Serpents Among the Ruins -- Reflections

[Nathan]

I was deployed to Afghanistan from 2003 to 2004 when this book came out. Obviously, Barnes & Nobles haven't hit the country yet.

After spending 8 months in that hell hole, I was granted 4 days R&R to Qatar. I recall the air not full of dust and able to relax slightly as i had a decent bunk and above par food. I recall going to the post's "library" where you could grab donated books. I remember seeing Serpents on the book shelf. I was doubly excited as I particularly like the Post Generations/Pre-TNG Star Trek Era and that DRG3 is a kick @$$ author.

I remember grabbing it and sitting in an air conditioned mess hall eating an orange slurpee, couple of cheeseburgers, ice cream, onion rings, and drinking Dr. Pepper. I found a corner in the mess hall and read about 1/3 of the book that afternoon, and by the time my R&R was over to head back to the Forward Operating Base in Afghanistan it was practically read.

It is probably my favorite book (or at least Top 5) of all Trek books I ever read.

Why do i bring this up??? Yesterday, in my hometown used book store, I saw the book sitting on the shelf and began reading it. It conjured up all those memories of not dealing with rocket attacks, temperatures close to 100 degrees, wearing body armor, carrying my M-16, convoy duty, IEDs, dealing with unexploded ordnance, seeing wounded soldiers & civilians for a few days. I practically can taste those cheeseburgers and slurpee I had that day. Also, I still recall the air conditioning in the building that i hadn't felt in months

During my tour, I was able to read books, but obviously in a war zone, its a little tough to relax. Also, I could only lug a few duffel bags around the country and moved throughout the country frequently. Plus, i didn't want a "mobile library" in my ruck sack. Sometimes, it took awhile for mail to catch up to me

I've started reading it again. I forgot a few details and recalling now why it is such a great read -- especially from my own home.

Thanks DRG3 for the great read -- then and now!!!!

 

[phrog]

[Might][want][to][clean][up][your][post].

The formatting boxes make it a bit unreadable. Still, I get a general positive vibe towards David R George III and Serpents... which I can always get behind. Great book, amazing author. Both are some of Trek's best.

 

[David R. George III]

Nathan, I can't tell you how terrific it makes me feel to hear that my work helped ease your burden as you represent this nation in such an heroic way--putting yourself in harm's way is an unbelievably noble and selfless act. It also delights me to know that the very volume you read might have come directly from me. I have donated a number of books from my own home so that they could be sent to our troops in the field. For all we know, that edition of Serpents started in my hands and ended up in yours.

 

[Man of Steel]

David,

How a re you?

I was wondering if you would ever consider doing more Cruicible books for each TV Trek series?

 

[PhoenixIreland]

Its in the top 3 favourate ST books of mine.
I've read it twice already.

I know other novels helped Harriman develop but I liked seeing more exploration of his character I found it hard to beleive the guy we saw in generations would be the captain of the flagship and I think it may have been more to massage Kirks/Shatners ego that he was written that way.

It was also a fantastic concept to cover the "tomed incident" which turned a fleeting refrence into a very intresting story that filled a major gap between TUC and TNG, and it was done with some very good plot twists.

Definitne must read!

 

[Christopher]

As I've said before, there was nothing wrong with the way Harriman was written in Generations. He was only impotent because of the unconscionable lack of basic equipment the ship was sent out with, a situation he clearly wasn't happy with. He formulated a number of strategies that would've probably worked just fine if he'd had a fully equipped vessel, showing himself to be quick-thinking and imaginative. And when it came right down to it, he did the wisest, most responsible thing any commander could do: he put his ego aside and deferred to the more experienced commander. That is highly commendable and the mark of a man who can be trusted with power. (And really, how is it any different than what Kirk did five seconds later, asking Scotty to come up with a solution rather than doing it himself?) At worst, Harriman showed a certain lack of confidence, but aside from that I think he acquitted himself well.

 

[PhoenixIreland]

As I've said before, there was nothing wrong with the way Harriman was written in Generations. He was only impotent because of the unconscionable lack of basic equipment the ship was sent out with, a situation he clearly wasn't happy with. He formulated a number of strategies that would've probably worked just fine if he'd had a fully equipped vessel, showing himself to be quick-thinking and imaginative. And when it came right down to it, he did the wisest, most responsible thing any commander could do: he put his ego aside and deferred to the more experienced commander. That is highly commendable and the mark of a man who can be trusted with power. (And really, how is it any different than what Kirk did five seconds later, asking Scotty to come up with a solution rather than doing it himself?) At worst, Harriman showed a certain lack of confidence, but aside from that I think he acquitted himself well.

Interesting.
I had never thought of it like that.
I always figured they wrote him like that to either massage Shatners ego (nobody will ever be as good as me thing) or to show the Enterprise B crew as inept by comparason to the A crew.

 

[Christopher]

^^It's odd to read such petty motives into something as basic as structuring a story in such a way that the established hero, rather than the guest star, is the one to save the day. I mean, that's the way most stories are structured as a matter of course. Is it massaging Richard Dean Anderson's ego when SG-3 gets creamed by the bad aliens and SG-1 has to save the day? Is it massaging Sean Connery's or whoever's ego when Agent 004 is killed and 007 has to defeat the culprit? If the guest stars were able to save the day, there'd be no need for the hero. It's not about Shatner, it's about narrative structure in general.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I always figured they wrote him like that to either massage Shatners ego (nobody will ever be as good as me thing) or to show the Enterprise B crew as inept by comparason to the A crew.

If Harriman saved the day the audience would be wondering why Shatner was signed onto the film.

 

[PhoenixIreland]

I do not refer to the asking Kirk for help part, he was out of options and it was the mature thing to do.

But take for example the hesitancy and fumbling before he even asked to play the distress call.
They were clearly out to make Harriman look weak and inept.

I don't think it was nessicary to make him look that way for Kirk et al to be able to help.

 

[David R. George III]

^ I agree. For that reason, when I penned Serpents Among the Ruins, I asked myself what reasonably might have happened to cause Harriman to behave the way he did, and yet at the same time leave him truly qualified to command a starship. In the novel, I then explored the circumstances leading to the ill-fated maiden voyage of the Enterprise-B, and touched upon those circumstances again in The Star to Every Wandering.

 

[Sci]

^ I agree. For that reason, when I penned Serpents Among the Ruins, I asked myself what reasonably might have happened to cause Harriman to behave the way he did, and yet at the same time leave him truly qualified to command a starship. In the novel, I then explored the circumstances leading to the ill-fated maiden voyage of the Enterprise-B, and touched upon those circumstances again in The Star to Every Wandering.

And both you and Peter David (The Captain's Daughter) did an excellent job of exploring and clarifying and growing a character in Captain Harriman who is at once flawed and competent. The work you two did on his character made him truly worthy to be part of the pantheon of Enterprise captains.

 

[PhoenixIreland]

If you take an "in universe" look at it also.

There were news crews crawling all over the ship with cameras, how would the Captain of the flagship have come off to the public?

I can see headlines like "Inept new crew saved by seasoned heros"

Imagine a news crew in the white house situation room, the generals say NORAD is detecting a possible ICBM launch, and the president stares at the screen, waits a few seconds and then says "erm...em...countermeasures". It would be a disaster

The Star to Every Wandering.
Didn't know of that book untill now, will check it out

 

[Sci]

Imagine a news crew in the white house situation room, the generals say NORAD is detecting a possible ICBM launch, and the president stares at the screen, waits a few seconds and then says "erm...em...countermeasures". It would be a disaster

Oh, I dunno. A similar situation occurred in September 2001 and it didn't stop that President from getting back into the White House.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Imagine a news crew in the white house situation room, the generals say NORAD is detecting a possible ICBM launch, and the president stares at the screen, waits a few seconds and then says "erm...em...countermeasures". It would be a disaster

Oh, I dunno. A similar situation occurred in September 2001 and it didn't stop that President from getting back into the White House.

QFT.

 

[Deano2099]

Imagine a news crew in the white house situation room, the generals say NORAD is detecting a possible ICBM launch, and the president stares at the screen, waits a few seconds and then says "erm...em...countermeasures". It would be a disaster

Isn't that pretty much exactly how Bush reacted to the news of 9/11 though? Except it was minutes rather than seconds. Not trying to be all Bush-hating here and lets not argue over what he should and shouldn't have done. Just pointing out that with that in mind Harriman's reactions were somewhat realistic.

 

[KRAD]

The Star to Every Wandering.
Didn't know of that book untill now, will check it out

It's the third volume of the Crucible trilogy, the one focusing on Jim Kirk.

 

[PhoenixIreland]

Imagine a news crew in the white house situation room, the generals say NORAD is detecting a possible ICBM launch, and the president stares at the screen, waits a few seconds and then says "erm...em...countermeasures". It would be a disaster

Isn't that pretty much exactly how Bush reacted to the news of 9/11 though? Except it was minutes rather than seconds. Not trying to be all Bush-hating here and lets not argue over what he should and shouldn't have done. Just pointing out that with that in mind Harriman's reactions were somewhat realistic.

Well if I were him I'd have got up, whisperd to the teacher what had happened and that I had to leave, thank the kids calmly and tell them I had to go and when they watch the news later they would understand why, start giving orders for the land borders to be closed, aircraft grounded and rouge ones intercepted etc...get my ass to a secured location and make sure the line of succesion is likewise protected in case Im taken out...

but the offical story there is he didn't (even tho I say do it slowly and calmly) want to panic the country by charging out of the room suddenly, and that doing that would have looked worse as people might think the commander in cheif was panicking.

But in Bush's case there were othere people to give orders like grounding aircraft etc (it was the FAA that made that decision) so he had some defence for staying there (still a weak one in my opinion he should have considerd that he might be a target, thus was making that school one...and they did try to target him that very morning it's now thought with that "news crew")

but Harryman was a commander on a bridge the only one empowerd to make the decisions, akin to the commander of an aircraft carrier or something.
He, unlike a civilian, is supposed to be trained to calculate the situation and make decisions fast...not fumble

 

[Sci]

Imagine a news crew in the white house situation room, the generals say NORAD is detecting a possible ICBM launch, and the president stares at the screen, waits a few seconds and then says "erm...em...countermeasures". It would be a disaster

Isn't that pretty much exactly how Bush reacted to the news of 9/11 though? Except it was minutes rather than seconds. Not trying to be all Bush-hating here and lets not argue over what he should and shouldn't have done. Just pointing out that with that in mind Harriman's reactions were somewhat realistic.

Well if I were him I'd have got up, whisperd to the teacher what had happened and that I had to leave, thank the kids calmly and tell them I had to go and when they watch the news later they would understand why, start giving orders for the land borders to be closed, aircraft grounded and rouge ones intercepted etc...get my ass to a secured location and make sure the line of succesion is likewise protected in case Im taken out...

but the offical story there is he didn't (even tho I say do it slowly and calmly) want to panic the country by charging out of the room suddenly, and that doing that would have looked worse as people might think the commander in cheif was panicking.

But in Bush's case there were othere people to give orders like grounding aircraft etc (it was the FAA that made that decision) so he had some defence for staying there (still a weak one in my opinion he should have considerd that he might be a target, thus was making that school one...and they did try to target him that very morning it's now thought with that "news crew")

but Harryman was a commander on a bridge the only one empowerd to make the decisions, akin to the commander of an aircraft carrier or something.
He, unlike a civilian, is supposed to be trained to calculate the situation and make decisions fast...not fumble

I'd just like to point out that you're holding the commanding officer of a ship to a higher standard of decision-making capacity than you are an elected head of state.

 

[Christopher]

but Harryman was a commander on a bridge the only one empowerd to make the decisions, akin to the commander of an aircraft carrier or something.
He, unlike a civilian, is supposed to be trained to calculate the situation and make decisions fast...not fumble

I'd just like to point out that you're holding the commanding officer of a ship to a higher standard of decision-making capacity than you are an elected head of state.

No, I don't read that as holding them to a higher standard, just acknowledging that they're different situations -- a commander-in-chief has the luxury to think things over, while a commander on the scene has to be good at snap judgments.

I did say above that Harriman did exhibit a certain lack of confidence. My point was that, aside from that, he showed himself to be a capable commander, someone who could be a good captain given more seasoning -- not the utter incompetent he's often perceived to be.