Who all magically survived the second Borg cue attack on Earth, the Dominion war, the other tangent wars to the Dominion war.
Should there be an antagonist in the Picard show? If yes, who should it be?
- Thread starter The Overlord
- Start date
Who all magically survived the second Borg cue attack on Earth, the Dominion war, the other tangent wars to the Dominion war.
What about Chain of Command, the Defector, Waltz, Balance of Terror, Arnea, the Xindi arc, Errand of Mercy, Yesterday's Enterprise etc?
Also, you do not think there are not a ton of terrible episodes where they deal anomalies? Would Twisted be anyone's favorite Star Trek episode? What about the Loss, that had no villain, was that a great episode?
Even something like Duet, which in theory does not have a villain, has Gul Dar'heel presence haunt it like an evil spirit.
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I said right in the post that it wasn't all or nothing 
And yes, some DID have a bad guy, although I'll say it was more often an antagonist than a mustache twirling villain that everyone seems to want to put in now.
Even when there was KIND OF a bad guy, i personally enjoyed it when it wasn't really the case. Something more like "that which survives", which appeared to have a bad guy, but was really more of a relic/artifact/thing to struggle against. Or to make it easier, I liked the Borg better as a force of nature than as an Evil Queen setup. And no one enjoyed the Kazon.
Sure, bad anomaly episodes, but on the whole, i'd watch every one of them before a forgettable kazon episode, most of the Xindi stuff, and even some Dominion or Klingon war arc episodes. Of note, almost all of the examples you used had a bad guy as a one-off thing and not a recurring role. Not always, of course, but (for example) Balance of Terror was good with Kirk matching wits with his Romulan counterpart, not because it was a bigger Romulan threat strung out. Yes, TOS wasn't serialized like that, but Balance of Terror was definitely a better example than a Klingon episode you could have used, as they were more used as 'generic bad guy' then. Romulans only popped up a couple times, and as individual threats.
For me, the crew against the Universe was always more interesting than struggling against the big bad of the season, which we will waste time on side struggles with until he reveals his ultimate plan in the season finale!
I'm ok with an adversary or competitor, need obstacles to overcome. Just don't want to see bad guy cabals, meetings, or conspiracies that only Old Man Picard can solve (if only he could remember in time, and with the help of an intrepid young crew that needs his veteran leadership despite his combat experience being 30 years out of date!)
And yes, some DID have a bad guy, although I'll say it was more often an antagonist than a mustache twirling villain that everyone seems to want to put in now.
Even when there was KIND OF a bad guy, i personally enjoyed it when it wasn't really the case. Something more like "that which survives", which appeared to have a bad guy, but was really more of a relic/artifact/thing to struggle against. Or to make it easier, I liked the Borg better as a force of nature than as an Evil Queen setup. And no one enjoyed the Kazon.
Sure, bad anomaly episodes, but on the whole, i'd watch every one of them before a forgettable kazon episode, most of the Xindi stuff, and even some Dominion or Klingon war arc episodes. Of note, almost all of the examples you used had a bad guy as a one-off thing and not a recurring role. Not always, of course, but (for example) Balance of Terror was good with Kirk matching wits with his Romulan counterpart, not because it was a bigger Romulan threat strung out. Yes, TOS wasn't serialized like that, but Balance of Terror was definitely a better example than a Klingon episode you could have used, as they were more used as 'generic bad guy' then. Romulans only popped up a couple times, and as individual threats.
For me, the crew against the Universe was always more interesting than struggling against the big bad of the season, which we will waste time on side struggles with until he reveals his ultimate plan in the season finale!
I'm ok with an adversary or competitor, need obstacles to overcome. Just don't want to see bad guy cabals, meetings, or conspiracies that only Old Man Picard can solve (if only he could remember in time, and with the help of an intrepid young crew that needs his veteran leadership despite his combat experience being 30 years out of date!)
The Federation fights a new Empire called Teerump, Admiral Picard head of Section 32 devises a plan to have him removed from office and imprisoned on Rure Penthe
I said right in the post that it wasn't all or nothing
And yes, some DID have a bad guy, although I'll say it was more often an antagonist than a mustache twirling villain that everyone seems to want to put in now.
Even when there was KIND OF a bad guy, i personally enjoyed it when it wasn't really the case. Something more like "that which survives", which appeared to have a bad guy, but was really more of a relic/artifact/thing to struggle against. Or to make it easier, I liked the Borg better as a force of nature than as an Evil Queen setup. And no one enjoyed the Kazon.
Sure, bad anomaly episodes, but on the whole, i'd watch every one of them before a forgettable kazon episode, most of the Xindi stuff, and even some Dominion or Klingon war arc episodes. Of note, almost all of the examples you used had a bad guy as a one-off thing and not a recurring role. Not always, of course, but (for example) Balance of Terror was good with Kirk matching wits with his Romulan counterpart, not because it was a bigger Romulan threat strung out. Yes, TOS wasn't serialized like that, but Balance of Terror was definitely a better example than a Klingon episode you could have used, as they were more used as 'generic bad guy' then. Romulans only popped up a couple times, and as individual threats.
For me, the crew against the Universe was always more interesting than struggling against the big bad of the season, which we will waste time on side struggles with until he reveals his ultimate plan in the season finale!
I'm ok with an adversary or competitor, need obstacles to overcome. Just don't want to see bad guy cabals, meetings, or conspiracies that only Old Man Picard can solve (if only he could remember in time, and with the help of an intrepid young crew that needs his veteran leadership despite his combat experience being 30 years out of date!)
I disagree, bad anomaly episodes are the worst, IMO. Stuff like Twisted and the Loss just suck, I would rather watch a Kazon episode then that, at least there would be something to laugh at in those eps. Sure there are some great episodes with anomalies in it, Cause and Effect and All Good Things, but man, there is nothing worse than a bad anomaly episode.
But a villain doesn't have to mean some generic bad guy who wants revenge on Picard or some stupid thing like that, that's what I suggested bringing back the Romulans because they never got a pay off to all the story elements from TNG era. The Romulans have been antagonizing the Federation throughout the TNG era, though there was a peace movement on Romulus that wanted to unify with the Vulcans, they were allies in the Dominion (though they were tricked into the war by Sikso and Garak) and the end of Nemesis suggested there be a peace between the 2 civilizations, then Romulus is destroyed in Star Trek 09.
Why not have a series where Picard's skill as a diplomat is put to the test, while the Romulan Empire was devasted by the destruction of Romulus, the remainder of the Empire broke into 2 factions, a hardline faction that wants to rebuild the Empire and conquers pre-warp planets to get the resources they want and a peaceful faction that wants to be resettled on Vulcan and thinks the Romulans should change after Romulus was destroyed. So you still have a villain in the form of the hardline faction, but the peaceful faction lets the Federation show compansion, taking in people who lost their home, maybe even having to deal with Vulcans who oppose this. It allows for a rich story that has everything, action, adventure and exploring the human condition by being kind to former enemies that are now in need of help.
I agree with Overloard's idea, as I have been parroting something like it whenever this topic comes up. The Picard show and extravaganza should cover the Romulans, and the fallout after Hobus. I like the idea of some romulan survivors coming back to Vulcan, or setting up other colonies, and have a section, probably the romuland fleet, setting up an new empire in another part of there space. a "Big Bad" doesn't have to be a single person, just an idea for the series being, like Voyager being trapped far away, wasn't a big bad, just something to move the series along. So you can deal with a "Refuge" crises ( something thats in the news as of late) on Vulcan, see what the vulcans do about it, a degree of xenophobia, or them telling the romulans that they must practice Suraks teachings, etc. Also some form of the Empire, maybe with the leadership doing a straw man blaming ( Something akin to the nazi's, lets blame the jews so we don't look at ourselves, and something for the people to rally around) Federation plot.. etc. for the supernova, Spock being a deamonized figure there.
Enter Picard, Defenatly an ambasador, after Sarek's mind meld, and Spock's disaperance, he goes to help the romulan people, maybe the Klingons to, they might go invade former romulan teritory. Him going from Earth, to Vulcan, to Nu Romulas, etc.
Enter Picard, Defenatly an ambasador, after Sarek's mind meld, and Spock's disaperance, he goes to help the romulan people, maybe the Klingons to, they might go invade former romulan teritory. Him going from Earth, to Vulcan, to Nu Romulas, etc.
Either Ardra from "Devil's Due" with even more advanced technology, or Vash gone evil.
Lucien from "Magicks of Megas Tu" or I'm quitting the fandom.
Spot the cat becomes the dictator of the Caitians
Great suggestions. Heck maybe they could even team up. Ardra is recently out of jail on Ventax II and wants some revenge and Vash is in competition with Picard over some treasure/artifact.
Yes you and The Overlord are right. There was a short post on Romulan mating rituals elsewhere and the bottom line there was we don't have enough canon on Romulans. They should feature heavy on a new show so we can get to know much more about them and with more depth.
Count me as one of those hoping for no central antagonist for the Picard show. Or, if there is an antagonist, at least not an outright villain, but a more complex foil ala Q.
Really, outside of the movies, villains have been more the exception than the rule in Trek. And even some of the earlier Trek movies, like TMP and TVH, lacked a villain. Unfortunately starting with Generations Trek writers seemed to get it into their heads that they needed to catch the lightening in a bottle that was TWOK, repeatedly creating a one-note villain again and again.
Really, outside of the movies, villains have been more the exception than the rule in Trek. And even some of the earlier Trek movies, like TMP and TVH, lacked a villain. Unfortunately starting with Generations Trek writers seemed to get it into their heads that they needed to catch the lightening in a bottle that was TWOK, repeatedly creating a one-note villain again and again.
The antagonist should be Data. Not a good guy/bad guy kind of thing, but a clash over how to save the galaxy or whatever.
What about Riker?
Maybe something happened to the friendship between Picard and his formerly Number One and they became enemies for some reason.
Maybe similar to the Novels, Riker got promoted to Admiral, while Jean Luc either stayed as Captain of the Enterprise-E or became an Ambassador, and made a decission that changed Picard's life in a bad way...
Maybe something happened to the friendship between Picard and his formerly Number One and they became enemies for some reason.
Maybe similar to the Novels, Riker got promoted to Admiral, while Jean Luc either stayed as Captain of the Enterprise-E or became an Ambassador, and made a decission that changed Picard's life in a bad way...
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Except that in a diplomatic crisis, like the one that comes from Romulus being destroyed, would create a diplomatic foil for Picard, because do you really think all the Romulans would want peace after this event? Unlikely and it would be bad writing if that was the case.
What I suggest is a villain who is not a Khan knock off, no personal grudge against Picard, does not want to destroy the Federation, etc. What is suggest is a Romulan civil war after Romulus is destroyed, between what is left of the hardliner military leaders and a bunch of pro-unification peace loving Romulans. The hardliners are obsessed with Romulan tradition, militarism, and purity and think the doves are a threat to their desire to rebuild the Empire. The hawks are also trying to build up their Empire by conquering any unclaimed planet with resources on it and do not care about the old treaties with the Federation.
The point is Picard would be saving Romulans from Romulans, which I think is an interesting situation for him to be in.
Agreed.
