Sequel to Star Trek 2009
- Thread starter NewAdventure
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PLEASE no remakes of old episodes!!!! no kahn. as has been said, that has been done. recurring characters, yes please, but let's not just do some variations on old plots, let's have some new plots. thank you!!
....and why is everybody so down on poor spock for finally getting some?? kirk didn't just bang his way across space, he actually seemed to think he fell in love with most of them. from my perspective the thing with uhura made sense, in that it was established they had strong mutual respect which, in a harsh situation, turned out to be deeper than that. why is that so hard to swallow? even original spock in TOS said that the 7-year cycle is not set in stone, and why would it be so awful for him to actually have some happiness? he's always had emotions, and it was painful to watch him internally hating himself for it. i don't see how coming to terms with them to some extent would make him in any danger of being emo, or anything stupid like that. he has always been an extreme character, and i would love to see him acquire a little equilibrium.
....and why is everybody so down on poor spock for finally getting some?? kirk didn't just bang his way across space, he actually seemed to think he fell in love with most of them. from my perspective the thing with uhura made sense, in that it was established they had strong mutual respect which, in a harsh situation, turned out to be deeper than that. why is that so hard to swallow? even original spock in TOS said that the 7-year cycle is not set in stone, and why would it be so awful for him to actually have some happiness? he's always had emotions, and it was painful to watch him internally hating himself for it. i don't see how coming to terms with them to some extent would make him in any danger of being emo, or anything stupid like that. he has always been an extreme character, and i would love to see him acquire a little equilibrium.
There might be some happy middle ground to be found in the idea of redoing something from the old show that wasn't actually depicted, only talked about in passing - I'm thinking of Garth of Izar, the legendary Starfleet captain whose exploits a hero-worshipping Kirk read about at the Academy, but before we saw him as a gold and silver boot-wearing loon lording it over a penal colony. The next movie could show us how the transporter accident that crippled him happened (maybe during battle with the Klingons at Axanar- yes, that would give us Klingons as well!); his ravaged body is found by shape-shifting aliens on the planet he beamed down to, and to save him they have to impart their metamorphic skills so that he can restore his form, but now he can also assume others. He is eventually rescued by his ship, and he resumes command, but the accident and his new powers have made him insane, and he starts a campaign of attack on real or imagined enemies, taking the Federation to the brink of war with its neighbours (there would be a mutiny onboard his ship, of course, but with some loyal officers siding with him; he could maybe use his new shape-changing skills to trick the mutineers into giving up and walking into a trap). The only ship in intercept range with Garth's rogue ship is of course the newly-minted Enterprise, with its newly-minted captain; what better test for this talented but inexperienced version of Kirk to prove himself, than to pit him against a far more experienced, nay legendary, captain, who is even more dangerous now that his morality and ethics have gone out the window along with his sanity?
I love Steve Inhat's portrayal of Lord Garth, but was always fascinated by the character's past, and his legendary status as one of Starfleet's finest captains. I was crushed with disappointment when the novel Garth of Izar filled in absolutely nothing of this backstory (Garth of Izar - sounds like a title, like the Prince of Wales; I always liked to think he was alien minor royalty, who like Prince Charles and the rest, had to do a spell in the navy). What a perfect opportunity for the new producers to honour the show's past, embellish on an already established character and yet also create something new. Forget bringing back Khan; he came back once already. Bring on Captain Garth- no, LORD GARTH!
I love Steve Inhat's portrayal of Lord Garth, but was always fascinated by the character's past, and his legendary status as one of Starfleet's finest captains. I was crushed with disappointment when the novel Garth of Izar filled in absolutely nothing of this backstory (Garth of Izar - sounds like a title, like the Prince of Wales; I always liked to think he was alien minor royalty, who like Prince Charles and the rest, had to do a spell in the navy). What a perfect opportunity for the new producers to honour the show's past, embellish on an already established character and yet also create something new. Forget bringing back Khan; he came back once already. Bring on Captain Garth- no, LORD GARTH!
Tops? Hardly. Star Trek's concepts for predicting the future are as of Trek XI - decades behind. What Star Trek has been good for is inspiring people. Rarely has it taken a lead in predicting the future, however. It has merely inspired others to create the future - consider all the men and women who became doctors or joined NASA - citing Trek as inspiration.
My STXII Idea:
Title: Strange New Worlds
Two (non Federation) planets at prolonged war attack each other with biological weapons. A horrible new disease spreads throughout both their populations, decimating them. Soon, the disease cannot be contained and is spread to other worlds via refugees and commerce, etc, and begins to effect Federation planets.
Starfleet medical believes that a cure can be found, but that it can only be synthesized from rare plants found in a largely unexplored sector of the galaxy, due to the unusual property of some stars in that region (plot device double-talk). The Enterprise is tasked with travelling to these "stange new worlds" and finding the exotic plant matter with this incredibly rare form of DNA, with which to make the cure/vaccine.
The disease is horrible, and can wipe out all sentient life in the universe, not just the Federation or Earth. Time is of the essense, and the cure MUST be found in time!
This is really only the Maguffin to get the new Enterprise crew onto some VERY exotic and yes, STRANGE new worlds, worlds like we have NEVER seen before in Star Trek, or anywhere else, for that matter. It is crucial that the Strange New Worlds are just that--STRANGE. Plant and animal types that have never been imagined before, planet atmospheres so unique and shockingly different that they boggle the mind, physical laws that possibly operate differently than anything we have seen up until now on any science-fiction planet. You name it, these worlds MUST have it to keep the audience spellbound and on the edges of their seats as the brave crew explores these weird planets and finds danger and surprises at every turn.
This could be--and must be--like nothing ever seen in any sci-fi film, much less a Trek film. The nature of the threat (bioweapons/pandemic) is ripped from todays newspaper headlines and could not be more topical or realistic. The audience will understand the threat and identify with the urgency of the crews mission, and we can have some continued character development and nice "moments" for each cast member as we move along in the story telling.
The art direction, visual effects and CGI must be convincing and as flawless as they are strange and shocking. "Realistically" genuinely alien is what they should go for. Make the audience gasp for breath in shock, awe, wonder and fear....................
Do it right, and you have a HUGE winner here....
Are you listening, JJ, Orci, Kurtzman, et al? Do it right! And do it big or go home.....
Title: Strange New Worlds
Two (non Federation) planets at prolonged war attack each other with biological weapons. A horrible new disease spreads throughout both their populations, decimating them. Soon, the disease cannot be contained and is spread to other worlds via refugees and commerce, etc, and begins to effect Federation planets.
Starfleet medical believes that a cure can be found, but that it can only be synthesized from rare plants found in a largely unexplored sector of the galaxy, due to the unusual property of some stars in that region (plot device double-talk). The Enterprise is tasked with travelling to these "stange new worlds" and finding the exotic plant matter with this incredibly rare form of DNA, with which to make the cure/vaccine.
The disease is horrible, and can wipe out all sentient life in the universe, not just the Federation or Earth. Time is of the essense, and the cure MUST be found in time!
This is really only the Maguffin to get the new Enterprise crew onto some VERY exotic and yes, STRANGE new worlds, worlds like we have NEVER seen before in Star Trek, or anywhere else, for that matter. It is crucial that the Strange New Worlds are just that--STRANGE. Plant and animal types that have never been imagined before, planet atmospheres so unique and shockingly different that they boggle the mind, physical laws that possibly operate differently than anything we have seen up until now on any science-fiction planet. You name it, these worlds MUST have it to keep the audience spellbound and on the edges of their seats as the brave crew explores these weird planets and finds danger and surprises at every turn.
This could be--and must be--like nothing ever seen in any sci-fi film, much less a Trek film. The nature of the threat (bioweapons/pandemic) is ripped from todays newspaper headlines and could not be more topical or realistic. The audience will understand the threat and identify with the urgency of the crews mission, and we can have some continued character development and nice "moments" for each cast member as we move along in the story telling.
The art direction, visual effects and CGI must be convincing and as flawless as they are strange and shocking. "Realistically" genuinely alien is what they should go for. Make the audience gasp for breath in shock, awe, wonder and fear....................
Do it right, and you have a HUGE winner here....
Are you listening, JJ, Orci, Kurtzman, et al? Do it right! And do it big or go home.....
boooring!
Yeah that's the problem - actual "exploration" is dull because what gets explored are the same old alien-world sets and the same old funny-forehead aliens, which are never very interesting in their own right because we've seen them all before, and despite the talent and hard work of the set designers, costumers, CGI people, makeup people and hairstylists, their creations aren't really what Trek is all about.
Trek has always been at its most compelling when it acknowledges it's really about Starfleet playing Space Solider and Space Cop, or just doing personal stories about the characters, or having them under attack by some alien virus or giant space ameoba.
The usual drill in TOS is this: about 20 seconds of some boring science thing happening (scanning an intriguing new nebula!) and then somebody starts shooting and the real story begins. ENT made the fundamental mistake of actually trying to do stories about exploration for the first time in Trek history, because Starfleet had no Space Solider or Space Cop mission, and the result is that everyone changed the channel because nobody is interested in space tourism to the alien planet soundstage of the week.
Trek has never really been about exploration at all, and it's high time we all just accept it. Exploration is what happens when the cameras aren't rolling.
Now I'll argue against myself and say I'd watch a show like this because unlike most people, I am interested enough in the talents of set designers, costumers, CGI people, makeup people and hairstylists, and I would watch just to see their wonderful and imaginative creations.
But I also know most people want to see shit blowed up real good, and pretty flowers and interesting forehead designs aren't going to feed the maw of the Nielsons Monster.
The monster that lunges at the crew and tries to rip them to shreds is what people will tune in for. But a monster is never going to be as interesting as recurring villains, and you certainly can't have monsters every frakkin' week, and then we're right back to the Klingons and Romulans and lunatics-taking-over-the-asylum basis for Trek, namely we're back playing Space Soldier/Space Cop.
The pretty planets just become pricey eye candy that isn't what holds the audience's attention, so it will be onscreen for about five seconds before the monster or the Klingons attack or something blows up real good, and then how can you justify the cost of the eye candy being elaborate or unique, if that's not what's keeping butts in seats? So it won't be, and it'll be the same old planets and funny forehead aliens that we're all bored to death of.
Lovely planets are expensive and useless; Klingons and monsters are far most cost-effective.
Forget Trek. Do a TV series that realistically portrays alien worlds with advanced CGI, explains in detail why the planets are being portrayed as they are, and put it on Discovery or the Sci Fi Channel and sell a lot of DVDs. Why bother with the expense of hiring actors or telling a story when your goal is to depict realistic, beautiful, amazing, scientifically accurate planets? There's a market for that, but it has nothing to do with what Trek is about. You need to focus on serving precisely that market to justify the expense of it. It won't increase the Trek audience enough to justify the expense of doing it.
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weeeeell.... that's partially right, i think. 'exploration' is what it's about in that without that, there would be no starfleet or anyone to shoot at. the alien planet soundstage of the week was there for the purpose of introducing the latest enemy, who would no doubt have strange alien powers. that's all lots of fun, and didn't often have anything to do with anyone shooting anything because the phasers would malfunction and they had to fight it out the old-fashioned way. a lot.
what got tiresome to me was the aliens always being sooooo much more advanced that they could control the crew with their minds, or whatever, and it became the plucky underdogs against the almighty alien force. repeatedly, ad nauseum. ick.
a more even fight would have so much more tension. OOH! how about a threat from within starfleet itself? some kind of treacherous maniac, who has not been revealed as either, who is messing with them from the inside? and they'd have to be fairly high-ranking, of course. and, i dunno, throw in some klingons out there making a ruckus as sort of a red-herring. is the SF baddie working with them? or not? cause really, in the TOS days the klingons were always hoping to get the upper hand over starfleet, so to have them try to do it again would not be much of a main story line. but it might function to get them in there and give it some context of space battles and suchlike.
OH! or how about the baddie is playing both sides, trying to get them to annhilate each other so (s)he can take over the galaxy? i am no writer, but it sounds like fun to me.
....just throwing ideas out there.
what got tiresome to me was the aliens always being sooooo much more advanced that they could control the crew with their minds, or whatever, and it became the plucky underdogs against the almighty alien force. repeatedly, ad nauseum. ick.
a more even fight would have so much more tension. OOH! how about a threat from within starfleet itself? some kind of treacherous maniac, who has not been revealed as either, who is messing with them from the inside? and they'd have to be fairly high-ranking, of course. and, i dunno, throw in some klingons out there making a ruckus as sort of a red-herring. is the SF baddie working with them? or not? cause really, in the TOS days the klingons were always hoping to get the upper hand over starfleet, so to have them try to do it again would not be much of a main story line. but it might function to get them in there and give it some context of space battles and suchlike.
OH! or how about the baddie is playing both sides, trying to get them to annhilate each other so (s)he can take over the galaxy? i am no writer, but it sounds like fun to me.
....just throwing ideas out there.
Well, (some) people have been asking for no mustache twirling villianweeeeell.... that's partially right, i think. 'exploration' is what it's about in that without that, there would be no starfleet or anyone to shoot at. the alien planet soundstage of the week was there for the purpose of introducing the latest enemy, who would no doubt have strange alien powers. that's all lots of fun, and didn't often have anything to do with anyone shooting anything because the phasers would malfunction and they had to fight it out the old-fashioned way. a lot.
what got tiresome to me was the aliens always being sooooo much more advanced that they could control the crew with their minds, or whatever, and it became the plucky underdogs against the almighty alien force. repeatedly, ad nauseum. ick.
a more even fight would have so much more tension. OOH! how about a threat from within starfleet itself? some kind of treacherous maniac, who has not been revealed as either, who is messing with them from the inside? and they'd have to be fairly high-ranking, of course. and, i dunno, throw in some klingons out there making a ruckus as sort of a red-herring. is the SF baddie working with them? or not? cause really, in the TOS days the klingons were always hoping to get the upper hand over starfleet, so to have them try to do it again would not be much of a main story line. but it might function to get them in there and give it some context of space battles and suchlike.
OH! or how about the baddie is playing both sides, trying to get them to annhilate each other so (s)he can take over the galaxy? i am no writer, but it sounds like fun to me.
....just throwing ideas out there.
in the next one, and the man vs. nature concept dovetails so nicely
with the "strange new worlds" idea I suggested. Throw them into such a weird and realistic environment on their quest to find something there (a cure), that their very survival and success there becomes the source of conflict and adventure--rather than the next Khan, or Shinzon or whomever.....could be different and satisfying and a pleasant surprise for the audience and critics alike....
No Khan. We have a "second movie" about Khan. Any attempt to bring Khan in as the villain in the next movie will be seen as rehashing. It's one thing to bring in iconic Star Trek characters and villains, but Khan's story is complete. Khan is done. The entire reason that they did this AU-Reboot is so that they could explore other stories.
No Borg. They were great in TNG, even with the Queen in FC. Voyager ruined them, and not only that, but overused them. And then they turned up on Enterprise. Please. Enough.
No Gary Mitchell. Let's face it, they missed their chance on this. There is no way that they could bring Gary in in the next movie and have the baggage between him and Kirk be believable. Worse, why do we have to rehash WNMHGB? We want fresh stories! If Gary is featured, he DOES NOT have to become a God, nor does Dr. Dehner (nor do we even need her!).
So, they go back and rewatch series Star Trek. What about Harry Mudd? The First Federation? What about the Organians? What can be done with the Klingons? The Romulans? How does Vulcan's destruction play with the existance of the Romulans? What can be done here? Bring in the Gorn. The Tholians. There's so much Star Trek that can be done in the next movie without rehashing or beating the fans up with that which has been done to death.
No Borg. They were great in TNG, even with the Queen in FC. Voyager ruined them, and not only that, but overused them. And then they turned up on Enterprise. Please. Enough.
No Gary Mitchell. Let's face it, they missed their chance on this. There is no way that they could bring Gary in in the next movie and have the baggage between him and Kirk be believable. Worse, why do we have to rehash WNMHGB? We want fresh stories! If Gary is featured, he DOES NOT have to become a God, nor does Dr. Dehner (nor do we even need her!).
So, they go back and rewatch series Star Trek. What about Harry Mudd? The First Federation? What about the Organians? What can be done with the Klingons? The Romulans? How does Vulcan's destruction play with the existance of the Romulans? What can be done here? Bring in the Gorn. The Tholians. There's so much Star Trek that can be done in the next movie without rehashing or beating the fans up with that which has been done to death.
^ I'd like to see Harry Mudd. Not necessarily as the villain, but maybe as a side character that Kirk and Co. encounter that propels them on their mission.
I think there could be a way to get both an "evil" antagonist and do the exploration thing.
Idea: Kirk and Co. encounter Mudd doing something illegal. Mudd mentions something about "Mysterious Space Thing". Starfleet seems interested, so they send Enterprise to see "Mysterious Space Thing". Also, the Klingons (or another villain) learn of "Mysterious Space Thing" and want it too. Hijinks ensue.
I think there could be a way to get both an "evil" antagonist and do the exploration thing.
Idea: Kirk and Co. encounter Mudd doing something illegal. Mudd mentions something about "Mysterious Space Thing". Starfleet seems interested, so they send Enterprise to see "Mysterious Space Thing". Also, the Klingons (or another villain) learn of "Mysterious Space Thing" and want it too. Hijinks ensue.
Unfortunately, if you change Harry Mudd to Cervantes Quinn, you've basically given us the premise for Vanguard.
That said, you're absolutely right that Mudd doesn't have to be "the mustache twirling villain," and that he could be a great side character on what ever mission the Enterprise is on.
That said, you're absolutely right that Mudd doesn't have to be "the mustache twirling villain," and that he could be a great side character on what ever mission the Enterprise is on.
I tells 'ya, it should be the "man vs. nature" type of conflict, with no main heavy or "bad guy". STIV:TVH had the right idea here--and it was wildly popular and a fan favorite, and even brought "non-trekkies" into the theaters to see it due to the positive word of mouth interest that it generated.
Let the "Strange New Worlds" concept supply all the danger and conflict that the story needs.....it'll be a winner, mark my words....
Let the "Strange New Worlds" concept supply all the danger and conflict that the story needs.....it'll be a winner, mark my words....
-actor Simon Pegg (Scotty)
That would be December 2010.
Add in another 4 months for visual effects and marketing and we'll probably see Spring 2011.
Original SOURCE
June 30, 2009
picked up by Trekweb
You're probably right. I loved the new movie--and Nero, but to me, he sort of came off as "Khan Lite". That's the problem with always running back to a new villian for each successive new Trek movie. They are either too weak (Kruge, Shinzon, M'ofo (!), or whatever his name was from Insurrection, Sybok, Soran), or just a bad mistake (V'ger). I only ever really liked Montalban's Khan and Plummer's General Chang. The Borg Queen was decent, too.
I think an impersonal type of crisis or a natural catastrophe of some kind is the way to go--that way people cannot say "well, he/she/it was okay.....but they were no Khan Singh...."
Oh Starfleet should still think of itself as an idealistic exploratory organization (while the aliens fume about the hypocrisy of it all, because to them "exploration" looks like "imperialism"). But the part that gets the stories made about it is when Exploration Goes Terribly, Terribly Wrong. Maybe 90% of the time everything turns out okay but that's not the part that's interesting to us.
Works for me, but this is the part where people start carping about the Section 31 idea of conflicts within Starfleet = Starfleet isn't the purely idealistic exploratory organization that some fans insist that it be.
Personally I'm willing to give drama from any source a chance. And if that source means that Starfleet has feet of clay, I won't reject it out of hand. Star Trek can have shades of grey - it just should stop well short of BSG-dom, simply so that it doesn't lose the "boundaries" that define it as Star Trek and not something else.
That story isn't about exploration. It's about stopping a threat. That's why I keep saying that Star Trek isn't really about exploration at all. It's about fighting and managing threats, which sometimes are discovered in the course of exploration, and sometimes not. Which is why complains about Star Trek war stories are so off target. Even when Star Trek isn't "about a war," it's about the stuff that makes up wars (fighting and managing threats) so why quibble about semantics?
Cold War vs. the Klingons which spills over into the occasional hot war. Sure, that's a good idea for a story as well. Back to the basics.
