Shipwide Assigned Insignia Transition To Delta Shield For All

[Christopher]

Personally, I wonder if Augment technology is derived from some of the first bits Starling sold off from the Aeon. Particularly in a post-"Super blood" Trek continuity

Even if the Aeon is part of the main timeline, the timing doesn't work. It would've probably taken many years to decipher any such technology and develop it to the point where it could be used to create Augments, and the interval between the timeship crash and Khan's likely birthdate seems too short. Besides, why would a Temporal Integrity Commission patrol ship be equipped with genetic engineering technology? Engines, computers, sensors, weapons, power systems, that I could buy, but biotech? That's a bit random, isn't it?

(Although, as I believe you're aware, I hinted in DTI: Watching the Clock that the Augment program was influenced by temporal intervention by Future Guy, doing the same sort of thing he did with the genetically enhanced Suliban, albeit more clandestinely.)

 

[Rat Boy]

Didn't Braxton say in his second appearance that he remembered being on Earth in the 20th Century?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Yes, he did. In "Relativity", Braxton said he had to go through extensive rehabilitation before he was allowed to return to duty. Presumably this involved the "second" Braxton (the one at the end of "Future's End" who didn't remember it) being temporally integrated with the homeless and derelict version (who'd lived in California for decades) that did. I know the latter Braxton's ultimate fate was never revealed, but I'm guessing that 29th-century Starfleet somehow managed to retrieve him.

@Christopher: If Chronowerx was not part of the main timeline, then why does the EMH's holo-emitter still exist?

 

[USS Triumphant]

Before this gets out of hand and derails the thread just remember that's my own personal fanon interpretation.

Along these lines, my preference - regardless of the intentions of the show's creators - has always been to think that each ship and station had its own insignia, and that Starfleet's organizational insignia was the delta. The reason Enterprise has it as its ship's insignia as well is because it is the flagship.

 

[BillJ]

The reason Enterprise has it as its ship's insignia as well is because it is the flagship.

I don't think that was ever the intent.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

and the Antares logo for the Tellarite branch

Though from the sounds of the episode Antares may have been a merchant marine ship and not whoever Kirk was working for at the time.

 

[Christopher]

Along these lines, my preference - regardless of the intentions of the show's creators - has always been to think that each ship and station had its own insignia, and that Starfleet's organizational insignia was the delta. The reason Enterprise has it as its ship's insignia as well is because it is the flagship.

Except the "flagship" idea was never used in TOS. The only ships referred to as flagships in TOS were the Fesarius, the Romulan ship from "Balance of Terror," and the Romulan Commander's ship from "The Enterprise Incident." It wasn't until TNG that an Enterprise was referred to canonically as the Federation flagship (whatever that's supposed to mean -- it's a misuse of the word, which should refer either to the command ship of a specific task force or the ship on which an admiral has his or her command post).

TOS itself treated the Enterprise simply as one of the twelve Constitution-class ships. Sure, Kirk often mentioned having the best ship, first officer, or crew in the fleet, but that's what you'd expect any captain to say. There's no evidence in TOS for the E having any exceptional status in Starfleet. I mean, Kirk is only a captain, but we saw two other Constitution-class ships, the Constellation and the Lexington, commanded by commodores. And in "The Ultimate Computer," Kirk and the Enterprise were clearly under the command of Commodore Wesley of the Lexington. The E was overtly a junior ship in the hierarchy, and therefore could not possibly have been the flagship.

 

[uniderth]

Maybe they beamed the two Braxton's together like they did with everyone in "Tomorrow is Yesterday". Anyway I concede the point about Braxton to whoever wants it, because I know how this discussion goes. Haha.

Well, whatever the reason for the multiple insignias, I really like the diversity.

 

[BillJ]

Well, whatever the reason for the multiple insignias, I really like the diversity.

+1

 

[USS Triumphant]

I don't think that was ever the intent.

Except the "flagship" idea was never used in TOS....

Was there some part of "regardless of the intentions of the show's creators" that was unclear? Were you confused when I said that my notion was along the same lines as that of someone else who was clarifying that their notions were only personal fanon? Yeesh.

 

[Christopher]

^But surely "personal fanon" can be revised in the light of new information. I've had my own personal interpretation of the Trek universe for decades, and I've revised it countless times as new information has come to my attention. Often I've had misconceptions of mine corrected by comments other people made, and I've welcomed their insights, because I don't want to overlook anything. Re-evaluating one's take on things is part of the fun, surely, because it keeps the mind more active than coming up with one idea and sticking to it inflexibly forevermore. And comparing notes and different ideas with other fans, having friendly debates about the specifics and the possibilities, is also part of the fun. It's why we're here on this BBS, isn't it? To exchange ideas and discuss possibilities? If we all agreed on everything, or if we refused to rethink anything, there'd be nothing to talk about.

 

[BillJ]

I don't think that was ever the intent.

Except the "flagship" idea was never used in TOS....

Was there some part of "regardless of the intentions of the show's creators" that was unclear? Were you confused when I said that my notion was along the same lines as that of someone else who was clarifying that their notions were only personal fanon? Yeesh.

I still thought people wanted their personal fanon to make sense within the context of the show.

 

[nonbelligerency]

I was the OP and as a new person, was quite pleased when it got so many responses. I love Trek and totally agree with you. It's fun getting together with others and talking about the various insignia, Kirk's green/gold shirt or turbolift doors. There is so much content for discussion we could probably go indefinitely.

^But surely "personal fanon" can be revised in the light of new information. I've had my own personal interpretation of the Trek universe for decades, and I've revised it countless times as new information has come to my attention. Often I've had misconceptions of mine corrected by comments other people made, and I've welcomed their insights, because I don't want to overlook anything. Re-evaluating one's take on things is part of the fun, surely, because it keeps the mind more active than coming up with one idea and sticking to it inflexibly forevermore. And comparing notes and different ideas with other fans, having friendly debates about the specifics and the possibilities, is also part of the fun. It's why we're here on this BBS, isn't it? To exchange ideas and discuss possibilities? If we all agreed on everything, or if we refused to rethink anything, there'd be nothing to talk about.

 

[USS Triumphant]

^But surely "personal fanon" can be revised in the light of new information. I've had my own personal interpretation of the Trek universe for decades, and I've revised it countless times as new information has come to my attention. Often I've had misconceptions of mine corrected by comments other people made, and I've welcomed their insights

I still thought people wanted their personal fanon to make sense within the context of the show.

I do sometimes have my thoughts and insights influenced by conversations with fellow fans, yes. In fact, I'd say it is more likely that I will adjust the picture of Trek that I have in my head from that than from actual episode content at this point. Because I have to admit something: I actually believe that my personal fanon Trek is BETTER than Trek as presented on screen. As I watched the series through originally (but not in original run, for TOS, but as I caught reruns), and read the novels, my mind and the conversations about the episodes with my friends and on this board filled in missing details, and usually if the shows or novels later contradicted those details with something I regard as inferior, I've just dismissed those as "errors".

In other words, if TPTB were to turn me loose to make a new Primeverse TV series, I'd be one of those jackass showrunners who - by the lights of the fandom - wouldn't pay proper respect to the original material in order to indulge my own ideas. And hopefully, they would then proceed to love parts of my ideas and make up excuses for the differences (in a Marvel No-Prize like fashion)... just like the fan community has done for every other series so far.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Well, as long as we are being thorough, let's not forget this.

One thing I love about this board is when someone points out something about TOS that I never knew before. Thank you!

It's hard to tell from that image, but does the crewmember standing near the turbolift have the same insignia of the person in the foreground? Is it possible that Security was originally intended to have its own, unique, insignia? (I actually like that idea, since Security and Engineering are so fundamentally different.)

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I always liked the bit in the Reeves-Stevens novel Federation, where Zephram Cochrane is explaining the broad strokes of how his warp theory works to someone, and makes a sketch in the dirt of what the warped space field looks like. it's roughly in the shape of the Starfleet delta.

 

[USS Triumphant]

I always liked the bit in the Reeves-Stevens novel Federation, where Zephram Cochrane is explaining the broad strokes of how his warp theory works to someone, and makes a sketch in the dirt of what the warped space field looks like. it's roughly in the shape of the Starfleet delta.

Me, too. I also like the idea that he was human but from Alpha Centauri - but I've let that one go.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I always liked the bit in the Reeves-Stevens novel Federation, where Zephram Cochrane is explaining the broad strokes of how his warp theory works to someone, and makes a sketch in the dirt of what the warped space field looks like. it's roughly in the shape of the Starfleet delta.

I utterly hate the idea. Mileage varies.

 

[GSchnitzer]

Well, as long as we are being thorough, let's not forget this.

One thing I love about this board is when someone points out something about TOS that I never knew before. Thank you!

It's hard to tell from that image, but does the crewmember standing near the turbolift have the same insignia of the person in the foreground? Is it possible that Security was originally intended to have its own, unique, insignia? (I actually like that idea, since Security and Engineering are so fundamentally different.)

Yes, the gentleman standing guard next to the turbo-lift doors also has this same angular "C" shape on his tunic patch:

 

[BillJ]

All the scuff marks and little damage we see definitely gives the Enterprise a sense of history from day one.