Shipper Debate Resolution

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by Top41, Sep 27, 2004.

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  1. Top41

    Top41 Vice Admiral Moderator

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    or, Here's What We Think. ;)

    Alright, after following the Shipper Mediation thread debate for weeks and weeks, we've come to a few conclusions.

    Before I start, I do want to say that I think you guys are great posters and that this can be resolved. However, the shipper stuff has gotten out of control and it has started to bleed into other threads, so you guys really need to dial it back.

    Please, keep shipper stuff contained to shipper threads. In general, when discussing spoilers for "Home" or episode 8 or whatever, other posters do not want to see it devolve into an argument about T/T vs. A/T. The detailed shipper stuff needs to be contained to the individual ship threads, and the debate between the two ships just needs to be tabled for now. It should be clear by now that you're not going to change each other's minds about which ship is the "best," and why would you want to anyways? Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion and there are plenty of folks in each camp.

    Another point that needs to be addressed is the oversensitivity we've been seeing in regards to the characters. Guys, these are characters on a television show, and other posters have a right not to like them. If someone has a well-thought out argument about why Archer is a bad captain or why they agree with Jolene Blalock's dissatisfaction with T'Pol's character or why they think Tucker is a hick, they have a right to post that. Drive by bashes aren't allowed of course ("Archer sucks" and nothing else, for example), but outside of that, people have a right to criticize these characters. It would be best to develop a thicker skin in regards to that. ;)

    What isn't allowed are personal insults. That means if someone writes a paragraph about why they think Tucker is portrayed as a stereotypical Southern hick and isn't that bright, and you flame them or bait them, you're going to get a warning. Debate their points, don't immediately assume they're a snobby/prejudiced/rude person just because they don't like the same character you do.

    If you see something you think is offensive, please hit the notify mod button. Don't flame the person and then send one of us a PM. We'd prefer the notify mod function, since a then a copy is sent to all of us, rather than just one. Use the comments field if necessary, but keep in mind that we can only issue warnings for things covered under the board rules.

    Please keep in mind that if you go into the other ship's thread and decide to lobby a shot at their ship in their thread, you're going to get very limited sympathy from the mods. It's only natural that T/T'P's are going to see
    more chem between T/T'P than A/T'P, and they're going to say it in their own thread. The same is true of the A/T'P's and their threads. Try to discuss your own ship in your own thread (since that's the topic, not the other ship) but don't go into the opposition's thread to antagonize them or try to start an argument over which ship is better.

    None of us want to shut the shipper threads, but if we continue to see shipper stuff all over the forum in unrelated threads or if we see the fighting between the two factions continuing, then we're going to have to shut them down for now. We'd all rather not do that. Also, as a side note, please keep conflicts from the shipper boards like House of Tucker and Logical Choice at those boards. Don't bring them to TrekBBS, and don't insult those boards here. Thanks. :)

    Your friendly Enterprise mods, Top41 and jkladis

    Link to mediation thread:

    Mediation Thread
     
  2. pookha

    pookha Admiral Admiral

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    [/QUOTE]What isn't allowed are personal insults. That means if someone writes a paragraph about why they think Tucker is portrayed as a stereotypical Southern hick and isn't that bright, and you flame them or bait them, you're going to get a warning. Debate their points, don't immediately assume they're a snobby/prejudiced/rude person just because they don't like the same character you do.

    [/QUOTE]

    so if someone does make a point about a character we are still allowed to debate their point as long as we do it in a polite manner.
     
  3. Darlah Nahan Halrad

    Darlah Nahan Halrad Commander Red Shirt

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    I think the problem is that too many people feel their trolling and flaming is justified. Whether defending the good name of a particular character (who doesn't actually exist) or an actor (who doesn't know those defending him/her actually exist), or even a point of view, the urge to dawn the "cape and cowl" and swoop down and smite all the evil doers sometimes overwhelms them.

    So as long as there are posters who believe they're [[[RIGHT]]] no matter how wrong they may be, hostilities will continue.
     
  4. Htown

    Htown Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm not a shipper, nor do I claim to be, and I don't want to start anything, but I have a question.

    How come this is true for ships but not for shows?

    There are posters who lob shots at Enterprise in Enterprise threads, and that seems to be fine. If you don't like a particular 'ship, though, and go into the thread to say why that 'ship sucks, you'll get little sympathy from the mods. However, if you don't like a particular show, and go into a thread about it to say why that show sucks, everything's fine?

    One way or the other, let's have some consistency, please.
     
  5. Anna Yolei

    Anna Yolei Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That is because this is the ENTERPRISE forum, and all topics ENT-related--supporting of the show or not--go here. Now, if there is a particular shipper thread dedidcated for a designated group (A/T, T/T) and someone goes in to a thread to purposely flame it, that's completely different.

    Flames and criticism are two different things. Even shipper critism can be blown out of proportion more often than not (See the many, many many A/T'P vs. T/T'P threads that have been close way before the 1000 post mark), which is WHY mods are telling folks to avoid anything negative in the shipper thread.
     
  6. Timofnine

    Timofnine Vice Admiral Moderator

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    OK, here's what I think. :)

    Heated shipper debates and the intense conflicts that they often cause have always amazed me. I really do not understand how something so small can cause so much trouble. Yes it's fine to support your favourite characters and speculate on their current/future development, but when conflicting views and idea's cause friction and petty arguing it's just plain silly and unnecessary. I mean, whets the point? One thing I've noticed that 'shipper wars' do is take perfectly good posters and tip them over the edge. :(

    As Top41 has already said, as strong as the passion that you may have for them is, the characters of Enterprise are all fictional, developed maybe somewhat erratically, for our enjoyment and entertainment. If the path that a fictional character is following is creating so much upset then there is no point dwelling on 'fan fiction' possibilities that could have been if your going to do so bitterly. Fine, its OK to debate how you think T'Pol's character may evolve in the future, about relationship possibilities and romantic choices, but remember that this is all speculation on your part and though that speculation should be respected it most certainly is not fact until (and if) it appears on screen. People need to stop treating their views as the only side of the story and flaming or trolling people with differing opinions. Strong non canon views that people talk about as canon often come across as trolling though this may not be the intention, especially if the opinions are treated as fact - what the other side need to do is argue the points these people make, and not the person themselves. If somebody is taking an argument too far then it is the moderators job to talk to them and tell them to back off. It would help us a lot more if people used the notify Mod button more instead of trying to deal with situations themselves, often with aggression, resulting in both sides getting a warning.

    At the end of the day, we are not discussing politics or religion here, we are all supposed to be enjoying ourselves whilst having fun debates and discussions about Enterprise. We are all here because we have one thing in common, our love of Star Trek. We are not opposing sides at a soccer tournament. Just remember to treat each other with a bit of respect and courtesy. This place would be pretty boring if everybody had the same opinions and agreed on everything, but there is no need to do so with rudeness. IDIC.

    I know that this post may sound like I'm labelling you all with the same stick, but don't get me wrong; there are *a lot*of good posters here, more so then the minority of fans who don't know how to argue points without getting personal or aggressive. These posters I want to thank for helping to make this place the pleasant place that it should, and often is for everyone.

    My conclusions:

    • Shipper debates should be kept to dedicated threads and people should try to respect the fact that people don't want the discussions overtaking the board.
    • Shipper debates should be kept civil with respect given to all taking part, no matter what their opinions.
    • People should not take negative comments towards their 'ship' personal - comments are aimed at fictional characters, not posters here.
    • If people develop personal problems due to their opinions conflicting with those of others and can't sort them out, take your issues away from this board, perhaps to email, instant messanger or one of the dedicated shipper forums at another board.
    • People should learn to use the Notify Mod button rather then respond in kind to flames or trolling, though in saying this people should also learn not to go pressing the button willy nilly just because they disagree with what somebody has said.
    • To those who do take part in shipper debates with all good intentions - lets hope the standards that you all set are followed by others in the future. Thank you.
    :)

    Your other friendly Enterprise Mod, Timofnine. :)
     
  7. Htown

    Htown Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    No it's not. It's exactly the same.

    A thread started by T/T fans to discuss T/T should be no more open or closed to people who want to criticize that relationship than a thread started by Enterprise fans to discuss Enterprise should be open or closed to people wanting to criticize Enterprise. It's EXACTLY the same thing.

    Seriously, how many times has someone posted a non-shipping Enterprise thread and said "this is just for the fans, don't criticize", and how many times has that actually been backed up by the mods?
     
  8. Top41

    Top41 Vice Admiral Moderator

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    ^It's not so much that people aren't allowed to go into criticize the pairing being discussed, it's just that it's not on topic to bring in the other pairing. A T/T'P thread is started to talk about the T/T'P relationship, not to debate endlessly which is better, the T/T'P relationship or the A/T'P one. It's more a matter of being off topic than it is of criticism not being allowed in the thread. People are of course allowed to come into the thread an express their opinions on that relationship, good or bad, so long as it is on topic. But to drag the thread off topic into another T/T'P vs. A/T'P debate isn't okay. (The same is obviously true for the A/T'P threads, which are created to discuss the A/T'P relationship). Hope that clarifies.
     
  9. Top41

    Top41 Vice Admiral Moderator

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    All shipper/character rage threads are being closed today. Please see this thread for an explanation.

    CLOSED.
     
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