SG-U - Pathogen - (2x04) - (Discuss – Grade | SPOILERS)

[Mr Awe]

SGU isn't perfect. But I can appreciate how it doesn't try to be a clone of the two shows that came before it. Perhaps that will be its undoing but there's nothing wrong in trying to bring a different approach to an established franchise. And frankly I like the acrors and the look of the show. As far as I'm concerned I get more true emotion and human behavior in the episode of "Pathogen" than I got in the entire run of SGA.

I really like what SGU is *trying* to do. And, it has done to some extent. But, it's been hit or miss. An ongoing epic drama that involves interesting characters and events is compelling. But, let's pick this apart and see what has actually happened.

It's got a nice set up, check. Characters, meh, starting to fall apart. Some are interesting (Rush, Telford), but many are not (Young, Chloe, Eli, Wray). There are interesting events going on but it's hit or miss. Sometimes there are interesting developments but sometimes they just mark time and rely on less than compelling characters.

So, as a character show, it fails. And, as a plot driven show, it's hit or miss.

Despite this, I still actually manage to enjoy it. It's got enough to keep it interesting. This is mainly due to the larger plot elements and mysteries, which are interesting. But, for an episode where the plot elements are weak, the characters cannot carry the show. This is what we saw this week.

In the end, SGU is good but not great.

Mr Awe

 

[Starbreaker]

Robert Cooper's next episode that he wrote and directed is coming up on November 16th. I'm looking forward to seeing if he can match the awesomeness of Time.

 

[Star Wolf]

Dull. Boring. Stale.

Both SG1 and Atlantis were adventure stories. Bringing peace to the galaxy. Liberating the weak from oppression. Not only is that not the theme of this show, its not even a part of it. Nor is there any adventure. It's almost entirely relationship drama, which is not scifi. And it's not Stargate.

Oh, God, it sounds like the old complaints about Deep Space Nine during its run.

"In needs to be on a ship"

"the characters are unpleasant and don't like one another"

'Where's the space adventures; where's the planet-of-the-week?"

"Its a soap opera"

"Nothing ever happens!"

"Its NOT Star Trek!"



So many Trek fans did and still do feel that way and yet I'm convinced DS9 was great in part because it went against the grain.

SGU isn't perfect. But I can appreciate how it doesn't try to be a clone of the two shows that came before it. Perhaps that will be its undoing but there's nothing wrong in trying to bring a different approach to an established franchise. And frankly I like the acrors and the look of the show. As far as I'm concerned I get more true emotion and human behavior in the episode of "Pathogen" than I got in the entire run of SGA. But if you feel scifi should only be about mindless weekly adventures with cutesy "likable" characters who always do the right thing and are thin on complexity, then SGA, Eureka and Warehouse Thirteen is definietely for you. Congrats. Your ilk seems to have more numbers. But some of us actually prefer the more "boring" exploration of the human condition.

And how did TPTB change DS9 after Sci Fi Universe's Dazed and Confused year in review cover story. They introduced the Defiant and brought Worf over from TNG. The question is will the Stargate powers have the time to turn Universe into a Stargate show?

 

[The Wormhole]

A pretty dull and predictable by the numbers episode. I knew last time we saw Eli's mother that her next appearance would involve her learning the truth. Rush scapegoating Chloe for what he's doing is hardly surprising. Meanwhile, I don't care for the melodrama between Wray and her girlfriend and the Lucian Alliance storyline seemed added on just to give them something to do this week.

So why exactly is Eli's mother in a military hospital? I know they agreed to provide medical care in exchange for his services, but I figured that meant they'd pay for medical attention she received at a civilian hospital, not that she'd be in an actual military hospital. And it seems rather sloppy that they'd let Eli just walk up to her in someone else's body and say who she is without warning. Something like this, especially with someone who has no prior knowledge of the Stargate should have someone esle on hand to explain it before hand. On the other hand, it's nice to see someone doubting that this is their loved one for once.

Rush's plan doesn't seem to be thought through too far. So blaming Chloe's alien transformation and then pretending to cure her of it gets everyone off his back and Chloe can live in peace for now. But sooner or later, someone's going to notice that Deestiny is still dropping out of FTL out of range of any Stargates and that they're making course changes. And I would imagine when Chloe's transformation progresses to a more noticeble stage, well, you know. Meanwhile, where did Rush find chalk? Did he have a chalk board at Icarus? Did he carry a piece of chalk around with him everywhere he went? Or was that in the emergency supplies in the Icarus gateroom that could not be forgotten under any circumstance like ipod dockstations, body bags, gym clothes and make-up?

Robert Knepper is wasted once again. Despite all the hype of casting him, he only has a relatively small role, with next to no dialogue, and interestingly enough, his most memorable line is one the audience doesn't even hear (whatever it was he said to Dr. Park). And what little he does seems to be generic shifty bastard type stuff. I'm sure that they're building up to giving him something meaty, but at the languid pace this show develops, I don't expect him to have anything significant to do until the finale. Actually, what was really weird was this week the other characters spend more time talking about him than he actually spends on screen.

Finally, enough with the fucking montages. Granted, this week's wasn't so bad since the tune wasn't an emo pop song. But this format for the final scene is getting tired. Especially since every episode this season has basically had the same ending. Everyone moping around Destiny all depressed or thoughtful or whatever emotion they're trying to convey. A love a good montage when used once a year or less, but every fucking week is tiresome.

 

[Yoda]

Boring boring stuff. 2/10

Swappy stones, especially the tedious lesbian couple... mini-montage... the lucian alliance... Rush and his scheming... it was just all boring. "I feel like I'm slipping away bit by bit" was hilariously poorly delivered... I really don't care about the Chloe plot one bit... none of the 'mysteries' has really grabbed me.

Last week wasn't bad... but this was just tedious.

 

[Listener4]

This show isn't at all comparable to DS9. While DS9 was of course quite different from TNG, the important point was that it was actually good.

Universe has a lot of potential. A very capable cast, a totally new setting where anything can happen. Yet nothing does happen. And we're given no reason to care what happens to these characters. I hope this show can turn around, but at this point I doubt it.

 

[Danny99]

This show isn't at all comparable to DS9. While DS9 was of course quite different from TNG, the important point was that it was actually good.

It's comparable to DS9 in the fact it was a complete departure from what was the established norm for it's franchise.

 

[Caliburn24]

People like to make that argument, but DS9 was really not particularly different from TNG, especially early on.

So the station stayed in one place instead of moving around, the wormhole basically negated that from a story-telling point of view since you can have anything come through it that the plot demands.

Later on when it got more serialized and darker, yeah it got different than earlier Treks, but for the first two seasons or so it fit in nicely with TNG.

SGU by comparison has ditched adventure and humor for the most part, which both earlier shows had in plenty. And replaced it with heavy serialization and supposedly more character based stories. Neither of which the writing staff, largely veterans of SG1 and SGA have much skill at writing.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

SGU by comparison has ditched adventure and humor for the most part, which both earlier shows had in plenty. And replaced it with heavy serialization and supposedly more character based stories. Neither of which the writing staff, largely veterans of SG1 and SGA have much skill at writing.

I think this is the heart of the problem.

While DS9 was created by Trek veterans, it's interesting that the people who made it good--Ira Behr, Ron Moore, etc.--wanted to do this kind of storytelling on TNG, but weren't allowed to get out of "Gene's box." DS9 gave them the opportunity to do something different and they ran with it.

With SGU, it seems like the situation is less that the writers wanted to do this kind of show and more that they saw BSG, thought "hey, dark and gritty is in!" and decided that would be the basis for their next series. Whether you like BSG or not, I think it's fair to say the people running this show don't really understand what people liked about BSG in the first place. They're trying to play to their audience without grasping what that audience wants, instead of just trying to make a good show.

 

[The Wormhole]

This show isn't at all comparable to DS9. While DS9 was of course quite different from TNG, the important point was that it was actually good.

It's comparable to DS9 in the fact it was a complete departure from what was the established norm for it's franchise.

DS9 became different as the show developed. You go back and watch the first two seasons. Aside from being on a space station as opposed to a starship, most of those stories could have been done on TNG with very little changed. Especially the first season.

 

[Agent Richard07]

Even in the end, DS9 wasn't that different. Sure, they tried some new stuff but I never saw it as this super radical departure that so many fans make it out to be.

 

[MilleniumLance]

one thing DS9 did have more of than TOS and TNG was "action"

 

[The Wormhole]

More action than TNG? Sure. But TOS was very action packed. One could even argue TOS had more action than DS9 since TOS never indulged in chaarcter oriented episodes as often as DS9 did. TOS didn't have episodes like Duet or Waltz for example.

 

[DWF]

More action than TNG? Sure. But TOS was very action packed. One could even argue TOS had more action than DS9 since TOS never indulged in chaarcter oriented episodes as often as DS9 did. TOS didn't have episodes like Duet or Waltz for example.

Try Conscience Of The King for one example.

 

[The Wormhole]

More action than TNG? Sure. But TOS was very action packed. One could even argue TOS had more action than DS9 since TOS never indulged in chaarcter oriented episodes as often as DS9 did. TOS didn't have episodes like Duet or Waltz for example.

Try Conscience Of The King for one example.

My point is DS9 had a larger percentage of character episodes than TOS.

 

[DWF]

More action than TNG? Sure. But TOS was very action packed. One could even argue TOS had more action than DS9 since TOS never indulged in chaarcter oriented episodes as often as DS9 did. TOS didn't have episodes like Duet or Waltz for example.

Try Conscience Of The King for one example.

My point is DS9 had a larger percentage of character episodes than TOS.

They also had more than twice as many eps. but the TOS characters are IMO more indearing than the DS9 characters were.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

With SGU, it seems like the situation is less that the writers wanted to do this kind of show and more that they saw BSG, thought "hey, dark and gritty is in!" and decided that would be the basis for their next series. Whether you like BSG or not, I think it's fair to say the people running this show don't really understand what people liked about BSG in the first place. They're trying to play to their audience without grasping what that audience wants, instead of just trying to make a good show.

I don't know that they are trying to make BSG but I agree this is the show the writers wanted to make. I think they were ready to do something different even if the audience wasn't. Personally I have found it more interesting than continuing wherever Atlantis was going. Atlantis had great characters but the stories were very by the numbers.

 

[MilleniumLance]

^^^ lmao at your avatar, and i feel the opposite about SGU it has an interesting premise and the stories they could write would be epic, but i dont really give a rats ass about these characters...

 

[Pauln6]

This one was a bit soap-opera for my tastes. I like the way Wray is developing into a far more sympathetic character than Young, which runs against type for Stargate shows where civilian oversight is only viewed positively when they finally understand the difficulties of military command but we'll see where this leads.

Rush isn't thinking overly clearly due to lack of sleep. I like his hallucinatory exchanges though. What I find silly is that the others aren't putting in more effort to keep tabs on him. He resists sharing knowledge with the others and they all know it - from a command perspective Young needs to order him to do that - if he is sick, incapacitated, or killed they're screwed. Same goes for TJ. These stones exchanges should be put to good use to get more qualified scientists on board on a regular basis and to train up some more staff in first aid and medical procedures instead of just uploaded administrative personnel and grunts. I don't see why a crew of uploaded scientists couldn't become semi-regular characters. Their current approach makes little sense.

Greer mentioned his fling with Park last week and this week he leaps to her defence. I hope they're going somewhere with that plot. She may be useless but she's still my favourite scientist. At least she has a personality.

I like where it's going but they need to get there a bit faster than they are. Less melodrama and more sci fi please.

 

[NKemp3]

And how did TPTB change DS9 after Sci Fi Universe's Dazed and Confused year in review cover story. They introduced the Defiant and brought Worf over from TNG. The question is will the Stargate powers have the time to turn Universe into a Stargate show?

The co-editor of that magazine came up with that cover idea for DS9 season two review. But the other co-editor, Mark Altman, who was the resident Trek expert who also happened to do the reviewing of all the DS9 episodes, actually LOVED the second season of DS9. And he made a point of letting people know he disagreed with Chris Gore's cover title.

You know though what Altman thought of DS9's third season which introduced the Defiant? He hated it. He loathed it so much he didn't even bother doing a year review of the episodes. In fact at that time he felt DS9 had lost its way and that VOY, after its first season, was going to be the Trek show to follow. But by the end of DS9's fouth season (which introduced Worf) and VOy's second season, Altman had changed his view again and once more favored DS9. And he kept championing the show up to its final end and basically was dismissive of VOY during its last six seasons.

So your point about that cover story fails. The actual writeup of DS9's second season was actually glowing, the negative lone barb came from a cover idea and editorial by Chris Gore, whom most felt was a lightweight compared to Mark Altman. When DS9, which remade itself almost every season during its first five years, made changes for season three such as the Defiant, it actually got killed by Sci Fi Universe. Period.

Also lets point out that even though most feel DS9's best seasons were its later seasons, the fact is that the ratings for seasons four through seven were FAR worse than those for the first three seasons. So what does that tell you? It tells me at least that ratings or ratings decline aren't always a measure of quality.