Should the Irish be decanonized?
- Thread starter Trekker4747
- Start date
No French person I ever knew sported such a nice non-regional percieved pronunciation (meaning what is generally known as "BBC English"). And he drinks Earl Grey, bless him!
Well, no other European cultures are really represented on Trek, such as Germany, Austria, Portugal, Croatia, Poland and what have you.
You don't have any Brazilians, too, and I mean the majority who descend from portuguese people and are called Ribeiro and Andrade instead of "Ramirez"... or in the south, where they're all called Schneider and Schmidt.
As for the Irish pub run by Germans in Paris, I live in Germany and frequently go to an Irish pub run by people from England! The world is a small place.
Well, no other European cultures are really represented on Trek, such as Germany, Austria, Portugal, Croatia, Poland and what have you.
You don't have any Brazilians, too, and I mean the majority who descend from portuguese people and are called Ribeiro and Andrade instead of "Ramirez"... or in the south, where they're all called Schneider and Schmidt.
As for the Irish pub run by Germans in Paris, I live in Germany and frequently go to an Irish pub run by people from England! The world is a small place.
GodThingFormerly
A Different Kind of Asshole
^ Geologist Jäger spoke with a (rather unconvincing) German accent in The Squire of Gothos. 
TGT
TGT
Yeah, there were some between 1914 and 1918 as well.
It seems like Star Trek depicts most Earth cultures that exist in real life with the same amount of insulting shallowness as it's depiction of alien humanoid societies. And I hardly watched Voyager's own Irish episode in Season Six... :shudder:
MeanJoePhaser
Admiral
Didn't Data say the Irish were little more than a fad that did not last past the mid-21st century?
Or was that something else.
The Irish colony in UP THE LONG LADDER were luddites, weren't they? Not sure why they chose 1865 dress and stereotypical behaviour, but I'm not sure why the Amish dress the way they do, either.
As for offensive portrayals..., they come and some go and some are unshakeable. There's a current trend is to portray American military and intelligence agencies as villainous/corrupt. There was, and is, the Russian mafia stereotype, the Italian mafia stereotype, lots of jewish stereotypes (remember when every other show on t.v. had a character who was an irritating, sometimes neurotic jewish guy?) etc...
Or was that something else.
The Irish colony in UP THE LONG LADDER were luddites, weren't they? Not sure why they chose 1865 dress and stereotypical behaviour, but I'm not sure why the Amish dress the way they do, either.
As for offensive portrayals..., they come and some go and some are unshakeable. There's a current trend is to portray American military and intelligence agencies as villainous/corrupt. There was, and is, the Russian mafia stereotype, the Italian mafia stereotype, lots of jewish stereotypes (remember when every other show on t.v. had a character who was an irritating, sometimes neurotic jewish guy?) etc...
Actually, I find those rather insulting. And not just the implication, but also the accents. Why oh why would Germans talk amongst themselves in terrible English instead of their native language? And if it's "supposed" to be German but it's English so the public will understand...well, you might as well drop the bogus, ridiculous, embarrassing attempt of emulating someone's way of pronouncing foreign sounds.
Doesn't anyone on Trek know about the great art of phonetics and phonology? It makes me angry, like portrayals of Brazilians, which are never, ever accurate. Except on that CSI: Miami episode.
So, yes, cliches should be dropped altogether. Research would be nice, Wikipedia has a few insights...
I'm another Paddy and no I've never taken any of those stereotype-episodes seriously.Actually the set dressing of "Fair haven" was well done,even if the shop signs in Irish and the green postbox were wrong for the period consistent with the vintage automobile..(we still were part of the Empire until 1921).
Iwould believe Kate Mulgrew had some part to play in the design....Ms.Mulgrew spent some time here in county Clare on a shoot during the early 80's.
Iwould believe Kate Mulgrew had some part to play in the design....Ms.Mulgrew spent some time here in county Clare on a shoot during the early 80's.
That's not the problem. My problem is:
The accent is fake. But okay. That's only a small issue, though the misuse of suprasegmentals is painful to my ears. The real problem is the Space Nazis talking to each other in English with those accents. If they're "really" talking in German, then for God's sake drop the accent.
It's like in Zorro where they're supposedly communicating in Spanish yet everyone except Anthony Hopkins has a Spanish accent (Banderas's was real, I know). It drives me up the wall.
The space Nazis per se are insulting, though. Those ENT episodes were ridiculous and nearly turned me off the show.
Anyway, I guess it makes everyone angry when their country is portrayed as a cliche. That goes for the Irish, the Germans, the Latin-Americans etc... only I, as a linguist, tend to notice the speech-connected things more.
Yeah, I understand that. It was a bit like in Memoirs of a Geisha, where the Chinese actresses tried using Japanese accents while speaking English. Uh...
On the other hand, Germans speaking English with German accents while 'really' speaking German makes more sense then having them speak with a Southern drawl, say.
On the other hand, Germans speaking English with German accents while 'really' speaking German makes more sense then having them speak with a Southern drawl, say.
What other way were they supposed to have though?
There was a bit of a stereotype creeping through though in DS9. Bashir playing an almost effete English type, intellectual and not keen on getting his hands grubby, a bit up himself. His friend of course is the good old Irish type, not afraid to get stuck in, more robust in physique and humour if not a little more down to earth in hsi thinking. And of course they're good drinking buddies.
Maybe its just me but I've seen that coming through more than once in British TV.
Other than that, my Irish roots would be more pleased at being represented by O'Brien than I would be at being represented by, say, Malcolm Reed (if there were much English in me
)
One could certainly argue that. But Bashir seemed to be more of an irrepressably naive, optimistic type, not, to invoke a classic and related British stereotype, the dry and proper stiff-upper lip. I'd agree he was a better British character than Reed, though.
O'Brien struck me as realistic, by-the-by. I know people like him, even if I bear little resemblance myself (as I've observed once or twice, Voyager's Doctor is the Star Trek character I most resemble). So I'm hardly going to get neurotic and declaim a stereotype where arguably none exists.
To be fair, while Bashir certainly played into traditional American stereotypes about the English, he did not play at all into traditional American stereotypes about Arabs. In point of fact, I find it somewhat refreshing that Trek could take an actor of one ethnicity but give him all the mannerisms associated with an entirely different one.
yeah, Bashir acted British but looked egyptian.
Reed was insulting. even non-football loving english people would perk up at news we'd bloody qualified for the world cup! and that crappy RN rip-off military decorum? do me a favour!
Reed was insulting. even non-football loving english people would perk up at news we'd bloody qualified for the world cup! and that crappy RN rip-off military decorum? do me a favour!