Ships Tactical power

[Deks]

Well, to be honest, neither the Enterprise-D or Voyager ever really defeated Borg cubes on their own (Endgame future technologies not withstanding).

They both held out in a firefight with respective cubes on their own. Voyager even had a full blown battle with the Tactical cube (which could be stronger or far more combat oriented than the cube that attacked the Enterprise-D - the armor along it's hull certainly implies it being better protected) and was able to survive for several minutes before having to retreat.
In both cases though, neither ship was a match for their opponents, but given what we saw on-screen from their performance, they seem to behave equally in terms of firepower and shield strengths (Voyager only being handicapped in the torpedo department because it had fewer than a Galaxy class - but 36 is probably not it's maximum - I would surmise that it should be able to carry at least 50 or close to 100).

Aside from that... the Defiant could be on par with both of those ships in terms of firepower and shields - due to obviously lacking creature comforts or luxuries (Voyager can get away with having a minimal compliment of those due to it's size, but it would still be 'stripped down' compared to a Galaxy class - which is why it would be able to match it in weapons/shields and outclass it in Warp speed).

Aside from that... most new ships post Wolf-359 would likely be on similar footing like the Galaxy class.
And depending if SF sacrificed certain things in luxuries and creature comforts, then they could all well be on equal ground tactically (except in torpedo counts which would vary by size of the ship) and of course would excel at their designated functions.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I have to say I’m surprised not to see the Sovereign-Class up there. Of all the ships that are on the list there are a few that haven’t been seen often enough to judge their overall tactical strength.

Galaxy-Class — At the time of TNG, it was the largest and strongest class, packing an impressive weapons array, though all very much focused forward. Though she was responsible for destroying two Borg ships, one was because they had access to Locutus and the other was using the power of a star, rather than an all out firefight. Which engagements they were seen in the ship never seemed all that impressive I have to say—the E-D was taken over by Ferengi on two stolen Birds-of-Prey then destroyed by a defunct BoP. She would be pretty high up the list though.

Defiant-Class — Designed to fight the Borg and though she only did so once (only to be left adrift), she did take a serious beating beforehand. They are small, strong and quick to produce; making a wave of Defiant’s a very serious force to be reckoned with. Seeing the action the Defiant saw in the Dominion War she lives up to her role as a warship. My vote would go with her.

Intrepid-Class — The quintessential ‘God Ship’. Given all the odds against her and the fact that she is primarily an explorer and not a tactical cruiser, she somehow comes through every engagement (and let’s face it there were a lot) with only a few steam vents blasted off and flickering consoles.

Nebula-Class — A ship that has been in the background of a lot of battles, but never really been the focus, so there is no way to know exactly how well she would perform solo, but they do seem to be pretty decent ‘team players’. Although given that some sources say that the Nebula-Class Endeavour was the only ship of the forty at Wolf 359 to survive, obviously the ship can hold its own in some instances.

Akira-Class — Again another ship that has seen a lot of background action but never anything that focuses solely on the ship—she did face off again the Prometheus and several Romulan Warbirds however. I have never bought the whole fifteen torpedo launchers, as it seems so against anything else in Starfleet that it just seems farfetched. She also seems to have a lack of phasers arrays. If the ship did carry several wings of starfighters, I’d say that she would be force to be reckoned with.

Ambassador-Class — Yet again another class we haven’t seen nearly enough of. She is one of my favourite ships (definitely of the big ‘capital class’ type ships), but seeing that she has faded from view over DS9, it may be said that the class is being phased out in favour of newer and more powerful ships. That being said, the E-C did face off against four Romulan Warbirds and though she didn’t win it does show that the ship was up to the task—at least for a short time.

Nova-Class — A science ship packing around twelve phaser strips? Seems very excessive for such a small ship, but with a poor warp drive (no faster than warp 8) and very limited range and resources, she would be at the bottom of this line-up of ships.

Excelsior-Class — Despite being on the go for decades and a few prize fights (TUC, against the Defiant) she hasn’t really ever had chance to shine. Always in the background of big battles, though a few do get whooped, they do make a stand and hold their own. Seeing as how Starfleet has kept them going throughout wars with the Cardassians, Tzenkethi, Klingons and Dominion, as well as major conflicts against the Talarians and Borg, the ship is obviously far more robust and durable than many other classes available.

Norway-Class — A few distant background shots in First Contact really isn’t enough to judge. I do seem to be in the minority that love this ship.

Steamrunner-Class — Like the Nebula-Class she has never had centre stage for a major battle or engagement, though has been numerous throughout the Dominion War. Her compact hull design would be a positive feature, but she does lack phaser arrays (with none as far as I can tell at the back).

But all that is just my thoughts.

 

[F. King Daniel]

NuEnterprise would beat them all. Blinding their enemies with lens flares, they'd beam over an army of redshirts. With the shaky cam, enemy crews wouldnt be able to see what was going on and would be swifly overpowered

 

[T'Girl]

I have to say I’m surprised not to see the Sovereign-Class

But what would you base a opinion upon? In FC, the Sovereign class (Enterprise E) joined in the fleet firing on the cube. While it did it's share of the damage, so did other ships.

Note that it was Picard knowledge of the Borg, and not the Sovereign classes sensors that selected the target.

Later the Sovereign class fired on the Borg sphere, the Sovereign lost it's shields passing through the time vortex, and it's reasonable that the sphere did as well, plus the Borg don't seem to use shields much, plus the Borg might not have been able to beam to the Sovereign with their shield up.

Given that it had no shields, Kirk's Constitution class likely could have destroyed the sphere.

In Insurrection, Riker employed a trick, using the local space environment and the ship ejecting fuel, to defeat the Sona ships. It seem pretty clear that the Sovereign would not have been able to defeat the Sona ships using it's weapons and shields. While the Sovereign was impaired by the local environment (sublight only, and that not at full power), so were the Sona vessels.

In Nemesis, the Sovereign was just plain out matched. Again it was the crews abilities (Troi's psychic connection to the enemy) that enabled the Sovereign to damage the enemy ship, and then the Sovereign's Captain willingness to ram the enemy, and finally a crewmember's willingness committing suicide that destroyed the enemy ship.

So where did we see the Sovereign's superiority? That it's bow was strong enough to inflict damage through ramming? The Sovereign does carry quantum torpedoes, but is this because her torpedo system is different? Or can any Starfleet vessel, if so issued, fire quantum torpedoes? We saw nothing to suggest her phasers are more than "fleet average," for that time period. The same with her sensors and shields.

So while he Sovereign class was no doubt top of the line given her age, it didn't seem to be special, or superior, or unusual.

 

[jpch]

Well, to be honest, neither the Enterprise-D or Voyager ever really defeated Borg cubes on their own (Endgame future technologies not withstanding).

They both held out in a firefight with respective cubes on their own. Voyager even had a full blown battle with the Tactical cube (which could be stronger or far more combat oriented than the cube that attacked the Enterprise-D - the armor along it's hull certainly implies it being better protected) and was able to survive for several minutes before having to retreat.
In both cases though, neither ship was a match for their opponents, but given what we saw on-screen from their performance, they seem to behave equally in terms of firepower and shield strengths (Voyager only being handicapped in the torpedo department because it had fewer than a Galaxy class - but 36 is probably not it's maximum - I would surmise that it should be able to carry at least 50 or close to 100).

Aside from that... the Defiant could be on par with both of those ships in terms of firepower and shields - due to obviously lacking creature comforts or luxuries (Voyager can get away with having a minimal compliment of those due to it's size, but it would still be 'stripped down' compared to a Galaxy class - which is why it would be able to match it in weapons/shields and outclass it in Warp speed).

Aside from that... most new ships post Wolf-359 would likely be on similar footing like the Galaxy class.
And depending if SF sacrificed certain things in luxuries and creature comforts, then they could all well be on equal ground tactically (except in torpedo counts which would vary by size of the ship) and of course would excel at their designated functions.

As usual your opinion is so realistic and unbiased i love it when you comment

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I have to say I’m surprised not to see the Sovereign-Class

But what would you base a opinion upon?

All very true, T'Girl. It's absence from a list such as this, whilst other less well known ships (Norway-Class) were included, surprised me is all.

I do have to agree that regardless of a ships capabilities, it will always come down to cunning tactics and shrewd strategy that will win a battle--it has been shown time and time again (such as with the E-E).

 

[jpch]

I have to say I’m surprised not to see the Sovereign-Class

But what would you base a opinion upon?

All very true, T'Girl. It's absence from a list such as this, whilst other less well known ships (Norway-Class) were included, surprised me is all.

I do have to agree that regardless of a ships capabilities, it will always come down to cunning tactics and shrewd strategy that will win a battle--it has been shown time and time again (such as with the E-E).

the Prometheus and sovereign class are clearly superior to all of those listed in the poll. wanna debate that sure lets start.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I really didn't like the Prometheus. I found it very ugly, as well as kinda pointless, as the role of a tactical cruiser is filled by the Akira-Class, whilst Defiant's have lots of firepower whilst also being easier and cheaper to produce.

 

[Sandoval]

The prometheus was painfully fanboyish.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Those baby nacelle that popped out the top of the saucer section was ridiculous.

 

[T'Girl]

... the role of a tactical cruiser is filled by the Akira-Class ...

Then why have a Sovereign class?

While we know when we first saw the Akira class, we don't know when it entered service with the fleet. I don't hold to determining such information based on registration numbers. There no sure indication that they're sequential. The Akira might be nearing the end of it's service life and ships like the Sovereign and the Prometheus are it's replacement (personal opinion).

The Prometheus is my top favorite "non-Hero" ship design, but I agree about the baby nacelles. It was a prototype, I thought (more personal opinion) that two larger nacelles which would swing out of the bottom of the upper section would be better, bigger than the babies, but still smaller than the four engines on the other two sections.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Then why have a Sovereign class?

I have always seen the Sovereign-Class as an explorer. Granted she didn't do much exploring during the times she was on screen, but I would envision the PR department of Starfleet would want the Enterprise to be primarily a ship of peace, rather than classed as a warship.

As for the Akira-Class coming to the end of her life, I'm not so sure. She may have entered the service in the early 2360s, so would have many decades ahead of her. I make this assumption as the class looks far more modern that the others that were developed during the "lost era" (New Orleans, Springfield, Freedom, etc).

But again, all that is just my personal standpoint on the matter

 

[The Badger]

I have to say I’m surprised not to see the Sovereign-Class up there. Of all the ships that are on the list there are a few that haven’t been seen often enough to judge their overall tactical strength...

OK, I'm not going to quote the whole thing here, just say that this whole post is a well thought out analysis.

However...

Defiant-Class — Designed to fight the Borg and though she only did so once (only to be left adrift), she did take a serious beating beforehand. They are small, strong and quick to produce...

and

...Defiant's have lots of firepower whilst also being easier and cheaper to produce.

We don't know for sure that a Defiant is easier, cheaper and quicker to build. It's a reasonable assumption to be sure, based on it's small size, but it's still an assumption. Given the Defiant's nature as a new, cutting edge, revolutionary design, it may well be difficult, expensive and slow to produce.

The DS9 Technical Manual (a non-cannon source, I'll admit) reflects that view, with many components being made from substances that can not be readily replicated and have a slow construction time. It also states that in it's initial Borg suppression role, there would be just six frames built.

... the role of a tactical cruiser is filled by the Akira-Class ...

Then why have a Sovereign class?

Different ships for different functions. The Akira may be primarily combat orientated, whilst the Sovereign can perform the same tasks, plus exploration. Akiras are cheaper, but not as versatile. Maybe.

Those baby nacelle that popped out the top of the saucer section was ridiculous.

The Prometheus is my top favorite "non-Hero" ship design, but I agree about the baby nacelles. It was a prototype, I thought (more personal opinion) that two larger nacelles which would swing out of the bottom of the upper section would be better, bigger than the babies, but still smaller than the four engines on the other two sections.

Or how about 'inboard' nacelles, like the Defiant. Come to think of it, there are lots of Trek ships with no visible warp drive. I'd have preferred the upper section like that than those feeble jack in a box engines we got.

 

[MacLeod]

^Then again perhaps any initial fabrication problems with the Definat Class were ironed out as it entered mainstream production.

The first few of anything can be the hardest to make,

 

[T'Girl]

Or how about 'inboard' nacelles, like the Defiant.

Loving t.

 

[Nightdiamond]

The Defiant-- it was shown a number of times taking direct shots without shields and still functioning near 100%.

It single handedly defeated a gigantic battleship.

It was disabled in the Borg battle, but did outlast at least one Akira. It looked like it did some damage too.

Seems like it's capable of obliterating some starships with a few blasts, as opposed to repeatedly firing to cause damage.

When the Dominion threat emerged, they sent the Defiant-- not a Galaxy, Intrepid, ect, which shows how they viewed the matter.

 

[Deks]

They sent the Defiant to confront the Dominion because Sisko wanted it.
Other than that, SF itself gave Sisko an 'unfinished' ship that was for the most part riddled with problems. And while I will agree it was effective against the bug ships in destroying at least 1, it was still defeated in that first combat and captured.
Apart from the Sovereign and Intrepid classes, it was probably the only one available at the time with anti-Borg systems that could be spared.
The mission to find the Founders wasn't really an idea that SF 'cherished' if I recall correctly, so they gave a bug-riddled ship to Sisko with which he could carry out the mission (though, by the tone of his voice in the debriefing, it would have appeared that he expected it to be a 1 way trip).

Also, when exactly did the Defiant defeat a gigantic battleship single-handed?
To my recollection, it's sister-ship was destroyed by one, and in a fleet engagement there was so many ships flying around with what probably resulted in the battle-ship taking severe damage, along with the Klingon BoP's escorting the Defiant to penetrate the fleet, both of which were destroyed (but not before both fired numerous shots at the battle-ship and one of those BoP's rammed into the thing).

Unless you are talking about the Mirror Universe Negh'Var ship.
Lol... first off, we don't know just how the Regent's ship compared to Negh'Vars in the regular universe power-wise. It could have been a weaker (albeit larger) vessel.
Also, that thing DID suffer some damage with rebel's Ds9 firepower (such as it was) before being engaged by the Defiant - and it also had a fighter flying in very close proximity to the hull at the end (both of which were aiming for it's weapons).
Otherwise- the Defiant seemed to be outmatched (more or less) and would have been destroyed if Sisko hadn't intervened with his tactics and Bashir in the end.
It was sufficiently powerful to defeat the larger opponent with some clever tactics, but power-wise it seemed to suffer some hefty damage from the larger ship.

As for the Akira... it could have been made just before the Galaxy class entered the service.
Could be around the time frame after the Ambassador class came into the picture.

 

[jpch]

The Defiant-- it was shown a number of times taking direct shots without shields and still functioning near 100%.

It single handedly defeated a gigantic battleship.

It was disabled in the Borg battle, but did outlast at least one Akira. It looked like it did some damage too.

Seems like it's capable of obliterating some starships with a few blasts, as opposed to repeatedly firing to cause damage.

When the Dominion threat emerged, they sent the Defiant-- not a Galaxy, Intrepid, ect, which shows how they viewed the matter.

What battleship?? the Dominion battleship destroyed a defiant class without much prob.

they did not send a Galaxy ok maybe since its too much an exploration ship with civilians etc...

They did not send an Intrepid because there was none XD the Intrepid were built a bit later,and there was only 2 of them,the U.S.S Intrepid and Voyager later the belerophon(no idea what its called) Admiral Ross Flagship came(DS9 season7).

All ships survived beating without shields,tho the Defiant always had defensive issues,even with shields at 80% sometimes we saw major explosions inside and bulkheads rupturing,discharges ...and if taking damage without shields is any indication of strength Voyager survived 11 month without shields taking hull damage from many warships and kept functioning even with 9 out of 15 decks destroyed or unusable.(that's evidence enough that the Intrepid is far more resilient defensively then most other ships like Galaxy,Defiant etc...)

in addition it only oblitarated small ships like Jem'Hadar bug ships and BoP,when it took on something larger like the ,Dominion Battleship it kept firing uselessly without being able to penetrate shields or cause that much damage.

 

[T'Girl]

that's evidence enough that the Intrepid is far more resilient defensively then most other ships like Galaxy,Defiant etc...
.

In a thread several months ago, I point out that if the Voyager's gel pack computer were superior to what come before, then in a few years, the majority of Starfleet starship would be equiped with them. The spec would be transmitted to individual ship for replication, or if replication of that particular item were impossible, the ship would have gel packs installed at a starbase lay-over.

It would be the same with something like Defiants "pulse-phasers." If they were an advantage over regular phasers, even if only at short ranges, then what could be the explanation for the Enterprise in Nemesis not being equiped with them? Have both phaser systems, modern day warships have multiple weapons systems. If need be have the pulse phasers in a turret.

Unless they are in some way undesireable. They confurred no particular advantage, and was a case of the Defiant having to carry them for some reason.

The same with any special feature of any given ship, if it's a good idea then in a few years near every ship in the fleet will have it. Even the Prometheus's ability to divide for combat in a way came from the Enterpise Dee's ability to divide and leave it's civilians/families in a safe area. It was a good idea.

If special hull armor works on the Defiant, then when they begin to construct the Sovereign, the special hull was included. And would be on all major Starfleet new constructions.

In time, older ships would be retrofitted.

 

[Nightdiamond]

True, it had bugs and the first mission didn't go as planned.

But it's the performance afterwards that tells the story.

The Defiant performed pretty good after that, as the crew worked out the bugs, and kept their guards up more.

One example, "The Die is Cast", the Defiant literally plowed headfirst into a fleet of incoming ships, leaving a trail of destroyed ships in its path.

The mission to find the Founders wasn't really an idea that SF 'cherished' if I recall correctly, so they gave a bug-riddled ship to Sisko with which he could carry out the mission

Now this seems odd.

If the Dominion just destroyed one of their top of the line ships, and a Bajoran colony, the smart thing to do would be to send a powerful ship that could demonstrate they could fight back.

(Even though they did botch it up a bit)


Yep, I was referring to the Mirror Universe's Negh'var. It was huge, I'd say humongous.

Even though from another universe, it was still a real ship apparently based on the same design and specifications.

The Defiant built in the M.U was built from the original Defiant's specs, so it would be safe to judge its performance on the Defiant's strengths.

The other ships seem to have to pick and pick and pick to do damage swith their phasers, whereas the Defiant was able to obliterate a ship within a few seconds which seemed to be an advantage, battle wise.