SG-U – Lost (1x15) - (Discuss – Grade | SPOILERS)

[O'Dib]

Or it actually slowed the freak down.

I've been enjoying the commstone free episodes so far, and like how there's an in-story explanation for that. This show by its very format requires frequent status-quo changes. It's keeping me on my toes.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Traveling blind doesn't help anyone. If they knew roughly where they were and roughly which direction to go, that's one thing. What's more, each gate takes them to a world with multiple paths to follow. So it's not even close to being a 50-50 shot.

It was just fucking stupid for them to leave. They should have waited in what was clearly a relatively safe, inhabitable world and wait a safe amount of time for a rescue party. If one didn't show up and they were indeed stranded, they could then use the gate to try and find a better place to live. Just wandering mindlessly about hopping that every jump (with its grossly diminishing chance of being the right path) was the right one to take was exactly that: Mindless. And there's no way anyone even remotely trained in special ops would go for it.

But again, if they did know which way to go, that would be a completely different story. But they didn't. And each jump (assuming, say, an average of 4 addresses per gate), gave them a diminishing ~25% chance of being the right way. Which means they had a 25% chance of picking the right gate the first time, then a 6% chance of using the right one, then a 2% chance of using the right one, then... etc.

Eli, alone, would have certainly known that the Destiny's crew would have had a significantly easier time of finding them. Since, you know, they actually had charts and knew where both they and the ship were.

Very, very poor writing.

Well, that would be true assuming a uniform distribution of gates through the galaxy. However, as Eli pointed out, that isn't the way it is----the gates follow a relatively narrow "corridor" through the galaxy near the path of the ship. So it basically turns into a 1-D random walk problem. Still not likely to get very far, but not so bad as you make out.

The really stupidity was not leaving notes on each planet with the gate they came from/went to next.

Yeah, they should've done that, although wouldn't their little remote device be sophisticated enough to keep a list of where they've been?

A graph search algorithm wouldn't work since they didn't know the layout of the gates to begin with. I'm pretty sure a graph search must be "informed."

Calling it a 1D random walk might be oversimplifying, too.

Really, it would make more sense if they could use the kino to take a snapshot of the night sky, identify the stars, and determine their location relative to the last planet. Since they weren't moving very far with each gate, it should not have been terribly difficult. I guess it would depend on the light sensitivity of the kino's optics, since you'd have to identify the stars by their relative position and luminosity.

But yeah, leaving notes would've been smart, barring any other way of knowing where they'd been.

 

[The Wormhole]

Another question: why did Scott waste ammunition firing at the "dinosaur" creature when he was just going to run through the gate anyway? Considering that they're stranded from the Destiny (which is supposed to be short on ammunition, too) you'd think he would be a little more careful.

Simple, he got scared with more reason then Master Sergeant Greer did when he went full auto on a coyote sized spider.

Thing is, Scott stopped right before he stepped through the gate, turned and fired at the "dinosaur." If he just continued through the gate, he'd have nothing to worry about.

I do agree, Greer emptying a clip on the spider was kind of stupid an unnecessary. You'd think the guy should have pretty good accuracy, therefore he could fire one shot and kill it. Yeah, I know, it's an alien lifeform, you don't know what it takes to kill it, but one shot to the head seems a pretty sure bet.

I've been enjoying the commstone free episodes so far, and like how there's an in-story explanation for that.

There is? I know the aliens now have their own stone, and can swap places with the Destiny crew, but that didn't stop them in episode 12 from connecting with Earth to get that doctor to operate on Rush.

 

[Tom]

^ Yeah, that was dumb and didn't make sense.

As I understand it, they found out about the Huffman into production. They'd already written the affair, and were planning to begin a running plot with someone on the ship being or becoming pregnant (I'm not sure if that was really solid, or if it was just on the list of Interesting Things To Do With The Premise). They made it T.J. once they found out.

My preference would have been for Chloe to get pregnant. Having it happen to the weaker, more unprepared girl would have been something.

That could happen, Either Chloe is on birth control, she or Scott have a mega huge stash of condoms around or Scott is the 'pull out' king.

Also, there is that asian looking chick (not Wray the other one that talks to TJ) that seems to bang a different guy every night. If she got pregnant you would not know who the father is.

 

[O'Dib]

I've been enjoying the commstone free episodes so far, and like how there's an in-story explanation for that.

There is? I know the aliens now have their own stone, and can swap places with the Destiny crew, but that didn't stop them in episode 12 from connecting with Earth to get that doctor to operate on Rush.

Hmm, I forgot about that. I just remembered Young puting a ban on stone use until a workaround is discovered for the aliens having one. Hmm.. It would be interesting to find out if people on Earth inadvertently swapped with the Smurfs as well.

Also, there is that asian looking chick (not Wray the other one that talks to TJ) that seems to bang a different guy every night. If she got pregnant you would not know who the father is.

Unless it's Greer. BTW, how sad is it I still had to check wikipedia to remember the names of Young & Greer?

 

[The Wormhole]

It would be interesting to find out if people on Earth inadvertently swapped with the Smurfs as well.

Spoiler: on that thought...

The season 1.5 trailer did show Colonel Telford with a bloodied face saying something like "they're coming." This could mean he swapped bodies with an alien.

 

[Lindley]

Yeah, they should've done that, although wouldn't their little remote device be sophisticated enough to keep a list of where they've been?

For them, yes. The notes are there in case the team from Destiny crosses the path of the lost team. It solves the "only staying 10 minutes on each planet" problem, and the "they should have stayed put" problem as well. In fact, with the notes, it becomes optimal to move on to another planet quickly to maximize the chances of the two opposite searches intersecting each other, but not *so* quickly that after the intersection, they couldn't catch up to the other exploring team.

A graph search algorithm wouldn't work since they didn't know the layout of the gates to begin with. I'm pretty sure a graph search must be "informed."

A heuristic search like A*, yes. But a simple depth-first-search or breadth-first-search does not.

Calling it a 1D random walk might be oversimplifying, too.

Only a bit. If you assume that the gates are primarily placed along Destiny's route, then each gate will either take them closer to Destiny or back along its path. Essentially a step of +1 or -1.

Really, it would make more sense if they could use the kino to take a snapshot of the night sky, identify the stars, and determine their location relative to the last planet. Since they weren't moving very far with each gate, it should not have been terribly difficult. I guess it would depend on the light sensitivity of the kino's optics, since you'd have to identify the stars by their relative position and luminosity.

If the Kino had software to do that, yeah. But I doubt that's something you could figure out on the back of an envelope.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Yeah, they should've done that, although wouldn't their little remote device be sophisticated enough to keep a list of where they've been?

For them, yes. The notes are there in case the team from Destiny crosses the path of the lost team. It solves the "only staying 10 minutes on each planet" problem, and the "they should have stayed put" problem as well. In fact, with the notes, it becomes optimal to move on to another planet quickly to maximize the chances of the two opposite searches intersecting each other, but not *so* quickly that after the intersection, they couldn't catch up to the other exploring team.

Ah, good point! Yes, that would've been wise. And they even left arrows for Greer, so it's not like they didn't consider leaving "signposts" of where they'd been. They just didn't put it into practice for their gate-hopping.

A graph search algorithm wouldn't work since they didn't know the layout of the gates to begin with. I'm pretty sure a graph search must be "informed."

A heuristic search like A*, yes. But a simple depth-first-search or breadth-first-search does not.

Forgive me, it's been a while since I had to mess with these sorts of things. You're right, of course. There is one variable we haven't mentioned, though: the Destiny is moving. While in practice it only stopped in the one star system, in theory it could've stopped in several, giving Scott's team multiple opportunities to get back--but also a moving destination as a target.

In any case, DFS and BFS have polynomial complexity, and the team had no idea if they were going in the right direction until they got to the dusty planet where Young marooned Rush. A complex problem to solve, although Eli is supposedly smart enough he could've found a more efficient way than blind dialing.

Calling it a 1D random walk might be oversimplifying, too.

Only a bit. If you assume that the gates are primarily placed along Destiny's route, then each gate will either take them closer to Destiny or back along its path. Essentially a step of +1 or -1.

But, with any given jump, they have no idea how much closer or if they're closer to Destiny. It was only by pure luck that they happened upon a familiar planet. They could've wound up all the way on the other end of the galaxy!

Really, it would make more sense if they could use the kino to take a snapshot of the night sky, identify the stars, and determine their location relative to the last planet. Since they weren't moving very far with each gate, it should not have been terribly difficult. I guess it would depend on the light sensitivity of the kino's optics, since you'd have to identify the stars by their relative position and luminosity.

If the Kino had software to do that, yeah. But I doubt that's something you could figure out on the back of an envelope.

Maybe the Ancients should put in a task to include it in the next service pack.

 

[Lindley]

But, with any given jump, they have no idea how much closer or if they're closer to Destiny. It was only by pure luck that they happened upon a familiar planet. They could've wound up all the way on the other end of the galaxy!

Well, random walk behaves that way too, that's why I made the analogy. In a true random walk, the agent spends most of its time very close to the starting point. The frequency of visits to positions far away from the start (in either direction) drops off fast----probably Gaussian, but I'm not positive about that.

Of course, this isn't quite a true random walk, since there are a limited number of gates in any "segment" of the corridor, and they can take care not to revisit one they've already been to. They might even be able to keep themselves more or less going one direction if there was overlap between the gates reachable from two subsequent planets; the ones not overlapping will be in the same direction they just went, generally.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

But, with any given jump, they have no idea how much closer or if they're closer to Destiny. It was only by pure luck that they happened upon a familiar planet. They could've wound up all the way on the other end of the galaxy!

Well, random walk behaves that way too, that's why I made the analogy. In a true random walk, the agent spends most of its time very close to the starting point. The frequency of visits to positions far away from the start (in either direction) drops off fast----probably Gaussian, but I'm not positive about that.

Of course, this isn't quite a true random walk, since there are a limited number of gates in any "segment" of the corridor, and they can take care not to revisit one they've already been to. They might even be able to keep themselves more or less going one direction if there was overlap between the gates reachable from two subsequent planets; the ones not overlapping will be in the same direction they just went, generally.

Yeah, good points. You can see how much I have to deal with these sorts of algorithms, doing health insurance software.

 

[Star Wolf]

Re: SG-U

Why were James and Rush even checking the other planets instead of gating to the ruins and working their way backwards to Destiny anyway?

 

[Lindley]

Re: SG-U

That's a good question. Presumably, Rush would have access to a more complete map of the system than Eli did, so he ought to have been better at targeting their direction of travel to reach the ruins planet.

 

[Broccoli]

Re: SG-U

Why were James and Rush even checking the other planets instead of gating to the ruins and working their way backwards to Destiny anyway?

Wasn't the implication that they were too far away to gate to that planet and basically needed to do the "reverse" of what Eli, Scott, and Chloe were trying to do?

 

[Star Wolf]

Re: SG-U

Why were James and Rush even checking the other planets instead of gating to the ruins and working their way backwards to Destiny anyway?

Wasn't the implication that they were too far away to gate to that planet and basically needed to do the "reverse" of what Eli, Scott, and Chloe were trying to do?

Maybe I didn't watch the original series enough but what is meant by the Stargate being "out of range" of the gate system. since when did it become the ring transporter that for all uses it could have been in every episode except Air part I and Lost?

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Re: SG-U

Why were James and Rush even checking the other planets instead of gating to the ruins and working their way backwards to Destiny anyway?

Wasn't the implication that they were too far away to gate to that planet and basically needed to do the "reverse" of what Eli, Scott, and Chloe were trying to do?

Maybe I didn't watch the original series enough but what is meant by the Stargate being "out of range" of the gate system. since when did it become the ring transporter that for all uses it could have been in every episode except Air part I and Lost?

The Destiny and the seeder ships that preceded it are hundreds of thousands of years old. Their stargate technology is likewise very old. It appears that their gates have a very limited range, though it seems to be a matter of power rather than a genuine technological limitation.

The gates in this galaxy don't have DHDs, for instance. They have to use the remote.

 

[Brent]

The power source is obviously located in the base platform that holds the gate, that is the most logical place to put it, I mean, it has to have one, so why not there.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Yeah, most likely.

Or they're just powered by imagination.

 

[Brent]

Heh, that was awesome having a Stargate in that episode!

 

[O'Dib]

Why wouldn't the power source be somewhere within the rings themselves? Considering Atlantis had working gates in orbit, without base platforms.

 

[Brent]

Because of established fact. MW gates are powered by the DHD. Atlantis gates are powered by the DHD. Space gates are powered by the DHD on the jumpers.