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Sentient species and brain structure

Nerys Ghemor

Vice Admiral
Admiral
Hey, I was wondering if you guys could help me with a "plausibility check" for an idea I was trying to put into a fanfic. I am thinking this species description, if plausible, could explain something we saw in a TNG episode that otherwise does not make a whole lot of sense.

Basically, what I'm envisioning is a species where the brain is so biased towards a different form of language processing that the comprehension of speech sufficient for it to be the species' primary language is simply not possible. In this species, the analogue to the centers that we use for auditory processing would appear as primitive, perhaps, as those existing in a house cat...capable of sorting sounds, but not so good at attaching linguistic meaning to sounds and holding that in the memory.

However, another center of the brain--perhaps the visual cortex--is beyond our own capabilities and would allow for a very rapid uptake with visual information and the coupling of what is visually displayed to language. The way I imagine them, this species could very rapidly learn sign languages, and from there, be able to read quite capably (possibly at greater speeds than humans could manage without losing details), but even though they hear relatively well, would not really be able to process or produce speech all that well and for effective communication, would require a translation device that would display spoken information as text or sign.

There is no reason said species, in my opinion, has to be voiceless--they may have the organs to produce speech, and may use sound as an additional means of emotional expression, as well as basic signaling, but this would not develop into language. I'm figuring that to said species, this sort of use of the voice wouldn't seem any more odd or unusual than the way humans subconsciously "color" their speech with gestures.

At least, unless you had some sort of invasive meddling by another species...I could see a species that wanted slave labor demanding speech, and perhaps getting it in some limited fashion (these people might not be wired for speech, but they're not stupid either, and would do their damnedest to avoid getting killed). If this invasion went far enough, if they destroyed the non-spoken language these people had before the invasion...well, I think you could be looking at some VERY devastating results, not just including major societal disruption and the toll it would take on individuals (who are kept back quite dramatically from their full potential), but cultural destruction so severe it makes even the Cardassian Occupation look minimal. I mean, even in a Neolithic technological state, our species in question could certainly have many rich systems of belief and stories, and certain forms of art, which would all be irrevocably destroyed by what the invaders did. All it would take would be one generation that cannot pass this information to the next to break the myriad cultures that might've existed on this world pre-invasion.

Now imagine our invaders withdrawing and leaving their former slaves to fend for themselves. This slavery has lasted for generations, perhaps, and by now all memory of who these people were before is gone. And perhaps these generations no longer even have a memory of the way they once communicated--just the speech that their conquerors demanded. They have skills they learned from their conquerors by observation, but the society is severely disrupted.

Take this and I think we MIGHT have a plausible explanation of the Pakleds.
 
Well, which TNG episode are you referencing? I recall in the TOS novel Dreadnought it was said that Vulcans had evolved a sort of "subdivided" brain that could mentally accommodate multiple tasks at once, and presumably also helped with their emotional control.
 
Believe it or not--"Samaritan Snare."

BTW, I think I may have been editing this post while you were reading it, so you may want to refresh it to pick up the new material.
 
I could buy that.

A developed system of hand signals would have some advantages over speech--silence--but also great disadvantages--a line-of-sight requirement.

I'm also not sure that a manual language could develop the same vocabulary as a spoken one. I tried to look up how many words ASL has in its vocabulary, but couldn't find any number--but English, apparently, has something around 500,000. Granted, this is modern English, and early languages probably had not much more than 10,000 words, which a manual language could easily reach. I might be way off about the possible richness of a manual language as well, but afaik there are not signs for "photosynthesis," "boson," or "respondeat superior."

Once the written word is invented, of course, the playing field is basically even. Telephones would be a bit of a waste of time, however. Music would presumably remain instrumental.

Personally, I'm all for rehabilitating the Pakleds somehow. I always kind of figured them as simply having poor verbal communications, but reckoned that their intelligence in other areas was close to human regardless. It could even be that their global language is simply vocabulary-poor, and the UT just doesn't really get that Pakleds can understand each other well enough despite lacking the specificity that English has (it's certainly less inefficient than every damned action being illustrated by some archaic idiom; I'll take "we look for things to make us go" over "Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra" any day). I wouldn't put it past a species whose languages have 20,000 words isntead of 500,000 to still be reasonably bright. I mean, there are a lot of languages on Earth that don't have anything close to the number of words English has. The size of our vocabulary certainly doesn't hurt, but I'm not convinced it's a prerequisite for intellectual progress...
 
I think that while some of the technical stuff does end up being fingerspelled in ASL, manual languages can be quite inventive, and come with their own idioms and so on.

I would say, though, that if we postulate a brain with superior visual-tracking capability than our own (and probably better sight, period), plus greater manual dexterity, you might be able to introduce a language with greater subtlety and you might well get the ability to do stuff like distinguishing signs in much finer ways than a human could, and shade them with different meanings in ways that a human sign-language user might have trouble with.

If you have superior sight and visual-processing capability, you at least solve the distance problem to some degree (they could pick out signs at a distance we'd have trouble with), and I'm postulating that the voice COULD still serve a general "HEY! OVER HERE!" type function. Since we're dealing with a hearing species, total silence should not be required or even expected. The voice is there; I can still see it being used in the tonal/emotional capacity. (I mean, look at how expressive a human's laugh is, and how it helps us to connect to each other--and all without words. There is no reason things like laughter should disappear.)

Oh, and as to the English vocabulary--I'm pretty sure English has an obnoxiously-sized vocabulary thanks to William Shakespeare and our tendency to steal words from every other language like a bunch of magpies. As the rest of the world demonstrates, it is perfectly possible to do sophisticated, technological things without 500,000 words.

Now, had we not had the disruption from the invaders I described, I imagine that this species would've had some things occur more quickly (i.e. the printing press, the telegraph, and camera, the silent film), and then had a bit of a technological plateau since they'd probably wish to go straight from this basically 19th-century stage of technology to image transmission. (Then again, given the strong incentives there would be for developing said technology, I could be wrong and it might well happen quite a bit quicker.)
 
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While English may have half a million words, most people have a vocabulary of a fraction of that. As a general rule, you need to know about a thousand words to speak a language well, if not fluently, and 2 to 3 times that to read it. A native English speaker probably doesn't use more than 5,000 words.

As for the Pakleds, I get what the OP is going for. I think, however, the intent of the Pakleds was to show Neanderthals in space. A species not only culturally and technologically unready for star faring, but evolutionary as well. I think a better explanation, though feel free to ignore me OP since you're writing your own story, is a planet with 2 sentient species. One is Homo Sapien-ish, the other Neanderthal-ish (Pakleds). The Sapiens are advanced, with warp ability, and more importantly the ability to create advanced technology based on abstract theoretical thinking. The Pakleds, being not as evolved, aren't necessarily stupid (they sure as hell tricked the Enterprise well enough), but lack certain conceptual abilities. They can't imagine a new warp drive, because warp physics is beyond them. They can, however, build or maintain a warp drive already designed. They can't design a phaser, but they can sure use one.

It's the difference between an aeronautical engineer, and the guy on the tarmac doing engine teardowns. The mechanic's work is no less esoteric, he can even (on occasion) suggest improvements that were overlooked by the engineer. The work is just less abstract, more hands on, a tradecraft.

Story-wise, you can take that a few different ways. You can either use the Pakleds as a slave underclass to elite Sapiens, or have the Pakleds as a niche race that is voluntarily employed. Have the Pakleds receive warp drive as a gift from their benefactor race, or have a bloody upheaval where they take warp and the lives of their masters. Dual races is something not very well explored by Trek. You have Dear Doctor, but I think that episode was a lot more ham-fisted than what it could have been, by trying to shoehorn in pseudo-prime directive dilemmas.
 
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Which part, specifically? I added a few extra paragraphs to my last post, which added quite a few extra points.
 
I meant the stuff about the average number of different words that the usual English-speaker would use. I love that kind of language-geek stuff, and would love to read it. :D

I do think you have an interesting scenario and I think it is a very valid one, although it's not the one I would go for personally. I'd still read it if someone wrote it into a story, though. :)

What I'm looking at is more a case where the aptitude to conceptualize as we do is likely there, but not properly tapped. My thought is, if there is so little expressive language remaining to these people, yet so much is still able to be transmitted presumably just by watching (kind of an apprenticeship system)--at least so they have gotten this far without killing themselves, that the mind behind it has to be far ahead of the language. Being able to do mechanical work just by watching--even though the verbal explanation isn't very good--suggests a mind that is actually catching onto things very quickly. My thought was that there is even further potential that could be released.

At least personally, I can't see that degree of intellect evolving without SOME sort of advanced expressive capacity--which is what led me to the idea that rather than being less evolved, they were just very different from us and that some outside force interfered and pushed things in a direction they were oh so NOT meant to go.

And personally...I am not the biggest TNG fan, and I love the idea of having it eventually be found out that they let their assumptions get the best of them and as much as they pride themselves on learning about other life forms, never actually dug to find out what the truth was. (Troi did try to suggest otherwise, but Riker and LaForge pretty much ignored this until they got blindsided.) I just love the idea, at least for my own work, of Picard delivering that holier-than-thou lecture only to be flat wrong in the end. ;)



That said, however, for a different premise entirely, I think your story would also be pretty awesome--and like I said, I'd read it. :D
 
I meant the stuff about the average number of different words that the usual English-speaker would use. I love that kind of language-geek stuff, and would love to read it. :D

It's not just English, though it's probably the best example as it has more words in it than just about any other language. However, while there's a good 50,000+ native Spanish words, most speakers can get by with 600, and can read a newspaper knowing only 2,000. Mathematics (which really is a language) has hundreds of symbols and constants, but you can do most common calculations with a half dozen (+,-,*,/,=,pi).

What it boils down to, and using myself as an example, how often do you need to use words like "esoteric" in every day speaking? And do you really need to use it, or can you just substitute it for another word, or a phase composed entirely of common words.

I do think you have an interesting scenario and I think it is a very valid one, although it's not the one I would go for personally. I'd still read it if someone wrote it into a story, though. :)
Like I said, it's your story. You have full rights to do whatever you want with. If you can pull your idea off, I shall salute you, good sir.

That said, however, for a different premise entirely, I think your story would also be pretty awesome--and like I said, I'd read it. :D
I never watch the first season either.
 
I would be the person guilty of using a word like "esoteric" in the middle of regular conversation. My problem is that when I do latch onto that "right word," breaking it down into simpler terms either does not occur to me or kinda throws me for a mental loop that can be rather distracting.

But what I would love to see are studies on what words are necessary. I'm not doubting you because I've heard that conclusion before and I know already it's valid. I just enjoy reading studies. ;)

As for pulling off the story, only time will tell! :D
 
While English may have half a million words, most people have a vocabulary of a fraction of that. As a general rule, you need to know about a thousand words to speak a language well, if not fluently, and 2 to 3 times that to read it. A native English speaker probably doesn't use more than 5,000 words.

5000 words is absolutely paltry. I wouldn't be surprised if this thread has over 5000 unique words, and the forum as a whole in the range of 20,000. You'd be lucky to order dinner with a vocabulary of 5000. At least I was, as my Spanish vocabulary is in the same order of magnitude, roughly on par with Basil Fawlty's.:(

As for the Pakleds, I get what the OP is going for. I think, however, the intent of the Pakleds was to show Neanderthals in space. A species not only culturally and technologically unready for star faring, but evolutionary as well. I think a better explanation, though feel free to ignore me OP since you're writing your own story, is a planet with 2 sentient species. One is Homo Sapien-ish, the other Neanderthal-ish (Pakleds). The Sapiens are advanced, with warp ability, and more importantly the ability to create advanced technology based on abstract theoretical thinking. The Pakleds, being not as evolved, aren't necessarily stupid (they sure as hell tricked the Enterprise well enough), but lack certain conceptual abilities. They can't imagine a new warp drive, because warp physics is beyond them. They can, however, build or maintain a warp drive already designed. They can't design a phaser, but they can sure use one.

It's the difference between an aeronautical engineer, and the guy on the tarmac doing engine teardowns. The mechanic's work is no less esoteric, he can even (on occasion) suggest improvements that were overlooked by the engineer. The work is just less abstract, more hands on, a tradecraft.

Story-wise, you can take that a few different ways. You can either use the Pakleds as a slave underclass to elite Sapiens, or have the Pakleds as a niche race that is voluntarily employed. Have the Pakleds receive warp drive as a gift from their benefactor race, or have a bloody upheaval where they take warp and the lives of their masters.
This is the Klingon origin story, isn't it?:shifty: I always wondered why the Hur'q didn't nuke them from orbit.
 
I kind of played around with the idea of my custom Trek race having different castes, since they're insectoid. They also have translation issues when it comes to vocalization, due to the biological differences. I think there would be some challenges integrating them into the Federation.
 
That's one thing that irked me in a couple of Trek episodes, actually. Ambassador Riva sure ran into a lot of problems with a supposedly enlightened Federation, didn't he? And the same insistence with the Cairn, that they must speak to become members of the Federation, to the point of having an artificial larynx surgically implanted. I never got why they didn't simply use sign language instead of doing an invasive surgery. Yes, most humanoids speak, but you would think that technology would make this much less of a dividing issue than it is today...
 
What sort of problems are you referring to that Riva encountered? Admittedly, it's odd that nobody informed Picard of his unique method of communication, given his previous work for the Federation. :D I don't recall the Cairn being told they have to communicate vocally either, but I haven't watched "Dark Page" in a long while. I just think that was the crew's preference, because Troi was the only crew member who could communicate in a manner the Cairn were familiar with.

In the case of my race, some of it just has to do with differences in culture. Unlike the caste system on a planet like Bajor, which was clearly biased and discriminatory, in this case it's simply a fact of their biology. Their culture does have some practices which other races might find odd or unsettling; they approve of bounty hunting (which is considered as valid as other professions) but do not tolerate piracy.
 
As for Ambassador Riva, it was very odd indeed that no one knew about his method of communication and that they were caught so unprepared.

Well, in "Dark Page," there was actually this line in the script, according to Trekcore...and the way Lwaxana (of all people!) phrases it, I'm not sure it sounds that "optional."

LWAXANA
It's actually a very efficient way
of communicating. If two Cairn
were having this conversation it
would have been over minutes ago.

This gets Picard's attention.

PICARD
Really?

LWAXANA
But of course they realize they'll
want to communicate verbally if
they join the Federation.
(beat)
Do me a favor... introduce
yourself to one of them and engage
him in conversation -- they need
the practice.

PICARD
I'd be happy to.
 
Here's an idea: a sentient species that communicates the same way cuttlefish do by way of chromatophore-like cells. They might have poorly adapted auditory skills but be able to communicate rapidly and in a much different way than auditory syllables do. You could communicate a paragraph worth of information in a visual flash.
 
My custom species actually has that sort of thing, being insectoid, as part of their biology. There's one race in Star Wars (EU anyway), the Lorrdians, who have evolved the ability to mimic just about any sort of vocalization they hear and/or body language, as well as a unique form of body language through which they can communicate nonverbally. This trait stems from a time when they were enslaved by another culture and forbidden to speak under penalty of death, and they refer to their unique body language as "kinetic communication." Genetically the Lorrdians are little different from normal humans.
 
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