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See what "Day of the Doctor" with Ecclestone would have looked like!

Re: See what "Day of the Doctor" with Ecclestone would have looked lik

It may be a meaning of the word that is no longer in general use. In the first Thor comics back in the early 60s, Thor's alter ego, Dr. Donald Blake, used a cane and was described as being "lame".
 
Re: See what "Day of the Doctor" with Ecclestone would have looked lik

I just get the feeling that we all walk on eggshells now days because society suffers from "offensensitivity" - and yeah, we should try not to use words like "lame", "gay", "pussy", "retarded", as pejoratives...but if we slip up and do, we're not "worse than Hitler" either. (For a long time I used "lame" as a substitute for "gay", I never made a connection between "lame" and "disabled"...ever. Until I read this post.)

Honestly, a lot of people just don't care on this matter, outside of obsessive PC nuts. RTD even calls things "gay" as a pejorative. Which was actually funny when the PC nuts accused him of being homophobic(!) for Rose's "that's so gay" line in Aliens of London.
 
Re: See what "Day of the Doctor" with Ecclestone would have looked lik

I rather thought that RTD went out of his way to show stuff like interracial relationships, pansexuality, created a strong minority character in Martha...it's funny that the PC crowd would come down on him at all.
 
Re: See what "Day of the Doctor" with Ecclestone would have looked lik

I rather thought that RTD went out of his way to show stuff like interracial relationships, pansexuality, created a strong minority character in Martha...it's funny that the PC crowd would come down on him at all.

Well, apparently it isn't PC for a gay man to call something "gay." Who knew?
 
Re: See what "Day of the Doctor" with Ecclestone would have looked lik

This actor is clearly showing signs of dementia, like his father before him (it is quite hereditary, you know).
 
Re: See what "Day of the Doctor" with Ecclestone would have looked lik

But the world loves a bastard.

You win because you posted this while having a Red Dwarf av. (Even though "Back in the Red, Part I" is kinda a weak episode. But not a "lame" episode, as we have established. ;) )

I just get the feeling that we all walk on eggshells now days because society suffers from "offensensitivity" - and yeah, we should try not to use words like "lame", "gay", "pussy", "retarded", as pejoratives...but if we slip up and do, we're not "worse than Hitler" either. (For a long time I used "lame" as a substitute for "gay", I never made a connection between "lame" and "disabled"...ever. Until I read this post.)

Honestly, a lot of people just don't care on this matter, outside of obsessive PC nuts. RTD even calls things "gay" as a pejorative. Which was actually funny when the PC nuts accused him of being homophobic(!) for Rose's "that's so gay" line in Aliens of London.

I was very surprised when I first noticed that line in "Aliens of London" considering RTD's orientation. I figure everyone should be allowed to say anything in the right context. So if a gay man is fine with using "gay" in that context, who am I to argue.
 
Re: See what "Day of the Doctor" with Ecclestone would have looked lik

can we not use the slur "lame"? just because someone has problems with their legs doesn't mean they a synonym for inferiority and weakness.

It wasn't really meant as a slur but as a synonym of weak - which is also ableist as a quick internet research has shown me. I've replaced it.

My ex-wife (who I am dating - looong story) is disabled - she has JRA and uses an electric wheelchair and I met her when she ran into me with her Amigo cart. And I have never heard her use the word "ableist" - in fact, I recently had to explain to *her* what it meant. And she uses the word "lame" all the time, especially when talking to our teenage kids, in fact, I'm snickering now because she told me that "ableist" is a "pretty lame thing to say".

Of course, she doesn't speak for or represent all disabled people - but she have a lot of disabled friends (and I have a mental disability myself - several, actually) - and the only people who I have ever heard use the word "ableist" then to be PC people with no disabilities...and just like men online who mansplain to women why the are so wrong when they say that they *don't* need feminism, I think treating disabled people like they are weak and need defending is a bit...patronizing.

Originally, I wasn't going to continue this line of discussion because it's off-topic but since it has already filled up a whole page I might as well.

The term ableist may not be as widely known as others but I don't think that really matters. The concept of associating disability with something negative or bad is certainly a familiar one. The thing is that language shapes our thoughts and the other way around. So if we use words like retarded we (involuntarily) perpetuate the notion that disability is something bad and shameful. I think it's a good thing to occasionally step back and look at how we use language.

As for men explaining to women that they're wrong when they claim that they don't need feminism - as a woman and a feminist I'd say those men are absolutely right. Their behaviour isn't necessarily patronising (though it can be, depending how they go about it). It also doesn't fit the original meaning of mansplaining.


I just get the feeling that we all walk on eggshells now days because society suffers from "offensensitivity" - and yeah, we should try not to use words like "lame", "gay", "pussy", "retarded", as pejoratives...but if we slip up and do, we're not "worse than Hitler" either. (For a long time I used "lame" as a substitute for "gay", I never made a connection between "lame" and "disabled"...ever. Until I read this post.)

I'm not walking on eggshells. And I didn't make the connection, either, until it was pointed out. English is my second language. But thinking about it it does make sense.

Four Doctor was very respectful in pointing it out so I have no idea where that part about being "worse than Hitler" comes from. If nobody ever raises the issue or points these things out nobody will learn a thing.

At least in English you have so many synonymous words it's fairly easy to find substitutes for what you want to say. In my native tongue it's a lot harder.


So, anyway. Day of the Doctor, huh? ;) I do agree with what was said upthread that the contrast between Nine and the other Doctors wouldn't have been as great as with the War Doctor. In a way, he embodied a part of the fan base of the old show with its criticism of the young Doctors and thus allowed Moffat to come up with an explanation of why they are that way. So, after that, Capaldi could be an older, grumpier Doctor.
 
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I found this on YouTube. A fan edit that includes Eccleston and Capaldi in the climactic scene of DotD.

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Those pages are pretty neat. I think I'd have like to have seen Eccleston in some reunion episode but not in some version of the 50th we got. I like that Nine's story pretty much begins in "Rose" (although with some leeway for the Titanic/Krakatoa appearances) and I don't think he should have been part of the Time War. I think it would have been neat if he'd turned up immediately post-regeneration for a few seconds. I can see the argument for McGann returning but I like the story we got with John Hurt, and I am a sucker for "hidden/lost" character type stories. If a "lost" Enterprise turned up between NX-01 and 1701, I would love it.
 
I genuinely do not believe the War Doctor concept would've worked with anyone other than John Hurt in the casting. He was the absolute best casting for such a role, because he's one of the greatest actors of all time, with natural gravitas and obvious awesomeness. He sold the part more than Moffat's hasty rewrite did, as it often happened with Moffat in his run (though less so with Capaldi). Otherwise, McGann or Eccleston would absolutely had been the perfect choices, for a number of reasons. For one, Eccleston was the first Time War Doctor on the show's history, therefore returning the focus on him for the 50th made sense, since its his story and onwards that NuWho's based on. What Moffat seemingly was doing there was having the three NuWho Doctors trying to find their place with OldWho, by allowing Gallifrey to having survived. With Hurt, of course, it was different, as Hurt arguably symbolized the show's cancellation and NuWho Doctors served as the inspiration to bring the show back on the air.

McGann would've been arguably the best choice, IMO, because of the stark contrast it'd have created with his first appearence in the TV Movie, and it'd showcase how the wilderness years really took their toll on this Doctor, who never had a chance to flower on-screen like all the other Doctors did, instead having only that one story for him to go by. Its an essential bookend that'd have spoken about the show's missing years more tellingly than Hurt's Warrior does now.

But, anyway. At least we got a fantastic actor playing the part, so it wasn't all bad.
 
I like that Nine's story pretty much begins in "Rose" (although with some leeway for the Titanic/Krakatoa appearances) and I don't think he should have been part of the Time War.
RTD never intended Rose to be the Ninth Doctor's post-regeneration story. I know Moffat is quoted saying that's what he considers it, but RTD's intent trumps Moffat's interpretation. Really, the Ninth Doctor could have been around for years or even decades prior to Rose.

Mind you, RTD also said he always believed it was the Ninth Doctor who fought in the Time War, though that I'm okay with being discarded. Of course, I always thought it was the Eighth Doctor who fought in the war before a War Doctor was created.
If a "lost" Enterprise turned up between NX-01 and 1701, I would love it.
IDW's comics do reveal there was another Enterprise before the 1701 in the Abramsverse, though I'm not too sure if that would work in the Prime Universe where it is repeatedly stated the D was the fifth Federation ship named Enterprise, and the E was once referred to as the sixth. You get away with the NX-01 because that was never a Federation ship, its service beginning and ending before the Federation was founded.
 
In The Writer's Tale RTD mentions that in his head he has worked out most of the Time War and jokingly said someday he would write the novel. I would love to know what his take on the Time War was, what the Doctor did in it and what pushd him to destroy Gallifrey.

On the other hand, I do love Day of the Doctor and John Hurt in the role. He really did feel like he was one of the original Doctor's when he was interacting with Ten and Eleven, almost as if he was channeling Hartnell. He pulled off that trick Hartnell did in The Three Doctors where he seemed to be the older more wiser Doctor compared to the others, even though chronologically he was the youngest.
 
RTD never intended Rose to be the Ninth Doctor's post-regeneration story. I know Moffat is quoted saying that's what he considers it, but RTD's intent trumps Moffat's interpretation.
I just go with what I see onscreen and in "Rose" I see Nine looking in a mirror as if he's never seen this face before, suggesting he's brand new.
 
I just go with what I see onscreen and in "Rose" I see Nine looking in a mirror as if he's never seen this face before, suggesting he's brand new.
RTD explained that wasn't intended to mean he'd just regenerated, and that he wrote the Doctor as someone who'd been in that form a while in Rose. We discuss this in another thread here.
 
On a sidenote, it seems that Big Finish is following RTD's mindset regarding Nine, as his recent Churchill adventure is reportedly set for him before Rose. So...
 
That is promising. So far, the only Ninth Doctor tie-in set before Rose started travelling with him stuck with the theory of him having adventures in the span between offering Rose the chance to travel space and informing her he can also travel in time. Which I guess there's noting wrong with, even if I personally don't accept the idea. But it is nice to see someone is finally having him on adventures prior to Rose.
 
That is promising. So far, the only Ninth Doctor tie-in set before Rose started travelling with him stuck with the theory of him having adventures in the span between offering Rose the chance to travel space and informing her he can also travel in time. Which I guess there's noting wrong with, even if I personally don't accept the idea. But it is nice to see someone is finally having him on adventures prior to Rose.
I like both of those ideas. Though I don't know if he could have, say, a century of adventures during that episode. Its a very Moffat thing for the character to do, so I'll just safely assume he might've have a several years, maybe a decade, but that's it.
 
IDW's comics do reveal there was another Enterprise before the 1701 in the Abramsverse, though I'm not too sure if that would work in the Prime Universe where it is repeatedly stated the D was the fifth Federation ship named Enterprise, and the E was once referred to as the sixth. You get away with the NX-01 because that was never a Federation ship, its service beginning and ending before the Federation was founded.

It would work if the ship named Enterprise set between the founding of the Federation and the launch of NCC-1701 was not a "starship", under whatever classification Starfleet uses that term. Like if their has been a border patrol cruiser named Enterprise, or an Earth Rescue Cutter named Enterprise, it would still be there, just not a "Federation Starship".
 
I like both of those ideas. Though I don't know if he could have, say, a century of adventures during that episode. Its a very Moffat thing for the character to do, so I'll just safely assume he might've have a several years, maybe a decade, but that's it.

Going by the ages War (800) and Eleven (12-something) use in "Day of the Doctor" -- which must be consistent for them for the dialogue to make sense -- then there's a century plus a few decades for the ninth Doctor prior to "Rose."

One argument in favor of a long period of time between "Day" and "Rose" is that the tenth Doctor doesn't act like the War Doctor is recent for him. He behaves like Hurt's incarnation and the events of the Time War were a long time in his past.
 
Does the War Doctor say he is 800 exactly or just that he's in his 800s? I've been operating under the head-canon belief that he was 850 when he regenerated, giving the Ninth Doctor about 50 years prior to Rose.
 
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