Series 10 News Thread (Spoilers, naturally)

[The Wormhole]

It's not "worst, Period". Its the worst in your opinion, which is fine. I'd say that Love & Monsters and Fear Her are a lot worse. I also hated The Zygon Invasion/Inversion and Dark Water a lot more. As a bad episode, I consider In The Forest of the Night to be a middle of the road "bad" episode. Heck, there are episodes people love (like Human Nature/Family of Blood) that I consider worse then Forest. Its not even remotely good, but its not even the worst of the Capaldi era in my opinion, much less the worst of NuWho or Doctor Who in general. In my opinion, at least.

Love and Monsters is actually a pretty good episode that doesn't deserve the hate it gets, IMO. Fear Her definitely has room for improvement, and I do consider it one of the two truly lackluster episodes with little to redeem themselves from RTD's era. The Zygon Invasion/Inversion and Dark Water are pretty dire, the Zygon story for being so heavy-handed and preachy, Dark Water for the incessant Moffat Monologues. But I'll gladly watch any of them over Forest any day.

And I am of the opinion Human Nature/Family of Blood truly is one of the great masterpieces of all Doctor Who.

 

[kirk55555]

Like I said, its all opinion. I can think of a bunch of dreadful RTD episodes, and I liked his era a good deal. Love & Monsters to me, besides just being a bad idea done poorly, also has one of the most disturbing endings in Doctor Who history. I know its supposed to not be taken seriously, but there is some real horror over how that episode ended. Not that it would have been better with a different ending, but it might be a bit less memorably bad.

I also know a lot of people love Human Nature/Family of Blood. To me, its my most hated NuWho story. Its very close to being my most hated Doctor Who story overall, but there are a few classic Who stories that are bad enough to make it hard to pick an overall "winner". But, its all subjective. For example, I consider The Twin Dilemma to be decent overall, and I consider Delta and The Bannermen to be a Top Three 7th Doctor story (to be fair, I only like five of the 7th Doctor's stories, but still).

 

[Photoman15]

Nardol was okay in a one off but making him a regular, That's like trying to put Richard Pryor into a Superman movie.
Or Eddie Murphy as a marine biologist into a Star Trek movie. Just doesn't work.

 

[The Wormhole]

Like I said, its all opinion. I can think of a bunch of dreadful RTD episodes, and I liked his era a good deal. Love & Monsters to me, besides just being a bad idea done poorly, also has one of the most disturbing endings in Doctor Who history. I know its supposed to not be taken seriously, but there is some real horror over how that episode ended. Not that it would have been better with a different ending, but it might be a bit less memorably bad.

You mean because of an oral sex joke? While it's hardly a good joke, it's not disturbing, nor would I call it "real horror."

 

[DarthPipes]

RTD had some weak episodes but it wasn't until Moffat's era where I found myself utterly and completely bored with some of the episodes.

 

[kirk55555]

You mean because of an oral sex joke? While it's hardly a good joke, it's not disturbing, nor would I call it "real horror."

No, not the sex joke. The real horror is a woman being stuck as a face in a block of stone for the rest of her natural life. That's not something to laugh off with a sex joke, its terrifying. It honestly probably would have been better if The Doctor had just let her go. Yeah, the episode treats it like no big deal, but that's because its a horribly written episode. The woman now has to live her life as a face in a stone brick. she can't really go anywhere, do anything. Its like being quadriplegic, but probably worse.

You could say I'm over thinking it, but in the end Doctor Who isn't a parody or a farce. It can't just do horrible comedy and then you pretend it never happened. Even if the writer tried to pretend that everyone was fine with the outcome, becoming a face in a block of stone is something you'd expect a villain in old Who to do to someone. Its not just a slight change or inconvenience. She can't go out anywhere, even on the Earth of Doctor Who a face in a stone brick would freak people out and probably get UNIT involved. Her family would also freak. Her standard of living would probably be pretty low. After a few decades, or even a few years, I can't imagine her being particularly happy, if not a complete mental case. In old Who, this would be a terrible fate. In this horrible NuWho episode, its a bit of a problem but mostly just an excuse for a bad sex joke.

So, to me that's a pretty terrifying fate. I wouldn't even forgive this ending on a good episode, much less a terrible one.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I agree completely. Her fate strips her of her free will and it's laughed off with an inappropriate sex joke which raises the question of consent. It's a disgusting ending for the episode.

 

[TommyR01D]

It's odd that the gift of life which the Doctor gave to Ursula was so similar to the "prize" given to Borusa in The Five Doctors.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

It's odd that the gift of life which the Doctor gave to Ursula was so similar to the "prize" given to Borusa in The Five Doctors.

Maybe, then, that was the Doctor's revenge on the LYNDA group. He hated them ever since his fifth incarnation.

 

[The Wormhole]

No, not the sex joke. The real horror is a woman being stuck as a face in a block of stone for the rest of her natural life. That's not something to laugh off with a sex joke, its terrifying. It honestly probably would have been better if The Doctor had just let her go. Yeah, the episode treats it like no big deal, but that's because its a horribly written episode. The woman now has to live her life as a face in a stone brick. she can't really go anywhere, do anything. Its like being quadriplegic, but probably worse.

You could say I'm over thinking it, but in the end Doctor Who isn't a parody or a farce. It can't just do horrible comedy and then you pretend it never happened. Even if the writer tried to pretend that everyone was fine with the outcome, becoming a face in a block of stone is something you'd expect a villain in old Who to do to someone. Its not just a slight change or inconvenience. She can't go out anywhere, even on the Earth of Doctor Who a face in a stone brick would freak people out and probably get UNIT involved. Her family would also freak. Her standard of living would probably be pretty low. After a few decades, or even a few years, I can't imagine her being particularly happy, if not a complete mental case. In old Who, this would be a terrible fate. In this horrible NuWho episode, its a bit of a problem but mostly just an excuse for a bad sex joke.

So, to me that's a pretty terrifying fate. I wouldn't even forgive this ending on a good episode, much less a terrible one.

Oh, yeah when you put it that way it is a pretty twisted ending. I don't think it's enough to ruin the episode, but it is pretty twisted all the same.

 

[TommyR01D]

You've been absorbed into Peter Kay and shoved out of a paving slab but at least you can still fellate me!

 

[matthunter]

You've been absorbed into Peter Kay and shoved out of a paving slab but at least you can still fellate me!

To be fair, after the first two, anything seems ike a relief.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

It's not "worst, Period". Its the worst in your opinion, which is fine. I'd say that Love & Monsters and Fear Her are a lot worse.

Agreed. Those 2 are the worst.

"In the Forest of the Night" at least had a good performance from Capaldi.

I consider Delta and The Bannermen to be a Top Three 7th Doctor story (to be fair, I only like five of the 7th Doctor's stories, but still).

Oh my god, he's a crazy person! Recommending "Delta & the Bannermen" to other people? You're a danger to yourself and others!

Even if the writer tried to pretend that everyone was fine with the outcome, becoming a face in a block of stone is something you'd expect a villain in old Who to do to someone.

Agreed. Here's hoping this didn't give the Master any ideas. If you thought the TCE gun was bad...

 

[Starkers]

So with Series 10 finally starting shooting next Monday (20th of June) I thought it was time for a thread for all official news, set reports etc.

So to kick off with the big (?) news:
Matt Lucas is back as Nardole and not just as a guest star. Quoth the Moffat “Delighted and slightly amazed to be welcoming Matt Lucas back on to the TARDIS – and this time it’s not just for Christmas, he’s sticking around. One of the greatest comedy talents on planet Earth is being unleashed on all of time and space.”

Confirmed writers:
Moffat (4 episodes)
Mark Gatiss (Sigh)
Frank Cottrell-Boyce (Double Sigh)
Sarah Dollard
Mike Bartlett (Creator/writer of the very successful 'Doctor Foster')

I suppose the only thing I can say about Lucas is that he annoys me far less than Walliams. I don't see how he can come back given the last time we saw him he was just a head? I'm glad Dollard is coming back, I didn't watch Doctor Foster but clearly it was well received--then again being a good TV writer doesn't follow that you'll be a good Who writer (see Neil Cross for further details!) Gatiss is always worth having on board on the off chance he pulls another Crimson Horror or Cold War out of his head, and I guess it goes without saying Moffat would be writing I wonder if he's just doing the first two and the last two again?

20th June, surely.

As for Lucas as Nardol... Shit. This isMoffat's scorched earth policy, isnt it?

Maybe he wants Chibnall Who to immediately look better?

Oh, shit, yes! Sleep No More isn't really that bad an episode. The soldiers were kind of interesting and saved what would be a rather forgettable episode otherwise. But Forest of the Night, uggh. That was terrible, easily the worst of modern Who if not Who in general. Seriously, The Twin Dilemma has more to redeem it.

As for Nardole returning, I'm mostly ambivalent. He was alright in The Husbands of River Song, but I didn't see any potential for a return let alone becoming a regular. I'm not against the idea, though.

Yeah oddly I'm in the minority when it comes to Sleep No More. It's not great by any means but it kept me engaged for 42 minutes at least.

I agree, Forest of the Night is the worse episode of NuWho I ever seen. The Doctor has no real impact to the narrative, and Clara is out of character especially in a scene where she should be herself. Clara is still a heroine as far as I'm concerned and she should be hopeful.

That episode was so terrible on every level. London was deserted because, apparently, everyone did as instructed and stayed indoors. It was just woeful.

As for Love and Monsters I always think of it as the episode that showcases RTD at his absolute best and his absolute worst. The Jacqui Tyler stuff is wonderful, Elton and Ursula's romance is touching and in fact most of the LINDA stuff is quite lovely. Then you get the stupid alien farce of the first few minutes , Peter Kay (though in fairness I actually have more time for him than the last time I saw this so maybe I should give it a go, plus the Absorbaloff was kinda out of RTD's hands) and the worst bit which is the Doctor condemning Ursula to life as a paving slab. Seriously? This is the same Doctor who just four episodes earlier had killed a woman because life as a Cyberman was unconscionable yet suddenly life as a paving slab is just great. It's an utterly terrible concept, the blowjob gag is just icing on a very shitty cake.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Sleep No More is a great Halloween episode, for about 40 minutes. Then the tag scene to camera fucks it up royally.

 

[The Wormhole]

I suppose the only thing I can say about Lucas is that he annoys me far less than Walliams. I don't see how he can come back given the last time we saw him he was just a head?

In light of how many characters on the show who return after they're killed (*cough*especially in the Moffat era*cough*) is it really outside the realm of possibility that he could get a new body?

Or maybe they are just going to keep him as a head in the console room. If so, may I also suggest Dorium is long overdue to rerurn.

 

[Starkers]

I did wonder if he was going to just be Handles Mk2?

 

[Samurai8472]

Jenna sent flowers to Pearl

https://twitter.com/Pearlie_mack/status/744973813994110977

 

[Timby]

It's not "worst, Period". Its the worst in your opinion, which is fine. I'd say that Love & Monsters and Fear Her are a lot worse. I also hated The Zygon Invasion/Inversion and Dark Water a lot more. As a bad episode, I consider In The Forest of the Night to be a middle of the road "bad" episode. Heck, there are episodes people love (like Human Nature/Family of Blood) that I consider worse then Forest. Its not even remotely good, but its not even the worst of the Capaldi era in my opinion, much less the worst of NuWho or Doctor Who in general. In my opinion, at least.

A kids / family television show airing an episode with the message that going off your mental health medications can save the world is not only irresponsible but reprehensible.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

I'm glad Dollard is coming back, I didn't watch Doctor Foster but clearly it was well received--then again being a good TV writer doesn't follow that you'll be a good Who writer (see Neil Cross for further details!)

Neil Cross' episodes were OK. They both have great set-ups and interesting atmosphere. They both just have weak endings. "The Rings of Akhaten" has an ending that is an interesting concept but it's very talky & visually boring. The ending of "Hide" just feels rushed.

"Sleep No More" is actually one of the better Mark Gatiss episodes, IMO. I certainly prefer it over all of the daddy issues in "The Idiot's Lantern" & "Night Terrors." It also feels less cheesy & more polished than "Victory of the Daleks." And it has better pacing than "The Crimson Horror."