Sequel to 'The Menagerie'?

[Metryq]

It might shock you that some people have opinions that differ from your own.

Exactly, so don't take such comments personally. Three comics were mentioned that involve Talos IV. I was able to chase down electronic versions of two, and I bought the novel that was mentioned. Of those two comics that I read, the "Final Mission" story seemed to have very little meat on it.

Spoiler

There were some generic "transitional" elements between TOS and TMP, plus throw-away one-liners like the bit about miniskirts. Then we find out the Klingons have learned illusion-casting. Kirk pulls an uninspired maneuver—about like the number of movies that have a pilot pull the airbrakes in a dogfight to dupe his opponent—and then the story is over. There was nothing to the story, no developments or thought-provoking concepts. It was on a par with name dropping. Not very exciting. So the Talosians are involved. And? It's anticlimactic.

The vol. 2 #61 story had much more to offer, I just didn't find it compelling. Granted, comicbooks have certain constraints, so I'll cut that issue some slack. I'm hoping the novel Burning Dreams digs a lot deeper. The sequel should respect the original.

In "Return to Tomorrow" Kirk tries to pull moral superiority on Sargon by referring to Earth's age of nuclear weapons. Sargon gently puts him back in his place by explaining that his people survived their nuclear weapons, too, but that a crisis unimaginable to Kirk and company destroyed Sargon's world.

Should we then blithely imagine the Talosians' problems are so easy to understand and fix? They rose to incredible heights, then had a massive collapse. No one was left to support the technology, yet

Spoiler

Pike is just going to come along—worse than quadriplegic—and he's going to learn all their technology, fix it, and even best the reconstruction the Talosians did for Vina by fixing his own DNA and then artificially inseminating Vina? If all it took was one handyman, do you really think the entire Talosian civilization would have fallen?

In "The Cage" the Talosians wanted slaves who were bright enough to rebuild their world, yet not so bright they'd fall into the same brain trap. The Keeper told Pike his kind were too wild and uncontrollable. What changed since then?

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Of those two comics that I read, the "Final Mission" story seemed to have very little meat on it.

Spoiler

There were some generic "transitional" elements between TOS and TMP, plus throw-away one-liners like the bit about miniskirts. Then we find out the Klingons have learned illusion-casting. Kirk pulls an uninspired maneuver—about like the number of movies that have a pilot pull the airbrakes in a dogfight to dupe his opponent—and then the story is over. There was nothing to the story, no developments or thought-provoking concepts. It was on a par with name dropping. Not very exciting. So the Talosians are involved. And? It's anticlimactic.

Sorry it didn't work for you. Personally, I loved it. I love the concept of the Enterprise going back to Talos for its final mission under Kirk's command. and as for "developments or thought-provoking concepts," for me

Spoiler

the Klingons learning illusion-casting and Kirk's flashback with Edith Keeler

both count.

 

[Metryq]

Those things are just button-pushing to me. The new illusion masters could have harnessed some other new weapon, and it would have made no difference to the story.

Spoiler

The "thing most feared" felt like rehashing "And The Children Shall Lead," which was not one of Trek's more stellar episodes.

Perhaps "Final Mission" has nostalgic significance to you, or maybe there is something else about it you like. I'm a big fan of allegory. I like some stories that are simply "stuff happening," but I gravitate towards "concept" stories and allegory—something more than just the story.

Steven Gould's Jumper is a perfect example. (Ignore the horrible movie by that name, as it bears no resemblance to the novel.) A traumatized teen discovers that he has the ability to teleport at will. In the story, this becomes an allegory for his refusal to face life and its problems. When something becomes too uncomfortable, he jumps away. But the author also invented lots of really cool applications for the skill (concept stuff). It would have been boring if the character simply jumped from here to there.

Sure, teleporting is interesting in a twinkling phaser kinda way, but what does it mean? There's a sci-fi story where teleporting is commonplace, like phone booths. What does that do to society? (Concept stuff.) Oh, you might end up with "flash mobs." People see something happening on the news, and suddenly the town square has half a million people in it. We don't have teleporting, but the story is prescient of our always-connected world. That's the kind of story I might "highly recommend."

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Perhaps "Final Mission" has nostalgic significance to you, or maybe there is something else about it you like.

I've already explained several things I like about it. But if it didn't work for you, it didn't work for you.

 

[Zaku]

I also highly recommend "The Final Mission" in DC Comics' Star Trek Annual #2 by Mike W. Barr and Dan Jurgens. It tells the last story of the five-year mission of TOS, where Kirk and his crew are drawn back to Talos IV, only to discover that someone else has learned how the Talosians cast illusions...

How many "last stories" there are out there?!?

 

[Metryq]

How many "last stories" there are out there?!?

Probably just as many "first stories," and all highly recommended because of that fact, not because the stories actually do anything outstanding.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Probably just as many "first stories," and all highly recommended because of that fact, not because the stories actually do anything outstanding.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

How many "last stories" there are out there?!?

The only other one I can think of right now is a mini-series from IDW written by Ty Templeton. It started out with an early Enterprise mission with Gary Mitchell, Paul Kelso, and Dr. Piper, and then had Kirk returning with his crew at the end of the 5YM. It was okay but not great, IMO.

And VOY gave lip service to what could possibly be the last mission under Kirk in some throwaway dialogue, but that's open to interpretation if that was truly the last mission or just the end of that kid's report.

 

[publiusr]

Sargon gently puts him back in his place by explaining that his people survived their nuclear weapons, too, but that a crisis unimaginable to Kirk and company destroyed Sargon's world.

Shades of A Colder War perhaps?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Colder_War

Or this maybe?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Whisperer_in_Darkness

The first we see of a brain in a jar after all...

 

[wayne66]

I always liked the end of the episode where the Talosian was talking to Kirk about his future. I always felt there was a good story there. Something about Kirks destiny. Certainly the final episode of the original Star Trek with Captain Kirk should have involved the Talosians. The series would have come full circle.

 

[Metryq]

The Talosian Keeper did little more than wish Kirk well. There was nothing about "destiny." And if the final TOS episode involved the Talosians, I fail to see how that would make the series come "full circle." Am I missing some ideological or dramatic closure?

The Talosians had become the ultimate couch potatoes. Maybe a TNG episode about TREK fans watching "The Menagerie" while stuck in the Holodeck would bring about the full circle you seek.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

And if the final TOS episode involved the Talosians, I fail to see how that would make the series come "full circle." Am I missing some ideological or dramatic closure?

The Talosians were in the original pilot. What part of this is escaping you?

 

[Metryq]

The Talosians were in the original pilot. What part of this is escaping you?

It's called reading comprehension. I'm talking about how re-treading old ground is somehow coming "full circle." If "By Any Other Name" had been the last episode, I suppose it would also be "full circle" somehow because the story involves the same galactic barrier encountered in "Where No Man Has Gone Before," also a pilot episode.

"The Cage" established that Talosian civilization was a dead end. In "The Menagerie" Talos IV became an exotic retirement home for Pike. If Kirk retires there, too, would that be "full circle," or irony?

Spoiler

Forget DC's Volume 2 #61 where Pike is rebuilding Talosian civilization. Pike was completely immobilized from his injuries, and we already knew that the Talosian civilization had fallen so far that they could not repair their golden age machines—they didn't know how. The story glosses over how invalid Pike is able to rebuild machines and test-tube his own son.

Kirk's travels included Gary Mitchell, Charlie Evans, Metrons, Apollo, Trelane, Organians and Sargon, to name just a few of the god-like or demi-god-like entities. Of those, only the Organians appear to be a going concern, deftly overcoming their faults on the way up. Even Khan Noonian Singh, on this scale a mere notch "above" men like Kirk, was fatally flawed.

TOS was known for its depiction of a brighter future at a time when audiences were troubled by daily world events. The message was, "Mankind will survive this because the future is worth fighting for." ("Never give up, never surrender," in Capt. Taggart's words.) Trek was not a utopian future, just a hopeful future.

Now tell me again how going back to the twilight of Talos is coming "full circle," and not an anti-climactic disappointment.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

In "The Menagerie" Talos IV became an exotic retirement home for Pike. If Kirk retires there, too, would that be "full circle," or irony?

I don't know where you ever got the idea I was suggesting that Kirk should retire to Talos IV. All I said was that returning to Talos IV for the final mission was a neat idea.