shared universe, crossovers and easter eggs

[Hando]

Using Wold Newton as a guide, it appears that Greg Cox made several nods to spy fiction of that era.

Also there have been comic crossovers with X-Men, Legion of Superheroes, Dr. Who, Infection...

Now, is there a possibility that Star Trek actually shares the universe with these?

The comic ones can be explained away as a crossover between parallel universes, but what about series like The Avengers, Man from UNCLE, Pretender, ...

Could these also have happened on Star Trek's Earth? Or were they only easter eggs, showing that something dis happen, but not necessarily what we have seen on screen?


By the way what other fictional works could have happened in Star Trek? Well we can say with a 99.9999% definitiveness that StarGate (at least not the TV series, the Movie could have happened), Blade Runner, Alien+Predator could not have happened.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Marvel comics exist in Trek's universe - as comics (Starfleet Academy), films (presumably) and (in early New Frontier's) holodeck programs. IIRC, the Trident's original security officer....

Spoiler: spoiler

... is killed by Thor's hammer when stupidly playing Avengers with the safeties turned off

 

[Christopher]

The problem with science fiction is that each series tends to paint the history, technology, geography, and physics of the universe in a different way, so it's rare to find two SF franchises that can cross over. The only non-Trek works that I consider to be part of the Trek universe are other Roddenberry pilots -- The Questor Tapes (which a few Trek novels have very subtly hinted might be part of the universe) and Genesis II/Planet Earth (which I consider to be the alternate timeline that would've resulted if Gary Seven hadn't intervened in Earth history, as discussed here).

Pretty much anything that shows Earth making contact with aliens before 2063 is out, so no Alien Nation or V. No The 4400 or Alphas, since there are very few superpowered humans in the Trek universe (basically just the occasional esper) and since time travel (a big deal in The 4400) is initially seen as only a theoretical possibility in Trek's era.

So yeah, we'd probably be dealing with SF-lite shows like The Man from UNCLE. In the course of watching it on DVD, I've wondered if it could be considered part of the Trekverse, but I think it's a little too goofy, and it gets rather campy later on. The Avengers (the '60s spy show, of course) also got rather comical and fanciful at times.

The Six Million Dollar Man and The Bionic Woman are interesting candidates, since they show a rather more advanced space program in the '70s than we had in real life, which is consistent with TOS's portrayal of human spaceflight. But then, what happens to that nifty bionics technology? Is it lost in the Eugenics Wars or WWIII? And in that case, can you count the '90s reunion movies?

 

[Greg Cox]

The only thing we know for sure is that Star Trek takes place in the same universe as "Here Comes The Brides."

 

[E-DUB]

I seem to remember a reference in one of Cox's "Khan" books to a character who could have been Jamie Summers.

 

[Hando]

The problem with science fiction is that each series tends to paint the history, technology, geography, and physics of the universe in a different way, so it's rare to find two SF franchises that can cross over. The only non-Trek works that I consider to be part of the Trek universe are other Roddenberry pilots -- The Questor Tapes (which a few Trek novels have very subtly hinted might be part of the universe) and Genesis II/Planet Earth (which I consider to be the alternate timeline that would've resulted if Gary Seven hadn't intervened in Earth history, as discussed here).

A good approach. But then what happened to Hunt in the regular timeline? Was he reanimated earlier (after all Star Trek's cryogenics works) or did they forgot about him and he is still there.

Pretty much anything that shows Earth making contact with aliens before 2063 is out, so no Alien Nation or V. No The 4400 or Alphas, since there are very few superpowered humans in the Trek universe (basically just the occasional esper) and since time travel (a big deal in The 4400) is initially seen as only a theoretical possibility in Trek's era.

True, although I would skip on The 4400 just from the story alone, after all how many people actually know that it is the case of time travel. By itself Alphas could happen in a timeline with later Eugenic Wars, placed in the 2010s. But as Alphas supposedly share the universe with Eureka and Warehouse 13, it ought to be out by default.

So yeah, we'd probably be dealing with SF-lite shows like The Man from UNCLE. In the course of watching it on DVD, I've wondered if it could be considered part of the Trekverse, but I think it's a little too goofy, and it gets rather campy later on. The Avengers (the '60s spy show, of course) also got rather comical and fanciful at times.

So it is more likely that these people and organisations were active, but some events either did not happen or at least not as depicted...

The Six Million Dollar Man and The Bionic Woman are interesting candidates, since they show a rather more advanced space program in the '70s than we had in real life, which is consistent with TOS's portrayal of human spaceflight. But then, what happens to that nifty bionics technology? Is it lost in the Eugenics Wars or WWIII? And in that case, can you count the '90s reunion movies?

Given the cost do you wonder? Even in "Bionic-land" in the 90s there was only a handful of Bionic people, so ...



And all those acronyms (OSI, M9, UNCLE...) could very well make up the core from which Section 31 was built.

The only thing we know for sure is that Star Trek takes place in the same universe as "Here Comes The Brides."

Oh, please.

 

[Relayer1]

There would appear to be a very good chance that one of J T Kirk's ancestors was a Sergeant in the LCPD, working with a colleague who rather surprisingly seems to have been the physical model for the holographic Vic Fontaine...

 

[Christopher]

The problem with science fiction is that each series tends to paint the history, technology, geography, and physics of the universe in a different way, so it's rare to find two SF franchises that can cross over. The only non-Trek works that I consider to be part of the Trek universe are other Roddenberry pilots -- The Questor Tapes (which a few Trek novels have very subtly hinted might be part of the universe) and Genesis II/Planet Earth (which I consider to be the alternate timeline that would've resulted if Gary Seven hadn't intervened in Earth history, as discussed here).

A good approach. But then what happened to Hunt in the regular timeline? Was he reanimated earlier (after all Star Trek's cryogenics works) or did they forgot about him and he is still there.

In the Trek timeline, Gary Seven prevented the orbital-nukes buildup, so nuclear tensions wouldn't have been as extreme in the late '70s when Genesis II begins. Thus, the subshuttle network and underground bunkers wouldn't have been built, and Dylan Hunt's cryogenic experiments would probably have happened elsewhere, so there would've been no cave-in and the experiment would've been completed successfully -- most likely leading to the invention of sleeper-ship technology by the 1990s.

By itself Alphas could happen in a timeline with later Eugenic Wars, placed in the 2010s.

Except the Alphas weren't the result of genetic engineering, but naturally occurring variations that had been cropping up for centuries without being acknowledged. Since there aren't a bunch of Alphas running around in the Trek future, they don't go together.

Besides, it's probably hard to find a modern SFTV series that doesn't have characters making references to Star Trek as a fictional series at some point. I don't recall if there were any in Alphas, but I'd be surprised if there weren't.

But as Alphas supposedly share the universe with Eureka and Warehouse 13, it ought to be out by default.

I never bought that, since those two shows are in much more fanciful universes than Alphas. And Lindsay Wagner's Alphas appearance as Dr. Calder took care to avoid any overt references to Eureka, Warehouse 13, or any concepts and characters from those shows. So I prefer to treat her as a separate, coincidentally identical Dr. Vanessa Calder in a separate fictional reality.

The Six Million Dollar Man and The Bionic Woman are interesting candidates, since they show a rather more advanced space program in the '70s than we had in real life, which is consistent with TOS's portrayal of human spaceflight. But then, what happens to that nifty bionics technology? Is it lost in the Eugenics Wars or WWIII? And in that case, can you count the '90s reunion movies?

Given the cost do you wonder? Even in "Bionic-land" in the 90s there was only a handful of Bionic people, so ...

New technologies are always expensive to start with, but the cost tends to go down (at least in proportion to inflation) as the technology matures.

 

[Darth Duck]

Given how wonky and weird the chronology for FX's Archer is, Cap'n Jonathan might not have been the only member of his family caught in in the Temporal Cold War (The Soviet Union and jokes about Dane Cook in the same episode? Blame Future Guy)

 

[Hando]

Except the Alphas weren't the result of genetic engineering, but naturally occurring variations that had been cropping up for centuries without being acknowledged. Since there aren't a bunch of Alphas running around in the Trek future, they don't go together.

Hm, I wonder. How do we know that there are none? Around 0.02%...
Given the anti-Augment attitudes, I would expect that any uberhuman would likely try to hide his or hers abilities.

We also do not know the source of superhuman abilities of Star Trek's humans - that we kn ow of like immortality or telepathy (Sky Peole, "Ancient Astronauts", Augmented ancestor, Progenitor design...).

Besides, it's probably hard to find a modern SFTV series that doesn't have characters making references to Star Trek as a fictional series at some point. I don't recall if there were any in Alphas, but I'd be surprised if there weren't.

Who notices? The only one I recall was the First StarGate time travel episode, and I seem to recall something in Fringe, but that is all. By now it is part of the culture. So we may see it as a production mistake, or just plainly ignore - if it is overt. After all we ignore LCARS jokes.

I never bought that, since those two shows are in much more fanciful universes than Alphas. And Lindsay Wagner's Alphas appearance as Dr. Calder took care to avoid any overt references to Eureka, Warehouse 13, or any concepts and characters from those shows. So I prefer to treat her as a separate, coincidentally identical Dr. Vanessa Calder in a separate fictional reality.

To tell the truth, I watched both Alphas and Warehouse 13 only once, so I got this second-hand and still am not sure who she is - I just did not make the connection.
And your approach is quite rational, I use it too (think Ally McBeal/Practice or the Chicago Hope/Picket Fences/X-files... mess).

The Six Million Dollar Man and The Bionic Woman are interesting candidates, since they show a rather more advanced space program in the '70s than we had in real life, which is consistent with TOS's portrayal of human spaceflight. But then, what happens to that nifty bionics technology? Is it lost in the Eugenics Wars or WWIII? And in that case, can you count the '90s reunion movies?

Given the cost do you wonder? Even in "Bionic-land" in the 90s there was only a handful of Bionic people, so ...

New technologies are always expensive to start with, but the cost tends to go down (at least in proportion to inflation) as the technology matures.[/QUOTE]

So in the 90s there would be the 15 million dollar man? I wonder if that is cost effective.
Also on the other hand given the fear and hate of Augments, in the after Eugenic Wars era they may abandon bionics. Both genetic engineering and bionics create superhuman abilities, so thats why.

Another anti Bionic/Star Trek argument could be the Alien family from Andromeda. Radioactive and Human-anti-resistant.

Although this could be due to the galactic barrier, and we are still 300 years before the Kelvan invasion... But why on Earth did they crash-landed exactly on Earth?

The other 2 alien races I could live with.

 

[Christopher]

^I'm afraid I don't remember enough from the bionic shows to know what you're referring to. But Andromeda is a very big galaxy, estimated to have more than twice as many stars as our own. It probably contains many, many separate civilizations.

 

[Hando]

^I'm afraid I don't remember enough from the bionic shows to know what you're referring to. But Andromeda is a very big galaxy, estimated to have more than twice as many stars as our own. It probably contains many, many separate civilizations.

In this one:Straight On 'Til Morning.

And my problem is not that they are from the Andromeda Galaxy, but that they landed on Earth of all things. Think this Earth is the center of the universe.

It is not such a problem.

Also we know that there was an expedition from Andromeda some time ago: remember the Mudd androids.

 

[Greg Cox]

I seem to remember a reference in one of Cox's "Khan" books to a character who could have been Jamie Summers.

[Stares at the ceiling and whistles innocently.]

As for shows that have referenced Trek as a TV show . . . off the top of my head, I can think of LOST, WAREHOUSE 13, FARSCAPE, and, er, BIG BANG THEORY.

And I'd be seriously surprised if neither CASTLE or BUFFY ever referenced Trek, as the pop-culture references fly fast and furious on those shows.

 

[Relayer1]

I seem to remember a reference in one of Cox's "Khan" books to a character who could have been Jamie Summers.

[Stares at the ceiling and whistles innocently.]

Greg Cox, you're a bad man !

 

[Greg Cox]

I seem to remember a reference in one of Cox's "Khan" books to a character who could have been Jamie Summers.

[Stares at the ceiling and whistles innocently.]

Greg Cox, you're a bad man !

I confess: John Ordover and I had way too much fun sneaking easter eggs into those books.

 

[Nerys Myk]

[Stares at the ceiling and whistles innocently.]

Greg Cox, you're a bad man !

I confess: John Ordover and I had way too much fun sneaking easter eggs into those books.

But Hadji?

 

[Greg Cox]

Greg Cox, you're a bad man !

I confess: John Ordover and I had way too much fun sneaking easter eggs into those books.

But Hadji?

That was Ordover's idea!

 

[Relayer1]

[Stares at the ceiling and whistles innocently.]

Greg Cox, you're a bad man !

I confess: John Ordover and I had way too much fun sneaking easter eggs into those books.

I hope you both feel suitably ashamed now.

 

[Sto-Vo-Kory]

Besides, it's probably hard to find a modern SFTV series that doesn't have characters making references to Star Trek as a fictional series at some point. I don't recall if there were any in Alphas, but I'd be surprised if there weren't.
.

Star Trek is a hard one, because it is so pervasive in pop culture.

I ran into the same problem when trying to define my own personal continuity for the X-Files and which series I could include as sharing that same universe. Lone Gunmen and Millenium were easy no-brainers and Fringe went out of its way to include itself in the X-Files' world, but I really wanted to insert Supernatural into this continuity out of a personal preference on my part. Problem being, in the pilot episode of Supernatural, a couple of extras call the main characters "Mulder and Scully" and over the course of the series, references to Mulder and/or Scully have been rampant.

My go-to fix for this sort of continuity problem is the X-Files episode "Hollywood AD." In this episode, a movie studio makes a film called "The Lazarus Bowl" with Garry Shandling and Tea Leoni playing characters named "Mulder" and "Scully" respectively. From this, I just imagine that the movie became a huge hit in this universe, enough of a hit for people to reference, and I can now include Supernatural and many other shows or movies that name drop Mulder/Scully without much hand waving at all.

Off hand, I can't remember a Trek episode that could explain away in-universe references to "beam me up" or "Vulcan neck grips" in the modern day of the Trekverse. Was there any mention of a "Trek-like" TV show in Greg Cox's Eugenics Wars series?

 

[Greg Cox]

Off hand, I can't remember a Trek episode that could explain away in-universe references to "beam me up" or "Vulcan neck grips" in the modern day of the Trekverse. Was there any mention of a "Trek-like" TV show in Greg Cox's Eugenics Wars series?

Not that I recall, although there were some "Captain Proton" references in the third Khan book.

As I recall, I was sometimes coy and phrased things so that it was ambiguous as to whether, say, Emma Peel was being referenced as a real person or a fictional character on a TV show.