SF Writer Peter Watts Arrested, Beaten At US-Canadian Border

[Checkmate]

Here's why people trust Watts over the cops involved: because there are witnesses, because Watts has provided a lot of detail, and because the only official police statements have included at least one big mistake, claiming he was trying to go from Canada into the USA instead of the opposite.

Really? All I see are a bunch of sycophants crying and clamoring in order to get free publicity for some obscure sci-fi writer most people haven't even heard of. They're also parading around his 'celebrity' status as a writer because, somehow, that's relevant to anything at all. Oh wait, no it's not.

Watts and his supporters wouldn't be hoping the situation was videotaped by security cameras if he was the one misrepresenting the situation.

Yeah, because knowing there isn't any videotape of the situation sure makes it easier to spin the encounter their way. And hey, they're "hoping" that it was filmed (even though they know it wasn't), so clearly they're in the right! And whoever-this-random-guy-is really is a saint of saints and did nothing to provoke the situation.

Damn those black-hearted law enforcement officers! Ooh, they're so evil! Burn them! BURN THEM ALL! AMG!!!

 

[Bad Bishop]

Here's why people trust Watts over the cops involved: because there are witnesses, because Watts has provided a lot of detail, and because the only official police statements have included at least one big mistake, claiming he was trying to go from Canada into the USA instead of the opposite.

Really? All I see are a bunch of sycophants crying and clamoring in order to get free publicity for some obscure sci-fi writer most people haven't even heard of.

I certainly have never heard of him. He seems to be less famous than Naomi Watts, J.C. Watts and Slick Watts.

 

[Steve Roby]

All I see are a bunch of sycophants crying and clamoring in order to get free publicity for some obscure sci-fi writer most people haven't even heard of. They're also parading around his 'celebrity' status as a writer because, somehow, that's relevant to anything at all. Oh wait, no it's not.

Oh. So you're okay with someone being beaten and denied due process of law (he was not allowed legal representation and was repeatedly asked to waive his Miranda rights) for talking to border guards. As I understand it, he's been charged with assault; if he were being charged with actual violence, he'd be charged with assault and battery, which is the term used when things actually get physical. But he isn't. Surely if he did something bad enough to deserve a beating he'd be charged appropriately.

Watts and his supporters wouldn't be hoping the situation was videotaped by security cameras if he was the one misrepresenting the situation.

Yeah, because knowing there isn't any videotape of the situation sure makes it easier to spin the encounter their way. And hey, they're "hoping" that it was filmed (even though they know it wasn't), so clearly they're in the right! And whoever-this-random-guy-is really is a saint of saints and did nothing to provoke the situation.

Who says they know there's no tape? It's a US border crossing post-9/11. Wouldn't it be insane not to have cameras there?

Like I said before, lots of good reading here, with some actual information here and there.

Anyway, this isn't my battle; I don't know the guy, I've never read his stuff. I just find his side of the story more credible, based on all of the information I've read so far, rather than a kneejerk reaction in either direction.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Here's why people trust Watts over the cops involved: because there are witnesses, because Watts has provided a lot of detail, and because the only official police statements have included at least one big mistake, claiming he was trying to go from Canada into the USA instead of the opposite.

Really? All I see are a bunch of sycophants crying and clamoring in order to get free publicity for some obscure sci-fi writer most people haven't even heard of. They're also parading around his 'celebrity' status as a writer because, somehow, that's relevant to anything at all. Oh wait, no it's not.

Watts and his supporters wouldn't be hoping the situation was videotaped by security cameras if he was the one misrepresenting the situation.

Yeah, because knowing there isn't any videotape of the situation sure makes it easier to spin the encounter their way. And hey, they're "hoping" that it was filmed (even though they know it wasn't), so clearly they're in the right! And whoever-this-random-guy-is really is a saint of saints and did nothing to provoke the situation.

Damn those black-hearted law enforcement officers! Ooh, they're so evil! Burn them! BURN THEM ALL! AMG!!!

No one on this site is nearly as hyperbolic as you are pretending we're being.

 

[Delta1]

So that's what he's been doing since the Millennium thing didn't pan out.

 

[Teelie]

Checkmate is taking the opposite side of those supposed sycophants and defending the border patrol blindly and rather aggressively against anyone who dares question their authority.

I know of Peter Watts. I read his books before he became as "famous" as he is now but I'm not automatically siding with him on this either. He did something to set them off whether he realizes it or not but the reaction from border patrol is definitely over the top and unjustified in the details we've gotten so far.

That is the problem though: we've only gotten one side of the story and clearly a biased one at that. Who is going to admit to provoking them? Assuming they even know what it is they did. Border patrol might be dicks in general but they must have been sparked by something, we just don't know what caused it yet.

On the other hand there aren't many people who won't believe there was an abuse of authority here either and that the border patrol acted out of line with the supposed threat Watts was.

There is a routine of hiding the breaking of the law by law enforcement (which should tell you something) and while not all of them are so willing to cover it up, not a lot are willing to speak up when it happens either. Look at any fraternal order and you will find a cover up of abuse of power or illegal goings-on. It's the secrecy and expectation to watch out for your brothers that leads to it. Instead of it being used to protect one another and form close bonds, it is abused to cover up things any other person outside that order would be arrested for.

So you get situations like this where abuse and corruption are the norm and accepted. That people are so unwilling to believe just how pervasive abuse is can be disappointing but not everyone realizes it happens on a normal basis.

 

[Base_Delta_Zero]

I'd like to see the actual report made by the officers, photos and/or a medical report concerning the author's injuries and witness statements from people who were A) not directly involved with the arrest and B) not related/friends of the arrestee.

Until there's something more than the author, his friends and his lawyer screaming on the internet about his mistreatment (both at the border crossing and online), my inclination is to think perhaps, just maybe, his version of events is a little skewed.

And I can understand how Checkmate might be getting a bit over-aggitated, what with the majority on this board having already sided with the author over the officers.

Being in Homeland Security myself, I don't appreciate the general trend of board users accusing all or most police/security personnel as jackbooted thugs itching to beat down on the little guy whenever something like this is reported. I and the people I work with by and large do our best to help people and 99% of the time, the only thing reported is when some idiot on either side of the law provokes an incident. No one sees reports saying, "Hey, nice job with the day after day of doing good work keeping people safe." It's always, "Some idiot working for so and so fucked up. Everyone associated with him is an asshole. ACLU!"

It's tiring.

 

[StarshipDefiant]

I'd like to see the actual report made by the officers, photos and/or a medical report concerning the author's injuries and witness statements from people who were A) not directly involved with the arrest and B) not related/friends of the arrestee.

Until there's something more than the author, his friends and his lawyer screaming on the internet about his mistreatment (both at the border crossing and online), my inclination is to think perhaps, just maybe, his version of events is a little skewed.

And I can understand how Checkmate might be getting a bit over-aggitated, what with the majority on this board having already sided with the author over the officers.

Being in Homeland Security myself, I don't appreciate the general trend of board users accusing all or most police/security personnel as jackbooted thugs itching to beat down on the little guy whenever something like this is reported. I and the people I work with by and large do our best to help people and 99% of the time, the only thing reported is when some idiot on either side of the law provokes an incident. No one sees reports saying, "Hey, nice job with the day after day of doing good work keeping people safe." It's always, "Some idiot working for so and so fucked up. Everyone associated with him is an asshole. ACLU!"

It's tiring.

I can understand that, and I am not siding with anyone, I will agree, this guy was an idiot for getting out of the car if he was told to stay in it, or not told to get out of it. With that said, barring that he actually ran at them, or became physical. I find it hard to believe that the answer was to mace the guy, not if there were plenty of people around to take him down if he was causing trouble. Then again, maybe he hand his hands or something, I don't know, the report doesn't say.

As for feeling threatened, the officer(s) in question should actually feel threatened, and not jump the hoop because some asshole bigmouth is shooting his mouth off and being an idiot.

Sounds to me like everyone on all sides was hot under the collar and the border agents may, or may not have seen something with potential intent and reacted as such.

With that said, I don't hate cops, but I hate bullies with a badge, theres a difference.

 

[Teelie]

There are too many bullies with a badge and they are too often given the benefit of a doubt or just allowed to slide by with the barest slap on the wrist. This isn't all law enforcement are bullies but that they let the bullies get away with it. The fact there are so many covers ups, so many unpunished cops doing things they are supposed to prevent does not give the public a positive or appreciative opinion of them. That it happens so frequently is disappointing. Overly aggressive cops and over-reactionary cops are the ones giving all cops a bad name and it's only when a victim of their actions comes out or a brave whistle-blower comes out that something is done. It is unfair to clump all cops together but these days it feels hard to tell who is or isn't over reaching their power.

 

[Myasishchev]

^Pretty sure you cannot sue the federal government. Am I wrong?

If permitted under the Federal Tort Claims Act or other statute. Battery and false imprisonment are permitted torts.

Here's something I didn't know after refreshing my memory with trusty Wikipedia: it was a result of the B-25 that crashed into the Empire State Building. I was under the impression that crash was bloodless (civilian-wise, that is).

My bet is he almost certainly was being an asshole, but that a bunch of overtrained officers overreacted. Frankly, I'd much rather see a lot more cops get injured underreacting to actual threats than the batteries to loudmouths that our present atmosphere of fear seems to breed. But I would suspect that whoever Peter Watts is, his arrest was lawful. Myself, I'd happily exchange a beating not to get an assault charge.

Btw, aren't the border guys DHS? Those guys aren't even real cops, as far as I'm concerned. My girlfriend practically got raped in downtown Atlanta once because we spend money on fifty DHS morons to sit in the State Department building defending it with God knows what, their body mass I suppose, instead of the half dozen actual cops that might make Forsyth Street less reminiscent of Dahravi than America.

 

[TorontoTrekker]

Apologies for the thread necromancy, but Peter's trial ended yesterday. Unfortunately, after five and half hours of deliberation, the jury found him guilty of resisting and obstructing a police officer. He faces a possible two-year jail sentence and $2000 fine; sentencing is April 26.

There's more at the Toronto Star's website, here, and at Peter's blog, here.

Across the board, every comment I've seen online is urging him to appeal; it doesn't sound as though he's planning to, though his lawyer may still persuade him to do so. We shall see.

 

[Checkmate]

Yes, the not-even-mildly "famous" writer can't possibly be guilty. Did he deserve the full brunt of what he received? Probably not, but he probably deserved a good deal of it. I've seen assholes like this flip out and treat law enforcement types like utter shit. And, speaking solely for myself, I wish it were completely legal to beat the shit out of people who can't show even a modicum of respect to them.

 

[Jimmy Bob]

And, speaking solely for myself, I wish it were completely legal to beat the shit out of people who can't show even a modicum of respect to them.

Yes, I wish it was legal too to beat the shit out of assholes like Checkmate, who just assumes that someone's an asshole just because he is a writer.

Two years! American laws are fucked up. In Europe he would have just gotten a warning at worst.

At best, the government would have gotten a warning.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Yes, the not-even-mildly "famous" writer can't possibly be guilty. Did he deserve the full brunt of what he received? Probably not, but he probably deserved a good deal of it. I've seen assholes like this flip out and treat law enforcement types like utter shit. And, speaking solely for myself, I wish it were completely legal to beat the shit out of people who can't show even a modicum of respect to them.

Classy.

 

[Checkmate]

...who just assumes that someone's an asshole just because he is a writer.

I'm not assuming anymore. He's been judged to be one by a jury of his peers. Based on real evidence. Unlike, you know, some bumbling boobs on a message board who think they're cool because they hate cops and the government.

I mean, he's a two-bit sci-fi writer that hardly anyone's ever even heard of. OF COURSE HE'S INNOCENT AND A SAINT! OMFG! THERE'S NO WAY HE DID ANYTHING TO WARRANT THIS! WRITER'S ARE TOO PEACEFUL AND LOVING OMG OMG OMG!

 

[Noname Given]

...who just assumes that someone's an asshole just because he is a writer.

I'm not assuming anymore. He's been judged to be one by a jury of his peers. Based on real evidence. Unlike, you know, some bumbling boobs on a message board who think they're cool because they hate cops and the government.

I mean, he's a two-bit sci-fi writer that hardly anyone's ever even heard of. OF COURSE HE'S INNOCENT AND A SAINT! OMFG! THERE'S NO WAY HE DID ANYTHING TO WARRANT THIS! WRITER'S ARE TOO PEACEFUL AND LOVING OMG OMG OMG!

And if you read the links - you'll see that (in this case0; the Boarder Gurda WERE a$$holes and liars even by the prosecutor'sown admission, and the 'no-compliance' he was convicted on was AFTER he'd been elbowed in the face.

I have a feeling the sentence will be 'time served' or the minimum amout of probation time mandated by the statute.

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

In my opinion, for someone to be handcuffed and pepper sprayed (!) and arrested, he had better have been violent (as in, physically threatening) towards the guards, otherwise it is clearly an excessive reaction.

 

[sidious618]

Yes, the not-even-mildly "famous" writer can't possibly be guilty. Did he deserve the full brunt of what he received? Probably not, but he probably deserved a good deal of it. I've seen assholes like this flip out and treat law enforcement types like utter shit. And, speaking solely for myself, I wish it were completely legal to beat the shit out of people who can't show even a modicum of respect to them.

Quite a bit of anger you have pent up, eh?

 

[Checkmate]

Towards people like him? You bet.

 

[Misfit Toy]

And, speaking solely for myself, I wish it were completely legal to beat the shit out of people who can't show even a modicum of respect to them.

So you think the Iranian government has it right, then?