Small world. December 7 is my brothers birthday too.
September 11th, 2001--Memorial Thread
- Thread starter Nerys Ghemor
- Start date
Small world. December 7 is my brothers birthday too.
Rii
Rear Admiral
It's an admirable sentiment, but - and I don't mean this as a personal criticism - also a presumptuous one, like an acquaintance of your mother's claiming that he 'shares your pain' at her passing.
It's part of a broader pattern of behaviour too; one that I think Americans are, for the most part, remarkably tolerant of. But in this case, they shouldn't have to be. Indeed, I'd go so far as to suggest that non-Americans probably shouldn't be in this thread.
Of course, that's just one view from someone who has more than a few odd ideas about social propriety.
Non-Americans lost friends and family, too. People came from many countries, who worked in those buildings or were on those planes--they weren't all natural-born US citizens.
But overall--I think when people say things like that, they are trying to express something that it is very hard to find the words for. That doesn't stop it from being meaningful.
But overall--I think when people say things like that, they are trying to express something that it is very hard to find the words for. That doesn't stop it from being meaningful.
listen, i know more than a few americans. and i know how they reacted. now add my psy. training to that, and i still cant comprehend exactly what kind of impact it had on them. i'm not saying i "share their pain". i'll never be able to. all i'm saying that the 9/11 attack made its way to europe and we do care and feel about the 3000 dead. believe it or not. and if the americans want to kick us out of this thread. i'm fine with that. it their prerogative. but i my opinion its not right.
oh, and in case you think i dont know what i'm talking about, my friends brother was there.
couldn't have put it better myself
Rii
Rear Admiral
Not to put too fine a point on it, but from a 'cost in human lives' perspective 9/11 scarcely nudges the dial even in the context of the 24hrs of September 11th, 2001; let alone the decade hence. In human terms it is (or rather, should be) of significance only to those who lost their lives in the attack and their families, and those in the immediate vicinity (i.e. New York City) whose lives were directly affected by the events.
The significance of 9/11 beyond that - that is to say, to the majority of folks here - is symbolic, and that is largely national in character.
I agree, and (unlike certain moderators in this thread) I'm not trying to impugn anyone here. My discomfort is with the sentiment itself, one which I've observed many manifestations of over the years: a kind of implicit ownership claim, whether intended or not. It's a subtle thing, but I don't think that puts it above criticism.
Of course we don't. We appreciate your presence and your support.
Kicking non-Americans out for caring is the last thing that would make any sense to me, as an American.
I also think that while some of the losses are of a peculiarly American character insofar as they are connected to our history and culture, that compassion is not a trait restricted to national borders. I don't want to bring in specific examples because this thread has only one purpose, but I can assure you that is true.
I also think that while some of the losses are of a peculiarly American character insofar as they are connected to our history and culture, that compassion is not a trait restricted to national borders. I don't want to bring in specific examples because this thread has only one purpose, but I can assure you that is true.
Indeed. I know very few victims of the Holocaust but I still feel it is a terrible atrocity. Same goes for the London, Madrid, and Moscow terrorist attacks we've seen in recent years.
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Nardpuncher
Rear Admiral
It would be silly to draw lines as to who can feel bad about 9/11.
What if we limit it to only New Yorkers? Obviously then we can all feel horrible about that day.
I'm Canadian and on Saturday at the gym I used a stair mill ( sort of like a stair machine, but harder as it's like a mini-escalator) and did 91 floors, in honor of the poor firfighters that hauled ass to the impact area on the North tower.
What if we limit it to only New Yorkers? Obviously then we can all feel horrible about that day.
I'm Canadian and on Saturday at the gym I used a stair mill ( sort of like a stair machine, but harder as it's like a mini-escalator) and did 91 floors, in honor of the poor firfighters that hauled ass to the impact area on the North tower.
A
Amaris
Guest
Absolutely. We shouldn't decide that we don't care simply because we don't live in that city, we don't live in that state, we don't live in that country. It's silly to reprimand people for having empathy and compassion, for caring about someone other than themselves. Some people complain that since many of us weren't in New York when it happened, we have no place to mourn after ten years, and I find that utterly ridiculous. It's as if they don't want to share that pain with others, and it's not right to exclude someone because they didn't live within sight of the WTC.
Agreed. We're all human beings, and one of our traits is the ability to share and feel the pain of others. It becomes a part of our collective consciousness, a part of our human history. To deny others that same right because of artificial lines on a map, that's just not right.
It's a different kind of pain, depending on how you experienced it, but it's still pain and means something to that person.
Yeah. When this happened back then, even Boston of all places, showed some NY love. I saw a sign at a Redsox game at Fenway Park which said something like "Boston Loves New York". Now how often do you see THAT?
A
Amaris
Guest
Exactly.
Yeah. When this happened back then, even Boston of all places, showed some NY love. I saw a sign at a Redsox game at Fenway Park which said something like "Boston Loves New York". Now how often do you see THAT?
I'll wager on the side of just about never.
^ Remember that Mets/Braves game I was talking about (on Sept. 21) - they even had the players from both teams mingling on the field right before the game, with handshakes, fistbumps, hugs, etc. I always wondered if that would still have happened if the game had been Yankees/Red Sox.
Of course it's not exactly the same thing, since with all the Yanks/Sox rivalry over the years, the *players* rarely hate each other. In fact you often see them joking around with each other on the field. It's the fans that are blood enemies, it seems.
(And in that case, the rivalry goes beyond the teams - New York and Boston *themselves* are dead rivals. That goes all the way back to the Revolutionary war, since Boston was hardcore revolutionary, and New York had a large Loyalist population)
Of course it's not exactly the same thing, since with all the Yanks/Sox rivalry over the years, the *players* rarely hate each other. In fact you often see them joking around with each other on the field. It's the fans that are blood enemies, it seems.
(And in that case, the rivalry goes beyond the teams - New York and Boston *themselves* are dead rivals. That goes all the way back to the Revolutionary war, since Boston was hardcore revolutionary, and New York had a large Loyalist population)
A
Amaris
Guest
That's true. The players rarely hate one another. For most of them, they know they're just professional ball players no different from one another (except perhaps in ability), and regard each other as such.
I'm not big on memorial threads. Never have been. But do you think, maybe, you could NOT turn a 9/11 thread into a baseball discussion? How much 9/11 impacted a fucking Mets game is so low on why it was a disaster that I can't even figure out where it would list. You bring up baseball all the time. Cool. You love it. I get it. But could you, please, just leave out of this thread? If you love NYC as much as you claim to then I'd think you'd not turn a thread about one of the greatest catastrophes to hit it into a discussion on how the Mets, Braves, Red Sox and Yankees behave towards one another. It's a game. 9/11 was a disaster. Priorities.
I'm not attacking him. I'm raising a concern of mine. An attack would be if I just posted a list of curses and insults which, if you read back, I did not do.
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