Should the Vulcan Extremists Return in Picard?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by The Overlord, Nov 1, 2019.

  1. The Overlord

    The Overlord Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    In both the 23rd and 24th centuries we saw extremist movements in Vulcan that wanted to remove all non-Vulcans from their society. After Romulus was destroyed, there would be millions of Romulan refugees and many would want to settle on Vulcan. Many Vulcans may be unhappy with Romulans settling on Vulcan. Should the Vulcan Extremists return in Picard?
     
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  2. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Did they ever actually go away?
     
  3. The Overlord

    The Overlord Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    In the TNG era, we did not hear from them after ''The Gambit'', I assume this movement flares up and dies down at different points in time on Vulcan. But Romulan refugees may make this movement flare up again.
     
  4. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If Romulan refugees are trying to settle on Vulcan, I'm sure they'll crop up again.
     
  5. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The extremists would offer some free plot points for a while, especially if "Picard" continues for some time, or how its cast changes or remains the same or what not. They're still out there and with Romulus's destruction, that would easily add kindling to the fire.
     
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  6. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    We didn't hear from them before Gambit either.
     
  7. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If they were around in the 2250s and are still around in the 2370s, I think there's a good chance they're still around in Picard. They've probably been around since the Federation was founded. The isolationists were against an alliance. So anything that's been around for 200+ years, in that case, isn't going anywhere. They'll just become more extreme.
     
  8. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    If this kind of faction shows up again, I hope they don't call them "logic extremists."

    It might be interesting to see some Vulcans who still hold onto the ideas of ENT Seasons 1-3 Vulcans, i.e. more militaristic, they think mind melds are inappropriate, they don't believe katras are real, etc.

    Kor
     
  9. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What really floored me about the Logic Extremists was that there was one serving in Starfleet! An Admiral, no less! I never understood that.

    It'd be like a member of the IRA serving in the British Army. Why would anyone want to join an organization serving an entity they seek to destroy?
     
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  10. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    I assumed he infiltrated Starfleet to somehow undermine it from within, basically a double agent.

    Kor
     
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  11. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    She, actually. ;)

    Admiral Cornwell even pointed out that, as far as logic extremists go, Patar was a particularly fanatical one. Which makes the problem even worse...

    If Patar was a double agent, though, I think somebody would have noticed.
     
  12. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, I was thinking of some other Vulcan for some reason. It already feels like ages since I watched the last season.
    I wonder if it was well-known that Patar was a logic extremist, or if it was a secret that Cornwell somehow uncovered, and was going to expose at the right time.

    Kor
     
  13. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Might be "logic extremism" is a valid political view to hold, akin to, say, fascism, and both Vulcan and Earth have political parties built on that. It's just that callous terrorists are a known subset of logic extremists, while they are not quite as common a subset of the love instructors party or the united federalist party.

    I could well see Starfleet cringing with embarrassment about having an outspoken fascist in the high echelons, but not being capable of doing anything much about it. Who knows, perhaps the extremist party was quite popular and influential in the 2250s until folks like Patar gave it a bad / even worse name?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  14. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Wasn't one of the Section 31 admirals logic extremist, according to Cornwell?
     
  15. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yup, that's the Patar gal Mr. Laser Beam brought up above. The top boss of the darkest corner of the intelligence community might well be expected to have eccentric attributes, by the rules of drama if not by real-world precedent. But being a logic extremist need not be a crime as such - and Sarek realizing that his aide is one need not mean the guy would be an assassin as such, but it logically follows that if said aide has so far hidden his political alignment, then obviously he is an assassin as well.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  16. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, I got to admit, that was a total WTF to me too.
     
  17. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    Given how human-centric Starfleet is, it seems odd that an outspoken adherent of extremist Vulcan anti-human xenophobia would become popular and influential among their ranks. More and more, I'm thinking Patar was a long-term sleeper agent for the Logic Extremists (or perhaps turned and became radicalized at a later time after being well-established in the admiralty), and Cornwell somehow uncovered her true ideological leanings fairly recently.

    Kor
     
  18. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    IIRC,the real Patar had been dead for some time by the time we first meet the fake one. Depending on how long Control had been using that holo-fake, maybe that's why Cornwell thought she was a logic extremist. It could have been an example of Control not really getting it right (i.e. not doing a good job at faking Vulcan behavior).
     
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  19. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    A UFP official body embracing ideas, including hostile ones, appears intuitively attractive to me. Surely there could be Flat Earthers in the Deep Space Colonization Board, Vulcanxit activists in the Joint Committee for Sticking Together Forever, and Rabid Defeatists in the Defense Command, for the fresh viewpoint.

    OTOH, Vulcans are often seen as top bosses in Starfleet, in TNG, DS9 and DSC at least. A diverse catering of Vulcan viewpoints might be a defining Starfleet parameter, and indeed the reason why the frankly quite inhuman Prime Directive always appears so important but does fluctuate between "hugely important" and "insanely important" as a function of time.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  20. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    How in the shit would that even work?
    "The Earth is flat."
    "Dude, look out the window. It clearly isn't."