SHATNERVERSE CANNON???

[bionicbob]

Hi, long time reader, first time poster!

I have read all the Shatner Kirk Return novels and greatly enjoyed them. I have only recently started reading the regular Trek Expanded Universe novels again after an absence of many years.

One of the things that attracted me to the current run of novels are the relaunch storylines, along with the very strong continuity being built between them all (something sorely missing back when I use to read them as a kid).

So my question is (and maybe Chris or Keith would be the best to answer) are the SHATNERVERSE novels considered cannon in the Trek Novel Expanded Universe? And if not, WHY NOT?

Also, if not, could this mean a future writer could still bring Kirk back again as part of new storyline? Or was Kirk's return part of a one time deal for Shatner alone to explore?

Personally I would love to see more of Kirk in newly relaunched Trek novel universe.

 

[Defcon]

First of all no book is canon (one n ).

Secondly, the Shatnerverse novels more or less exist outside the "normal" book continuity. They stay consistent for many aspects, but all the other novels set post Generations don't have Kirk in them, so you won't see the resurrected Kirk anywhere outside Shatner's books.

 

[Jaron]

Who told you about my ultimate weapon, the Shatnerverse Cannon? The plans were supposed to be top secret!

On a more informative note, here is an excerpt from the Star Trek Books FAQ located at the top of this forum:

Q. What is the Shatnerverse?
A. In order to prevent confusion, those novels written in collaboration between the Reeves-Stevens and William Shatner (which depict Kirk alive following his death in Generations) have been set aside in their own continuity. This way, casual references to Kirk being alive will not slip into other books and confuse the poor readers. However, this has not stopped the Shatnerverse books from referencing other works, including Ship of the Line and The Dominion War Tetralogy.

 

[bionicbob]

First of all no book is canon (one n ).

Secondly, the Shatnerverse novels more or less exist outside the "normal" book continuity. They stay consistent for many aspects, but all the other novels set post Generations don't have Kirk in them, so you won't see the resurrected Kirk anywhere outside Shatner's books.

Oh I completely understand that ALL TREK NOVELS are not official cannon. If it is not on the screen, it does not exist.

I was simply curious if it was cannon within the sphere of the other Trek Novels. As I said before, one of the things I think is wonderfully brilliant of the Trek NOVELS of recent years, is the greater focus on continuity between the various novel series and greater character development that never happened on the screen (ie.Picard/Crusher finally together, Riker's Titan, DS9 season 8 etc.)

So it makes me ask why couldn't Shatner's series be incorporated into this new BOOK continuity? Or atleast bring Kirk back in some other fashion?

I am really curious what the editorial policy is regarding KIRK?

 

[Defcon]

I am really curious what the editorial policy is regarding KIRK?

As I said above the current editorial policy is to ignore the resurrection of Kirk outside the Shatnerverse novels.

 

[Thrawn]

1) Canon. One n. Not cannon.

2) "Canon" is defined as the official body of works in a franchise. There is no "canon within the sphere of the other Trek novels". Canon and continuity are different things. No book is canon, by any definition.

3) That said, now that there are no shows on the air, the books are making a general effort to stick together in terms of continuity. There have been a couple of exceptions to this rule, however. David R. George III's Crucible trilogy is inconsistent with many of the previously published TOS novels, as the decision was made for it to be a celebration of the TV series period, and so it is only consistent with the aired show.

The other exception is the Shatnerverse. No references are made in any other novels to the Shatnerverse (well, there probably are references somewhere, but as a general policy, it's ignored.) By the same token, Kirk won't be brought back in the rest of the novels either; that's a story that the Shatnerverse is telling, and no one else.

4) If you want it to be integrated into the ongoing book continuity, you can feel free to do it inside your own head. Many people have found ways to mentally incorporate the Shatnerverse without any continuity problems. The decision to ignore them in the rest of the universe was not to spurn the Shatner novels or anything like that, it was just to avoid confusion. If you aren't confused, feel free to imagine everything coexisting peacefully.

 

[bionicbob]

Who told you about my ultimate weapon, the Shatnerverse Cannon? The plans were supposed to be top secret!

On a more informative note, here is an excerpt from the Star Trek Books FAQ located at the top of this forum:

Q. What is the Shatnerverse?
A. In order to prevent confusion, those novels written in collaboration between the Reeves-Stevens and William Shatner (which depict Kirk alive following his death in Generations) have been set aside in their own continuity. This way, casual references to Kirk being alive will not slip into other books and confuse the poor readers. However, this has not stopped the Shatnerverse books from referencing other works, including Ship of the Line and The Dominion War Tetralogy.

Thanks Jaron!

Though I am still curious what Simon & Schuster's (and Paramount) editorial policy for Trek writers is regarding the character of Captain Kirk. Is he dead DEAD? Or is there window to bring him back if the story is right?

 

[Dayton Ward]

^ Outside of the Shatner/Reeves-Stevens novels, Kirk is considered dead after the events of Generations.

 

[Deano2099]

So it makes me ask why couldn't Shatner's series be incorporated into this new BOOK continuity?

The most obvious explanation is that Shatner isn't interested in limiting his work to the current novel continuity, as it would have to work both ways.

And there's probably no reason Kirk couldn't be bought back in the novels just as any dead character could feasibly be resurrected, but that probably won't be done as it's been done already with the Shatner books so would be re-treading old ground.

 

[Christopher]

One more point: there is no "Star Trek Expanded Universe." "Expanded Universe" is a term specific to Star Wars tie-in fiction, which is subject to a different set of rules of continuity than ST tie-in fiction. In the SW EU, all tie-in works are mandated to treat every other tie-in work ever as part of the same continuity, even when they contradict each other. In ST tie-in fiction, continuity is an option that authors and editors may choose to employ or not employ depending on the project. Most of the books published in the 2000s share a common continuity, but not all of them do, and other tie-ins such as comic books are not necessarily consistent with the novels, but they can be if the authors and editors choose.

 

[Therin of Andor]

And there's probably no reason Kirk couldn't be bought back in the novels just as any dead character could feasibly be resurrected, but that probably won't be done as it's been done already with the Shatner books so would be re-treading old ground.

Both "Engines of Destiny" and "Crucible: Kirk" toy with the "Is Kirk really dead if he's in the Nexus?" idea, independent of the Shatnerverse.

 

[jbrinegar]

I think the SHATNERVERSE CANNON fires giant conventional cannon balls. But rumor is starfleet is working on coverting the SHATNERVERSE CANNON to a SHATNERVERSE PHASER-CANNON since cannon balls have become very scarce in the 24th century. The remaining SHATNERVERSE CANNONs that cannot be upgraded will be used by this guy:

http://www.thehumanmarvels.com/uploaded_images/cannonball-richards-765070.jpg

 

[Rush Limborg]

This is probably the millionth time someone asked if books are canon.

Isn't there some way to prevent this from happening again? It usually leads to a heck of a lot of arguments (which often get personal) --and even more headaches. This time we got lucky, but still....

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Well, we have an FAQ for a reason, but no one ever reads it.

 

[Garrovick]

This is probably the millionth time someone asked if books are canon.

Isn't there some way to prevent this from happening again? It usually leads to a heck of a lot of arguments (which often get personal) --and even more headaches. This time we got lucky, but still....

Doesn't bother me, new people always have questions.

Look at the series forums, many new fans ask questions that were answered 40 years ago.

Let them have their turn.

Besides even some of us old fogies, from way back in the 60s when we watched TOS first run, just count books as more adventures and can be considered "Canon in our minds"!

 

[JAG]

It does not bother me either if people ask the question.

 

[Deano2099]

Plus our original poster wasn't asking that question. Yes, non of the books are canon and he used that word but it's obvious his intent was to ask if the Shatnerverse books were consistent with the other Trek books.
I know terms like 'canon' and 'expanded universe' have specific meanings and were probably the wrong terms to use but we all understood the question so the lecturing isn't really needed.

Plus I think the question of if the regular Trek-lit verse would ever contemplate resurrecting Kirk is an interesting one.

 

[Jaron]

I think the SHATNERVERSE CANNON fires giant conventional cannon balls. But rumor is starfleet is working on coverting the SHATNERVERSE CANNON to a SHATNERVERSE PHASER-CANNON since cannon balls have become very scarce in the 24th century. The remaining SHATNERVERSE CANNONs that cannot be upgraded will be used by this guy:

http://www.thehumanmarvels.com/uploaded_images/cannonball-richards-765070.jpg

Actually, I'm pretty sure the SHATNERVERSE CANNON uses a powerful laser to engrave the text of The Return on the moon, which, due to an obscure memo at Paramount, would render it canon.

 

[Turtletrekker]

^Actually Shatner just tried to sign his name on the moon, but was stopped after only writing out "Sha--".

* Hopes somebody gets the semi-obscure reference...*

 

[Christopher]

^^And then a year later, a giant Leonard Nimoy came along and took a bite out of the Moon?

(Yes, I got the reference. Spoon!)