Based on his latter interviews I think Horner never really respected Trek fully, but saw it as merely a learning experience and stepping-stone, like the material was somehow beneath him. Goldsmith I think began to see his music's relationship to Trek as equivalent to Williams with Star Wars.
Shatner, Frakes and Goldsmith
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Based on his latter interviews I think Horner never really respected Trek fully, but saw it as merely a learning experience and stepping-stone, like the material was somehow beneath him. Goldsmith I think began to see his music's relationship to Trek as equivalent to Williams with Star Wars.
So you didn't like his score?
I agree by the way. It's terrible, lightweight, and trite. Since TVH was the end of a trilogy Horner should have composed the music.
TVH is really loosely connected to the previous two films. Its comedic tone needed a different theme from Horner's Horatio Hornblower style score. Not sure whether Horner would have been able to provide something funny-sounding. I don't think the Christmas Movie theme we got in Voyage Home worked, but a lot of the whimsical incidental music was appropriate.
Not quite as blatant as the '78 Rings and TVH, but Horner also frequently recycles his own scores (from Battle Beyond the Stars to TWOK etc.).
http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/14862-the-official-james-horner-self-plagiarism-list/
http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/14862-the-official-james-horner-self-plagiarism-list/
Generic?
Re "The Planets Suite": Cliff Eidelman's score for ST VI is a deliberate homage to that music. Previously, Eidelman had been Compilation Producer for the Trek movie soundtrack anniversary collection, "The Astral Symphony".
Yeah I found it to be good, but forgettable compared to TMP and horner's scores, which were unmistakably 'trek' - this sounds like it could be from any 90's action film - in my opinion of course.
You won't mince words, but you'll use the same one tediously and repetitively. And your post is awfully unkind to someone who never did anything to you except make some music you didn't like and critiqued some music you did.
And, fine, you don't like it, but lay some of that blame at the feet of Nimoy and Bennett for hiring a known quantity.
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Every note?
Not a single one you thought was okay?
I'm quite fond of the 576th one, think it was an F sharp.
I really like Horner's scores for TWOK and TSFS, but I'm not sure he could have done the lighter music required for TVH and using the same type of music he used for the first two entries may have been a mistake. Though I'm not really sure who would have been well-suited to TVH.
I'm kind of okay with Rosenman's more comedic beats for TVH, it's the rest of the music that is a bit meh for me. IIRC his score for Fantastic Voyage holds up pretty well, which makes me think he may have just been a poor choice for TVH.
As for Goldsmith, I was disapponted by the reuse of TMP music for TNG, and more disappointed that the overture was constantly reused for the TNG films.
I like the music for TUC well enough, though I'm not a huge fan of the "celebratory" music that's especially used at the end of the film. I -love- the main title music, finding it chilling and appropriate for the ideas that the film presents early on.
I'm kind of okay with Rosenman's more comedic beats for TVH, it's the rest of the music that is a bit meh for me. IIRC his score for Fantastic Voyage holds up pretty well, which makes me think he may have just been a poor choice for TVH.
As for Goldsmith, I was disapponted by the reuse of TMP music for TNG, and more disappointed that the overture was constantly reused for the TNG films.
I like the music for TUC well enough, though I'm not a huge fan of the "celebratory" music that's especially used at the end of the film. I -love- the main title music, finding it chilling and appropriate for the ideas that the film presents early on.
Speaking of TVH, it's a shame Nimoy didn't use the TOS theme arrangment Rosenman composed for the film.
Though I really do enjoy Nic Raine's arrangment of the theme for The Voyage Home.
Though I really do enjoy Nic Raine's arrangment of the theme for The Voyage Home.
Now Defiler-Of-Redshirts has to hate the entire TOS theme
XD
Setting aside Horner's schedule for 1986, which included Aliens (which recycled some of his Trek material and was a bad experience for both him and James Cameron due to the way Cameron worked) and An American Tale, so he was probably booked, Horner didn't have a lot of comedy experience until that year. I think he would have been able to handle the comedy elements of Voyage Home fine.
The rework of Goldsmith's TMP title for TNG works for me, but in retrospect I think I would have preferred Dennis McCarthy's unused title theme.
Its a pity McCarthy didn't inject his Picard theme into Generations. Its was a memorable TNG signature before the producers banned him from using it.
IMHO, it was lazy and literal for Williams to raid The Planets for Star Wars and just as lazy for it to be raided for Star Trek VI. It reeks of "Hmm... I have to make sci-fi music. I guess I better go find some old classical music that is about spacey stuff. Ah, this thing is called The Planets. That'll do."
Now Defiler-Of-Redshirts has to hate the entire TOS theme
WRONG! Star Trek IV was the only Trek music that Rosenman idiot ever wrote! He was never involved in any other incarnation of Trek music besides TVH (and thank god for that), do you get it? Show me a Rosenman piece of musical trash that you could compare to Jerry Goldsmith's musical thunderstorms. Any of their scores, in any movies. Not one note that musical-short-bus Rosenman ever composed can measure up to one note Jerry ever composed. End of discussion.
No, it's probably more like, I love this classical music and can imagine it combined with amazing SF images. (That was my own reaction to "The Planets" suite as a kid in the 60s and as a teen in the 70s.)
Williams' Star Wars score has way more influences than Holtz. There's Stravinsky (lots of Tatooine stuff), Eric Korngold, Wagner, etc. Here's an article which points out many. (LINK)
And any opinion so extreme and obdurate that it dismisses every note of works like East of Eden and Rebel Without a Cause is not worth wasting any further effort on.
And any opinion so extreme and obdurate that it dismisses every note of works like East of Eden and Rebel Without a Cause is not worth wasting any further effort on.
I've rewatched Star Trek V, Star Trek: First Contact, and Star Trek: Insurrection recently and Goldsmith's work is perfect for those films. His music for TMP was an epic tour de force but I enjoyed his work on those later films, especially First Contact. I may subject myself to a Nemesis rewatch and from what I remember he borrows a lot more from TMP than he did for his last three Star Trek scores.
Not to go off on a tangent but it baffles me why Rick Berman had the wisdom to hire Goldsmith for his TNG films but he fired Ron Jones who composed such similar work for the series.
Not to go off on a tangent but it baffles me why Rick Berman had the wisdom to hire Goldsmith for his TNG films but he fired Ron Jones who composed such similar work for the series.
Horner was also pretty busy. He did 5 movies that year.
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