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SF/F on network TV - who's giving up?

23skidoo

Admiral
Admiral
Despite high hopes (well, for some), it looks like the 2010-11 season is set to be another wipeout for fans of science fiction and fantasy on mainstream network TV.

The viewing/ratings statistics website By the Number (http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com) has a chart they update each week on the status of shows on the big 4 networks plus The CW, and it's pretty grim:

Medium: Cancelled
No Ordinary Family: Certain to be cancelled
The Cape: Certain to be cancelled
V: Likely to be cancelled
Human Target: Likely to be cancelled
The Event: Likely to be cancelled
American Dad: On the bubble
Fringe: On the bubble
Chuck: On the bubble
Smallville: Not cancelled, but ending anyway

The only shows that the site considers safe are the spy series Nikita (not really SF/F but it targets the same demographic), and the supernatural shows, er, Supernatural and The Vampire Diaries. And the fandom-friendly Big Bang Theory if you want to be picky.

Forget about quality issues, because before you say "well the shows suck that's why" note that Fringe continues to be acclaimed, Medium has many followers, and the fact Chuck has a loyal fanbase that loves the show goes without saying. I keep saying this - quality has no nearing on success in the ratings and never have, and if you need the example to prove it, try starting a thread about how bad a show Firefly was! ;)

Anyway, every year this question gets asked, but I think it's going to stick this time. How many people are basically giving up on watching any SF/F-related programming on the mainstream American networks in the future? Shows like V, The Cape - I put a lot of interest into those shows, but they're dead in the water. Moreso than in past years, I'm being left rather gunshy about putting in any more "investment" into new shows.

Cases in point: they've announced a new show called 17th Precinct for NBC which is about police detectives working in a magical fantasy city. Sounds really cool. I won't be watching it because it'll be cancelled in 6 episodes. I'm curious to see what David Kelly does with Wonder Woman, but even if they cast Summer Glau as Diana (hey, looks like she'll be available soon) I won't be watching because the ratings show the American mainstream network audience isn't interested in superhero shows.

Thank god for the cable networks, where shows like Being Human and Doctor Who and Torchwood continue to thrive. Doctor Who wouldn't have lasted 6 weeks on NBC.

I'm just wondering how much it will take for Ronald D Moore (who is behind that 17th Precinct), David Kelley, Joss Whedon to finally realize it's a waste of time, emotional investment, and money to keep flogging a dead horse and try to get the American mainstream audience to watch these types of shows when they'd rather look at J-Lo's ass on American Idol or see what The Bachelor is up to. Not saying they should stop making TV series - the TV series format is still superior to film in terms of telling detailed, long-form stories - and I'm not even saying they should abandon mainstream networks because I know they have contracts that all but force them to dance with the devil, but rather than launching a series for one of the main networks and saying they have a 3-year story arc planned, only to have Fox kill it in 4 episodes (Wonderfalls), they should look to the past and revive the mini-series.

I think if we went back to "event" shows there might be more success in the SF/F arena on mainstream TV. The Cape, Fringe, even Chuck might have worked a lot better - ratings-wise, and some might also argue quality-wise - as, say, an 8-hour "novel for television". The success of Torchwood: Children of Earth shows old-school mini-series can still work in the 21st century; Russell T Davies was so convinced by how COE did he's basically sworn off "full-length" seasons - the next Torchwood "season" will be a 10-hour mini-series.

If they turn around and say 17th Precinct will be a 5-night event, or Wonder Woman will be a 6-episode limited run series, then I'd probably tune in because I've never heard of a mainstream network cancelling a mini-series midway through.

Alex
 
Despite high hopes (well, for some), it looks like the 2010-11 season is set to be another wipeout for fans of science fiction and fantasy on mainstream network TV.

The viewing/ratings statistics website By the Number (http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com) has a chart they update each week on the status of shows on the big 4 networks plus The CW, and it's pretty grim:

Medium: Cancelled
No Ordinary Family: Certain to be cancelled
The Cape: Certain to be cancelled
V: Likely to be cancelled
Human Target: Likely to be cancelled
The Event: Likely to be cancelled
American Dad: On the bubble
Fringe: On the bubble
Chuck: On the bubble
Smallville: Not cancelled, but ending anyway

The only shows that the site considers safe are the spy series Nikita (not really SF/F but it targets the same demographic), and the supernatural shows, er, Supernatural and The Vampire Diaries. And the fandom-friendly Big Bang Theory if you want to be picky.

Forget about quality issues, because before you say "well the shows suck that's why" note that Fringe continues to be acclaimed, Medium has many followers, and the fact Chuck has a loyal fanbase that loves the show goes without saying. I keep saying this - quality has no nearing on success in the ratings and never have, and if you need the example to prove it, try starting a thread about how bad a show Firefly was! ;)

Anyway, every year this question gets asked, but I think it's going to stick this time. How many people are basically giving up on watching any SF/F-related programming on the mainstream American networks in the future? Shows like V, The Cape - I put a lot of interest into those shows, but they're dead in the water. Moreso than in past years, I'm being left rather gunshy about putting in any more "investment" into new shows.

Cases in point: they've announced a new show called 17th Precinct for NBC which is about police detectives working in a magical fantasy city. Sounds really cool. I won't be watching it because it'll be cancelled in 6 episodes. I'm curious to see what David Kelly does with Wonder Woman, but even if they cast Summer Glau as Diana (hey, looks like she'll be available soon) I won't be watching because the ratings show the American mainstream network audience isn't interested in superhero shows.

Thank god for the cable networks, where shows like Being Human and Doctor Who and Torchwood continue to thrive. Doctor Who wouldn't have lasted 6 weeks on NBC.

I'm just wondering how much it will take for Ronald D Moore (who is behind that 17th Precinct), David Kelley, Joss Whedon to finally realize it's a waste of time, emotional investment, and money to keep flogging a dead horse and try to get the American mainstream audience to watch these types of shows when they'd rather look at J-Lo's ass on American Idol or see what The Bachelor is up to. Not saying they should stop making TV series - the TV series format is still superior to film in terms of telling detailed, long-form stories - and I'm not even saying they should abandon mainstream networks because I know they have contracts that all but force them to dance with the devil, but rather than launching a series for one of the main networks and saying they have a 3-year story arc planned, only to have Fox kill it in 4 episodes (Wonderfalls), they should look to the past and revive the mini-series.

I think if we went back to "event" shows there might be more success in the SF/F arena on mainstream TV. The Cape, Fringe, even Chuck might have worked a lot better - ratings-wise, and some might also argue quality-wise - as, say, an 8-hour "novel for television". The success of Torchwood: Children of Earth shows old-school mini-series can still work in the 21st century; Russell T Davies was so convinced by how COE did he's basically sworn off "full-length" seasons - the next Torchwood "season" will be a 10-hour mini-series.

If they turn around and say 17th Precinct will be a 5-night event, or Wonder Woman will be a 6-episode limited run series, then I'd probably tune in because I've never heard of a mainstream network cancelling a mini-series midway through.

Alex

Let's see a couple long running shows ending, another couple shows that have had multiple seasons on the bubble, and some freshman shows flopping. Sorry, but that just sounds like the general TV market. It's hard to create a successful show. You could change this post to talk about any other genre and produce a similar doom and gloom list.

Sci Fi fans seem to expect shows they like to succeed more often than the network average, but that's not going to happen. On top of that, refusing to watch a new show just drops its ratings and ensures that the show won't succeed. As long as networks continue to produce new shows that interest me, I'll continue to try them out. If the show succeeds great, I can say I was a fan from the start. If the show flops, well I still got to watch 13 hours of a show I liked. That's the equivalent of 5-6 movies worth of entertainment at a fraction of the cost.
 
Let's see a couple long running shows ending, another couple shows that have had multiple seasons on the bubble, and some freshman shows flopping. Sorry, but that just sounds like the general TV market. It's hard to create a successful show. You could change this post to talk about any other genre and produce a similar doom and gloom list.

Sci Fi fans seem to expect shows they like to succeed more often than the network average, but that's not going to happen. On top of that, refusing to watch a new show just drops its ratings and ensures that the show won't succeed. As long as networks continue to produce new shows that interest me, I'll continue to try them out. If the show succeeds great, I can say I was a fan from the start. If the show flops, well I still got to watch 13 hours of a show I liked. That's the equivalent of 5-6 movies worth of entertainment at a fraction of the cost.
Well said. I agree entirely.
 
We need one show, a focused effort that will catch the general public's eye.
Something...wonderful. Something without the "painted in the corner" approach of shows like "V", something open-ended where the cast spends its time exploring strange new worlds and new civilizations, boldly going-oh, wait.

Not gonna happen, is it?
 
Most sff in the last few years has been crappy so--Heroes post season 1, Life on Mars(American version), V, Flash Forward, SGU, SGA, Caprica, The Gates, Persons Unknown, Surface etc that they deservedly get canned.

Chuck had a nice run--4 years-- and it started showing its age this season. Medium had a long run but the last few seasons weren't that great so it getting canned was no big deal. NOF isn't that good--like so much tv it is derivative and therefore not very interesting or surprising, Smallville had a decade long run which is astonishing for such a crappy show. Fringe doesn't have interesting characters and is too uneven--once again it is just a pale imitiation of the superior X-Files.

I don't think fans are abandoning sff- sff is just not very good so why watch something that doesn't hold your attention. People will watch good sff--Heroes S1 or LOST.
 
I'm not giving up quite yet, but I admit, there isn't much on network TV I'm bothering to watch. I've pretty much bailed on Chuck, I guess. I'll let the episodes pile up on my DVR and then sort thru them to see if there's anything worth bothering with. V is okay to watch for now, if only to make fun of it.

I'll check out anything that looks interesting in the fall season but given the recent track record, I'm not too hopeful. However, there is a ton of sf/f stuff going to pilot on the networks and even more if you count cable. With any luck, there will be a couple survivors that can join The Walking Dead next season as "sf/f that is actually worth bothering with." Skiffy better get their act together because right now, it's a wasteland for anything decent to watch.

My favorite sf/f show on the air right now is Star Wars: The Clone Wars which is shaping up to be incredibly good for just a "kiddie show." :bolian:

American TV has bailed on the miniseries format, probably for financial reasons. You need to make more than a few episodes to make back the startup investment. HBO is the only place where miniseries thrive (Starz and maybe Showtime too) because premium cable gets subscription money.
 
There certainly is very little to watch right now and not much that looks interesting coming down the pike. Fringe was very good in Season 2 and the first part of Season 3, but lately has dropped off a bit in quality. It may still rebound, but with it's ratings slide the last couple weeks it's hard to believe we'll get a fourth season. Still 3 full seasons isn't too bad.

SG-U really never made it over the hump for me. Caprica was too smart for some and too slow for others. Chuck looks too goofy for me. Clone wars looks decent but I'm really not much of a Star Wars fan. Walking Dead is quite good, but on AMC so brief seasons and none of the benefit of airing on cable like some shows enjoy. Dexter is really, really good, but also very short seasons.

I do watch Castle......mostly for the humour and Nathan (though Stana is pretty hot herself) and Big Bang Theory and How I met your mother.

So, on any given week I'll spend 2-3 hours in front of the TV tops. Thank God for books. :)
 
People don't want to watch a show that's just going to end up canceled, so it ends up getting canceled. It's a failing system.
 
These days I just don't watch regular network TV shows as they air anymore. That goes for all types of series, not just SF and fantasy. It seems like everything gets canceled so quickly, there's little point to getting excited about anything.

I usually wait for a series to hit DVD before I watch it--there's no commercials, and it's just more fun to watch it in a large block, instead of having to wait for a new episode to air every week.

Sean
 
I'm not giving up quite yet, but I admit, there isn't much on network TV I'm bothering to watch. I've pretty much bailed on Chuck, I guess. I'll let the episodes pile up on my DVR and then sort thru them to see if there's anything worth bothering with. V is okay to watch for now, if only to make fun of it.

I'll check out anything that looks interesting in the fall season but given the recent track record, I'm not too hopeful. However, there is a ton of sf/f stuff going to pilot on the networks and even more if you count cable. With any luck, there will be a couple survivors that can join The Walking Dead next season as "sf/f that is actually worth bothering with." Skiffy better get their act together because right now, it's a wasteland for anything decent to watch.

My favorite sf/f show on the air right now is Star Wars: The Clone Wars which is shaping up to be incredibly good for just a "kiddie show." :bolian:

American TV has bailed on the miniseries format, probably for financial reasons. You need to make more than a few episodes to make back the startup investment. HBO is the only place where miniseries thrive (Starz and maybe Showtime too) because premium cable gets subscription money.

SyFy has been the one non-premium network that continues to have success with the miniseries format. Tin Man and Alice have been some of their highest rated programming. They have Neverland coming at the end of 2011, and they're moving to one a year with Treasure Island coming in 2012.
 
Most sff in the last few years has been crappy so--Heroes post season 1, Life on Mars(American version), V, Flash Forward, SGU, SGA, Caprica, The Gates, Persons Unknown, Surface etc that they deservedly get canned.


Hey, I liked THE GATES . . . .
 
ABC is hoping to bring the event miniseries back to broadcast television. They're developing an adaptation of Wicked - a non-musical version based on the novel - as an eight-hour mini.
 
I'm not giving up quite yet, but I admit, there isn't much on network TV I'm bothering to watch. I've pretty much bailed on Chuck, I guess. I'll let the episodes pile up on my DVR and then sort thru them to see if there's anything worth bothering with. V is okay to watch for now, if only to make fun of it.

I'll check out anything that looks interesting in the fall season but given the recent track record, I'm not too hopeful. However, there is a ton of sf/f stuff going to pilot on the networks and even more if you count cable. With any luck, there will be a couple survivors that can join The Walking Dead next season as "sf/f that is actually worth bothering with." Skiffy better get their act together because right now, it's a wasteland for anything decent to watch.

My favorite sf/f show on the air right now is Star Wars: The Clone Wars which is shaping up to be incredibly good for just a "kiddie show." :bolian:

American TV has bailed on the miniseries format, probably for financial reasons. You need to make more than a few episodes to make back the startup investment. HBO is the only place where miniseries thrive (Starz and maybe Showtime too) because premium cable gets subscription money.

SyFy has been the one non-premium network that continues to have success with the miniseries format. Tin Man and Alice have been some of their highest rated programming. They have Neverland coming at the end of 2011, and they're moving to one a year with Treasure Island coming in 2012.

I can't tell the difference between Skiffy miniseries and attempted backdoor pilots that fail. ;)
 
These days I just don't watch regular network TV shows as they air anymore. That goes for all types of series, not just SF and fantasy. It seems like everything gets canceled so quickly, there's little point to getting excited about anything.

I usually wait for a series to hit DVD before I watch it--there's no commercials, and it's just more fun to watch it in a large block, instead of having to wait for a new episode to air every week.

Sean

Agreed, and don't forget those annoying "pop-ups" on the screen DURING the show.

Do they still do that? The last first run episode of anything I watched was Enterprise's series finale, and that was what? Six years ago now?
 
These days I just don't watch regular network TV shows as they air anymore. That goes for all types of series, not just SF and fantasy. It seems like everything gets canceled so quickly, there's little point to getting excited about anything.

I usually wait for a series to hit DVD before I watch it--there's no commercials, and it's just more fun to watch it in a large block, instead of having to wait for a new episode to air every week.

Sean

Agreed, and don't forget those annoying "pop-ups" on the screen DURING the show.

Do they still do that? The last first run episode of anything I watched was Enterprise's series finale, and that was what? Six years ago now?

Oh yeah. I tried watching Sanctuary one time, and the constant pop up ads during the show finally drove me to switch it off. I really love the pop ups that tell you what show you're presently watching, just in case you've forgotten. :eek:

Sean
 
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