Shatnertage's Mostly-1st-Time Watch Thread

[Quinton O'Connor]

I'm glad you enjoyed it. Like I said earlier it's right in the middle for me. Some of the stuff with Miles and Keiko in particular is really annoying (and I'm not sure about the vomit... great question though) and I agree with you that Keiko can be much worse than Lwaxana.

Even when the elder Troi was at her worst there was always the silver lining that I'd get to see Patrick Stewart playing off of Majel Roddenberry in an angsty, evasive fashion -- sure, Colm Meaney does it too but it's not as funny to me because I think that somehow we're expected to feel sympathetic toward Keiko. And I just... rarely do.

Now, that isn't to say I hate her character. The actress does a good job with what she has and sometimes, every so often, Keiko O'Brien really comes through for me and I enjoy her material. But it's pretty rare. I feel comfortable saying that overall she's probably my least favorite permanent/recurring character in the series.

The bit at the end with Sisko, Dax and Bariel is amazing. I hold nothing back on that one -- I love it to pieces. So ridiculous, so incredulous, so not the sort of thing I'd want the show to be even 1% of the time. But this was the best episode for it to happen and it delivered.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

The difference to me is that Lwaxana (somehow, despite her "empathy") is oblivious and well-meaning. Keiko is just mean-spirited.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Yeah, I agree. Pretty confounded as to how we're supposed to be sympathetic.

 

[Sykonee]

Count me in for the "Fascination Are Goods!" crowd. I liken it to a better offering of comedy fanfiction.

Plus, I always crack up when Jake says:
"I love you, Nerys. Wanna go out with me?"

Loften says each line like he's in two totally different movies.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Oh my god, I know what you mean Sykonee. Whether intentional or not the delivery there is epic.

 

[Admiral Shran]

Count me as one who doesn't get all the Keiko hate.

Yeah, she can be annoying at times, but I wouldn't call her mean-spirited. She's in a situation she clearly doesn't want to be in and is trying to make the best of it, but that doesn't mean she should just suck it up and bear it without complaint.

 

[Thestral]

I enjoyed Fascination for what it is, so glad you liked it!

Also count me in with the "not a Keiko hater" crowd. Didn't often find her annoying (though occasionally) and definitely not mean-spirited.

 

[Eyes]

Count me in for the "Fascination Are Goods!" crowd. I liken it to a better offering of comedy fanfiction.

Plus, I always crack up when Jake says:
"I love you, Nerys. Wanna go out with me?"

Loften says each line like he's in two totally different movies.

That line absolutely MADE the episode for me. Up until then, I thought it was ok, a little bit off the wall, but nothing great. Then, Lofton said that line and I just felt like I was just going to sit back and enjoy the episode for whatever it turned out to be. Which was amazingly fun.

 

[Shatnertage]

Yes, as soon as he said that, I knew it was going to be a fun ride.

No one in my household is a big Keiko fan--she's easily the least popular regular or recurring character in the show for us.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Count me as one who doesn't get all the Keiko hate.

Yeah, she can be annoying at times, but I wouldn't call her mean-spirited. She's in a situation she clearly doesn't want to be in and is trying to make the best of it, but that doesn't mean she should just suck it up and bear it without complaint.

Sorry, but she (or any man or woman considering marrying a military person) should've known the risks of becoming a military spouse. It's not like O'Brien joined up after she got married; she knew damn well what she was getting into. It is a fact of military life that sometimes you get less-desirable or even flat-out undesirable postings. If you can't handle that, you shouldn't join the military or marry a person who is serving.

 

[Sykonee]

It should be noted that Shatnertage has finally left the treacherous waters known as Early DS9, surviving where many would-be Watch Threads had perished before this point.

Though there are still a few difficult spots to navigate through in this portion of the sea (S3), he has also seen glimpses of what lies in greater quantities beyond the horizon: treasures, new discoveries, and mermaids! (affix your own DS9 Episode links to these analogies )

The sailing grows steadier from here on out...

 

[Admiral Shran]

Count me as one who doesn't get all the Keiko hate.

Yeah, she can be annoying at times, but I wouldn't call her mean-spirited. She's in a situation she clearly doesn't want to be in and is trying to make the best of it, but that doesn't mean she should just suck it up and bear it without complaint.

Sorry, but she (or any man or woman considering marrying a military person) should've known the risks of becoming a military spouse. It's not like O'Brien joined up after she got married; she knew damn well what she was getting into. It is a fact of military life that sometimes you get less-desirable or even flat-out undesirable postings. If you can't handle that, you shouldn't join the military or marry a person who is serving.

True, and I'm not saying that she doesn't really push that envelope, especially in her early appearances. But I think that her being upset with the situation adds to the character, not detracts from it. She's something a little different in Trek - someone who doesn't toe the Starfleet line. I like that. It also makes her marriage to Miles all the more interesting. I'd find it really boring if it was simply smooth sailing all the time for them with Keiko constantly agreeing with whatever Miles wanted to do with their lives.

Now again, she can be annoying. Those early appearances just make me want to say "Damn woman, at least give it some time." But, IMO, she grew into a more likeable character.

 

[Athena28]

Well, in view of those last few posts, I'll be a little...

"Defiant"

and say, "Yeah, what was going on with that?"

I didn't find anything on MA that explains it, but I'm sure someone here will have an answer...

Loved Tom. Wish he'd made more appearances.

 

[Shatnertage]

I am definitely feeling that the bad episodes are not...

"Past Tense, Part I"

This episode was a bore. A colossal bore. Some scenes involved us being bored by technobabble on the Defiant. Others involved being bored by (high school) freshman-level social commentary. I'll definitely be glad when the credits roll on part II of this one.

I generally don't like PreachyTrek. Usually, what they're banging us over the head with is already obvious to most of the audience. I know this has always been a part of Trek, even before the subtle racial commentary of "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield."

I get the point. Homelessness is bad. But having said that, what else does the episode have to offer?

On the positive side, Dax, Sisko, and Bashir get out of their uniforms. I've got to say that Bashir got the coolest sweater ever to wear--I wish I could buy one of those, even though I don't look good in horizontal stripes. It's that nice a sweater. And Jadzia got some nice clothes to wear and a hairstyle that was, for maybe the second time in the show's history, flattering.

Funny that, for less than $300, I've got a nicer computer than Chris Brynner. It's also funny that we're more than halfway to 2024.

I get that everyone on the show was excited about getting to make a big statement about social justice. But I just think that the show works better when it's working on a more personal level. I'll take "Duet" any day over this episode, because "Duet" doesn't have slabs of position-paper exposition woven into the script.

For what it's worth, I didn't like VOY: "Future's End" either.

I'm happy to talk about this more--I have a feeling that other folks will like this one, and I'd like to see what I'm missing.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

I'll drum up a more insightful post later. For now I'll simply say this -- I was literally planning on asking if you what your thoughts were for VOY's "Future's End" but you preempted me.

 

[Sykonee]

I'm happy to talk about this more--I have a feeling that other folks will like this one, and I'd like to see what I'm missing.

To be fair, this is one of those episodes that works better in hindsight. Some lines of dialog become far more poignant after watching the series as a whole.

Beyond that... well, I think folks'll hold off on commenting further until after Part 2 passes.

 

[Shatnertage]

I just finished watching it, but don't have time to write about it in detail (deadline surfing tonight). All I can say is, it actually got worse.

IMHO, of course.

 

[Thestral]

Oh man, that's too bad. I've never liked Past Tense that much, but it was mostly enjoyable. Looking back on it after seeing more of the show is good too.

You might be interested to know (you might already know) that while filming this episode, the LA Mayor proposed something remarkably similar to Sanctuary Districts.

Didn't really care for Jadzia's look in this one, tbh... looked too obviously costumey.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Yeah, too bad, indeed. But hey, IDIC. (That just never gets old when applied to a Trek forum, I guess.)

 

[Admiral Shran]

I'll save my full thoughts until I've read your review of Part II. But I will say that I tend to see these episodes as somewhat average. They're not bad, but not great either. And, my thoughts might be a little different from those of most people.