Seekers #1 -- What a disappointment!

[Nathan]

Coming off the high of Vanguard, I couldn't wait to bite my teeth in the Seekers series. All I can say it was stale.

I still have a beef with the ship's complement. I don't know how they run 24 hr operations on a ship with such few people.

Yeah, yeah, you can use the plot ploy of "the computer is automated"....but out in deep space, near enemy territory, I don't want to rely on the computer. Also, when there is a landing party (like in the case of this book), who handles their duties while they are way, it seems there isn't a enough bodies to go around.

Ok...ok....its a nitpick, so I'll just assume they can get by with such a small complement.

I was glad that there weren't any weird characters -- like the Titan characters -- Water girl, dino doc, the 2 ft tall Lilo 'n' Stitch dude. -- I don't thing any of those characters could function on an Archer Class ship as the ship is tiny and can't cater to the special needs.

So....reading about the characters from the series bible, I was initially stoked, not all humans, some popular aliens and some obscure ones, but no one that is just nutty (like in NF series)

However, everyone seemed so cookie cutter. I don't know if Mack only had so many pages to introduce us to the characters and get the story moving along. Did he have to introduce thoroughly to EVERYONE?

Harbinger, one of my favorite books, did an outstanding job on introducing us to the new canvas. Seekers just full flat. I guess some of the characters had some quirks, which I am cool with, but introducing us to all the characters made it seems I really got to know no one at all.

I will say I did enjoy Clark Terrell the best, I did enjoy the B-story (if you want to call it that), -- the S/L with Terrell dealing with the Klingons.

The planet side story just sucked.

Anyway, not giving up on the series, perhaps I had the bar to high.

 

[Idran]

Just to address your nitpick: While I don't know a ton about ship operations, for what it's worth, a Marine Protector-class USCG patrol ship only has 10 people onboard and it's out for a few days at a time so it must be able to manage 24h operations for at least a period.

 

[Nathan]

Idran,

I got no problem if the ship is out for a week, maybe a month with such few people, but I get the impression the Archer class is out for a longer period of time.

You gotta be exhausted running at full throttle like that. And yeah, we could say for the humans (as it is sketchy how much sleep/rest the other species require), after a month working a zillion hours, you got have time to decompress. Even if all the crew members were "psychologically fit" to run at that pace, even they can't operate at periods like that.

In a previous life when I was patrolling the hills of Afghanistan, we'd be on patrol at maybe a week -- 10 days max, before we were pulled in for a day or two off to recuperate.

 

[Timo]

Isn't a big point of Trek-style spaceflight that it's 90% boredom and 9% more boredom, until the plot of the week happens? And isn't that actually pretty realistic, except for the plot of the week happening?

In essence, the characters would be "recuperating" for most of their awake hours, not needing to pay much attention to their instruments because if those really had something to tell, they'd tell it in loud enough a voice. It would be more like camping in a RV than in tents, too, with enough creature comforts that it wouldn't just feel like home - it would equal home for some.

That aside, I'm sorry to hear that Seekers didn't pan out for you. I was looking forward to it being interesting through being suitably different, just like Vanguard was, but I can't see how that would work with the shortcomings you already outlined.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Idran]

Idran,

I got no problem if the ship is out for a week, maybe a month with such few people, but I get the impression the Archer class is out for a longer period of time.

You gotta be exhausted running at full throttle like that. And yeah, we could say for the humans (as it is sketchy how much sleep/rest the other species require), after a month working a zillion hours, you got have time to decompress. Even if all the crew members were "psychologically fit" to run at that pace, even they can't operate at periods like that.

In a previous life when I was patrolling the hills of Afghanistan, we'd be on patrol at maybe a week -- 10 days max, before we were pulled in for a day or two off to recuperate.

It's a scout vessel, though, not a patrol ship. I believe it's explicitly not built for long-term missions, it's meant to return to a starbase after so much time. Even back in Vanguard, it was the ship meant to get somewhere quick, check it out, and get back to Vanguard; it was the Endeavor that did patrolling.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Vanguard is a series I really like the look of but haven't gotten round to reading yet, though the moment I saw the Archer-Class I was in love

For the small crew, on standard operations, travelling between systems, carrying out routine scans, etc, you wouldn't really need many crew: someone in engineering and two on the bridge per shift would be more than sufficient. When on Yellow or Red Alert then all the crew man their stations and have everything covered.

At least that's how I view it.

 

[Nathan]

Bry, that my point exactly, standard operations, between peaceful systems, routine scans.....the ship is doing anything but, it on the far reaches of space, help isn't really nearby, making first contact, Klingons in the mix (and that is just book #1)

I guess, if 20% or so of the crew is making first contact (or at least checking out a new species), now everyone is REALLY stretched thin and first contact with a planet ain't exactly routine.

Again, I'll buy into the low ship complement, but I just wanted some more depth with the characters. I guess if someone got tossed out the airlock (except for the Captain I guess, since I'm a little invested in him), I could give a rat's @$$ as I barely knew him/her.

I'd never expect the author being the same dude who wrote the Vanguard series. Sorta reminds me of the late, great Tom Clancy, his early work kicked @$$, but his last couple of books suxed.

Almost as if Clancy was phoning it on the last couple of his books and in this case, Mack, was phoning it in!

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

So you'd have three or four of the crew off the ship on a mission to make first contact (and study) an alien race--most likely the Captain, Science Officer, a Scout (for security) and the Doctor. That still leaves the ship with the First and Second Officers to oversee command of the ship (as well as cover bridge stations as needed), not to mention the helmsman, the engineers would be unaffected, as well as a medic and two further scouts. It sounds like the ship still has a decent enough complement to handle data gathering or further reconnaissance of the system, even with the manpower needed to take the ship into battle if called for.

Reading the bible for the Archer-Class, the crew are expected to be able to cover multiple functions and duties, so they would be more fluid in what they do each shift.

 

[Nathan]

It just seemed everyone was working "Day shift" I guess in Book #1, a bunch went down to the planet.

I saw the multiple functions/duties...that sorta a plot device I think....I'm cool with a crew stretched thin, but are they at that pace for months? People get sloppy (and get nutty) working 60+ hours a week -- and that's doesn't include when people are trying to kill you (i.e. Klingons!)

I suppose you only have two on the bridge is the minimum staffing (say one guy at helm and weapons and the other guy at Comms and Science/Nav. I guess in battle situations, I'd want more than minimum staffing. Even on a US Submarine, they got several people working and that's in peacetime AND in friendly waters.

Again, we probably won't agree, and yeah, I will buy into the premise that there is enough crew to man the ship. I ain't one for minimum staffing at all times.

 

[Claudia]

The logistical issues around having such a small crew didn't even come to mind - I just found the characters extremely flat and caricature-like. Witty one-liners, one after the other that just had me roll my eyes. I've been looking forward to Seekers as well after the excellent Vanguard-series, and I knew that it was meant to be more lighthearted and about the adventure of just being out there... but I still expected more.

Having said that, I enjoyed the second part quite a bit more, so perhaps I'll just skip the Sagittarius novels if the crews and their adventures are kept apart in future novels and such crossover missions are kept to an absolute minimum...

 

[Bibliomike]

Claudia, for what it's worth, I had the same reaction you did to the characters in #1 (my review for The Sci-Fi Christian is here: http://thescifichristian.com/2014/0...k-star-trek-seekers-1-pocket-books-july-2014/ - but I am still with the series, and the Sagittarius crew is impressing me a lot more in #3. There isn't so much of an emphasis on jokes, and they feel like well-rounded individuals. I'm especially impressed by the gung-ho Orion scout and the Vulcan first officer.

Just my two quatloos, but don't give up on the Sagittarius yet! (Especially because David Mack gets Clark Terrell's voice perfect every page.)

 

[Therin of Andor]

in this case, Mack, was phoning it in!

???

Well, I was at "Shore Leave" when #1 and 2 debuted and the writers certainly weren't unexcited for this venture. Seemed to me that Mack, Ward & Dilmore were very invested in the crew and enjoyed creating them. There are dozens of ST novels I'd suspect of being phoned in before this series.

 

[Claudia]

...and the Sagittarius crew is impressing me a lot more in #3. There isn't so much of an emphasis on jokes, and they feel like well-rounded individuals. I'm especially impressed by the gung-ho Orion scout and the Vulcan first officer.

Well, that gives me hope. Once I've munched my way through Atonement (which also has to make up quite a lot for Acts of Contrition) perhaps I'll pick up Seekers #3.

 

[Nathan]

Therin, I'm sure Mack was enthused about the project, I just thought it was written poorly, or perhaps not at "Vanguard" level of writing.

The book was such a disappointment for me, it felt like Mack was "phoning it in"....I just want to say, C'mon Mack you can do better.

Good thing, I bought the book used for 2 bucks at a library book sale, so I was really just out the time reading it.

Onto book #2, and I hope Book #3 is better.

 

[Therin of Andor]

The book was such a disappointment for me, it felt like Mack was "phoning it in"....I just want to say, C'mon Mack you can do better.

Or maybe you were in a bad mood when you read it?

 

[Nathan]

I think I had the bar too high on this one.

I have thought about this idea for YEARS....(people saying "sure ya did"), well my idea was the adventures of a small scout ship with mix of races/species, and nothing too weird like Titan or NF (hence my downer with those series), and I thought "Finally, this is gonna be a great book...and Mack is writing it to boot......the Gods are smiling down on me!!!

and again, my idea had more of Starfleet Intelligence/Spy ship slant than exploration, so....it was really kinda along the same vein.....yes, yes....I know we can't talk story ideas, but I think I was vague enough without tomatoes being thrown at me.

 

[Therin of Andor]

the adventures of a small scout ship with mix of races/species

It's oft-mooted, actually. I think the usual reason a smaller ship gets imagined is in the hope of constraining the cast to a smaller ensemble, or reducing their access to magical tech. to resolve scriptd dilmmas.

I recall people calling for a Saavik/David series of telemovies after ST II, when it looked like Spock was definitely gone forever, "Phase II" was dead (along with Decker and Ilia) and Shatner was anxious to do non-Trek feature films. They would have a "will they/won't they" romance, but with the Vulcan in the captain role, and Kirk's son in the science role.

I recall when the Enterprise was destroyed in ST III, fans anticipated Kirk and co. going renegade on a smaller ship, which they essentially did do at the beginning of ST IV.

I recall one of the TV series being rumoured/mooted prior to the announcement of "Enterprise" was Captain Nog manning a small scout ship. (The actor was visiting a Sydney bookshop the weekend the rumour "broke", and he was excited for a few minutes.) Or of Lucsly & Dulmer, or Section 31, running a small ship.

 

[Christopher]

The advantage of a small crew on a TV series is that you don't have to deal with the incongruous premise of the same seven or eight people doing all the work on a ship that has a crew of hundreds. With all those scientists on board the Enterprise, how come the command crew are the only ones who ever beam down to explore a planet?

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

It is entirely possible that there are Archer-Class ships out there that act as purely as intelligence gathering / reconnaissance vessels, with a strategic operations officer replacing the science officer and intelligence analysts replacing scouts.

 

[Quimby]

I haven't read book 3 yet but my main problems with books 1 and 2 were that it was one book of story split over two books. By book 2 I was kind of bored. Also many of the characters sounded the same. They all have that Snarky, sarcastic jokey dialogue that makes everyone sound like they are on Buffy The Vampire Slayer. I could hardly tell who was saying what sometimes.

On the plus side I do like the setting in theory so I did buy number 3. Just haven't dug into it yet.