With the way S31 does things,and with no-one to stop them could they become in the next few years the federation's version of the tal shiar?,with every federation citizen being afraid of them?.
section 31,will they be like?,...
- Thread starter Mr Pointy Ears
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Section 31, don't officially exist. If their existence was confirmed, they might be less powerful, but M15 in England and the CIA are very powerful. One can only hope they they have some form of self control. I think they are supposed to be more feared by the Federations enemy's than by it's own citizens. I don't know whether Section 31 is external or internal.
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Considering only a handful of Federation citizens are even aware of Section 31's existence, I don't see how the entire population will become afraid of them.
Also, Section 31 lasted 200 years without becoming Tal Shiar like, I don't see why they would undergo such a drastic transformation within "the next few years."
I'm pretty sure they only deal with external threats anyway.
Also, Section 31 lasted 200 years without becoming Tal Shiar like, I don't see why they would undergo such a drastic transformation within "the next few years."
I'm pretty sure they only deal with external threats anyway.
I tell you one thing, I don't think Section 31 would be on to you, if you wrote a story, saying that things would have evolved and changed and the 24thC system would be different by the 28th.
I think they would be happy with that.
I do think that they will have wiped some citizens out completely, erased them from the record and society, for no other reason than they looked at them the wrong way, or just for the pleasure of it, and for no other reason that they can. They won't be perfect.
I think they would be happy with that.
I do think that they will have wiped some citizens out completely, erased them from the record and society, for no other reason than they looked at them the wrong way, or just for the pleasure of it, and for no other reason that they can. They won't be perfect.
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Section 31 deals with "threats to the Federation" that's a rather nebulous mandate. We know that 31 engaged in domestic operations going so far as placing an agent in the Federation President's Cabinet! Section 31 is far more more dangerous than the Tal Shiar or the Obsidian Order two organizations which relied as much on the fear of the populous to carry out their mandates as they did actual deeds. 31 operates completely in shadow while permeating every layer of the Federation government and society. And is all works and no talk. 31 was able to develop and deploy a genocidal biological weapon within the Federation and disperse it through Starfleet Medical. An organization that can do that is capable of anything. Making the odd citizen or colony or even starship disappear in the name of defending the Federation is well within their capability and their character.
No, no Section 31 is made up of the most dangerous thing in the universe idealists. They do what they do because they believe in the cause. If they hurt somebody or disappear someone it will be for the cause since that'sthe only way they can reconcile their activities with the ideals of Federation they are protecting. They have to do what they do so others can sleep soundly at night. The petty minded thugs you describe simply couldn't survive in that type of outfit.
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No, it would go against their principles and objectives of operating covertly and in the shadows of the Federation, and being officially non-existent. Their existence is not even known to the vast majority of the public, government and Starfleet, and that status quo is something they would never want to endanger. They have no intention of running the government or its people, and have no political affiliation. They exist simply to exterminate any threats that the Federation is unable to get rid of on its own, or doesn't even know about (think about how unbelievable that sounds).
The scope of their power is frightening, but it’s thanks to them and their hidden existence that the Federation is still intact.
Maniarek.
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Personally, I'm not convinced of that. I think someone thought they were a good idea at one point. But I'd bet that the Federation could take care of itself on its own without having a hidden faction undermining the very values that it was built on in the name of preservation.
You read in the papers of the police pursuing vendettas against the wrong people for years, for no other reason than they can and they are bored and have little else to do.
Perhaps Section 31 will be too professional and big-minded to do this.
Even so,I bet they've callously removed some people from the record completely. They may even do anything to cover up a mistake, or bad decision, even if it means wiping out somebody. Maybe not.
I'm sure they'd go to whatever lengths were necessary to remove a potential threat to the Federation. A person prone to pursuing petty vendettas would not make it in an organization like 31. They might be used as an agent/asset, but they'd never be brought in as an officer/handler.
Says who? Them? Yeah, they're a real trustworthy source, aren't they?
Show me actual evidence that Section 31 has ever saved the Federation.
If Section 31 are the 24thC equivalent of the CIA, didn't the CIA indulge themselves in not so petty vendettas? They had it in for Kennedy, after the Bay of Pigs fiasco, when some of them got killed. At least, that's what I heard. Someone should do a story of how Section31 killed or ruined a 24thC golden boy for the same reasons.
I saw that episode of The X-Files, too.
[begin rant]Section 31 are a bunch of sociopaths hidden in patriotic...no, I was going to say garb, but look at them. Even their garb says they're sociopaths. They're delusional. They're fanatics who've chosen a worthy cause but go about it not because they care about the Federation but by their own need to be martyrs.
Whatever good they've done...you could go out and murder a child-molester: it gets rid of a problem, but does it solve the problem? And the cost of the good it does is far too much bad.
Whatever good they've done...you could go out and murder a child-molester: it gets rid of a problem, but does it solve the problem? And the cost of the good it does is far too much bad.
You can investigate, prosecute, jail, and possibly rehabilitate a child molester: it gets rid of a problem, but does it solve the problem? If I take your meaning, neither case solves *the* problem, so we should refrain from both courses of action.
True. And I don't believe that Section 31 was anywhere near as powerful as either the DS9 episodes they were featured in made them out to be, or fanwankery made them out to be.
And they're not "super-secret" anymore. The entire crew of DS9 know about them, and they most likely revealed S31's existence to everyone else. I really don't see them as even existing as a coherent organization anymore after the Dominion War.
^^"The entire crew of DS9" is an exaggeration. The senior staff know about them, but that's like seven people in the entire Federation. Not really enough to expose such a secret.
OK, that's what I meant when I said the "crew." Sorry if I wasn't clear. But what's to stop Sisko and "crew" from going to Starfleet Command and the Federation Council with what they know? Or Jake Sisko from spreading their existence on the Federation News Service?
The second course of action is less self-defeating.
It's not just on the X files. It's a strong theory. The security services can be vindictive, and there is not a lot you can do about it. If they want to finish you off, they will. I know of cases where police forces have wiped people out completely . It will be a bit like that in the 24thC.
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