc, had an engineering uniform, and a security uniform With Helmet! and Medical scrubs. Most realistic

 

[J.T.B.]

We mostly got that in the Movie era with St 2 .. the Angry Reds for the officers etc, had an engineering uniform, and a security uniform With Helmet! and Medical scrubs. Most realistic

STTMP did it first, though.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

They should probably do away with division colors altogether, they serve no real purpose because they don't tell you what jobs people have, only what jobs they don't have. To effectively communicate what jobs people have they'd probably need 20 colors.

They should just give everyone a name tag with their job title underneath, instead of coming up with a complicated system of colors, pins and symbols just write it out.

"Lt. Takeru, Nurse"

Done.

That works.

Though IMO a broader range of symbols on a generic uniform would be an acceptable "middle ground".

 

[fireproof78]

They should probably do away with division colors altogether, they serve no real purpose because they don't tell you what jobs people have, only what jobs they don't have. To effectively communicate what jobs people have they'd probably need 20 colors.

They should just give everyone a name tag with their job title underneath, instead of coming up with a complicated system of colors, pins and symbols just write it out.

"Lt. Takeru, Nurse"

Done.

Given that Starfleet operates on planetary distances, I would say division colors are appropriate for quick identification, as well as in more higher stress situations, much like flight deck operations on contemporary US naval carriers.

To clarify, for TOS characters - McCoy and Menga would wear "Medical", Chapel would wear "RN/Health Sci" through TOS (as would the equivalent of Simon Tarses), Spock would initially have worn "Physical/Space Sciences" before potentially swapping to the "Command" badge (not seen) as XO, McGivers could have worn Planetary/Soc Sci (assuming that she's billeted as the Ship's historian, rather than been an operations officer known to be a history "expert"), Areel Shaw would wear the "JAG/IA/IG" badge, at least if billeted to a starship, Rand and her peers, the Enterprise Personnel Officer and the unseen "Ship's Quartermaster" (Logistics/Supply Officer) would wear the Logistics/Personnel variant.

What about Security/MPs?

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Given that Starfleet operates on planetary distances, I would say division colors are appropriate for quick identification, as well as in more higher stress situations, much like flight deck operations on contemporary US naval carriers.


What about Security/MPs?

Maritime Law Enforcement Specialists ("MPs") are in the Deck & Weapons Group in USCG and broadly similar MAA/Regulators of the Royal Navy Police are in the General Service Branch ("Seamanship") in the RN, which roughly correspond to Starfleet's Command Division (along with the RN Warfare Branch in the later case), both of which are distinct from the Engineering Branch/Group (broadly similar in both), and the Adminstrative and Scientific Group (USCG) or the [mostly] seperate Logistics & Medical Branches (RN).

 

[fireproof78]

Maritime Law Enforcement Specialists ("MPs") are in the Deck & Weapons Group in USCG and broadly similar MAA/Regulators of the Royal Navy Police are in the General Service Branch ("Seamanship") in the RN, which roughly correspond to Starfleet's Command Division (along with the RN Warfare Branch in the later case), both of which are distinct from the Engineering Branch/Group (broadly similar in both), and the Adminstrative and Scientific Group (USCG) or the [mostly] seperate Logistics & Medical Branches (RN).

Thank you for the clarification. Really like your designs!

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

For further info:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Coast_Guard_ratings (for the USCG).

and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Navy_ratings_rank_insignia (for the RN).

 

[Prax]

They should probably do away with division colors altogether, they serve no real purpose because they don't tell you what jobs people have, only what jobs they don't have.

They serve a visual purpose. As nice as the later uniforms on DS9 were, and while they sometimes made scenes look more cinematic, they also made the show generally look more drab, especially when they were on an all gray starfleet ship. Having 3 main divisions is functional enough for setting purposes. And they add a quality and distinction to the main characters. The colors become a part of the character, so that when you see them in a different color, it can be awkward and stand out, like seeing Crusher in red, or Data in red, or Picard in blue. When Worf switched to red, it took a little getting used to, but then that became his color, and then seeing him back in gold might look strange.

 

[valkyrie013]

Well Geordi and Worf were orginally in Red during the first season, as both were in the "Command Track" To the point of Geordi running the show in Arsenal of Freedom. Then in S2 they both switched to Gold, Worf in Security and Geordi cheif Engineer. Worf back in Red for Ds9 wasn't to jaring for me.