True.
But there again, a rogue faction of the government has never engaged in a conspiracy to force the President to resign and then cover up his assassination, either.
Section 31: Rogue
- Thread starter Garm Bel Iblis
- Start date
True.
Okay, let me put it this way: They shouldn't get away with it.
Interesting note: the one thing Bashir and the Jack Pack apparently did not anticipate--aside from the Breen alliance, which tilted the scale in the Dominion's favor, mind you--was Section 31 in general, and the virus in particular.
Suppose that's something.
The virus could have also caused the Jam Hadar to launch a massive Kamakaze attack on the Federation and its allies in revenge and killed billions. Thank god Odo managed to save the Founders and get them to end the war and stoped those idiots.
Nice theory--except for the fact that in "Starship Down", it was established that if the founder dies, the Jem'Hadar who were entrusted to defend it all commit suicide. If they were really so "vengeful" as you claim, they would have, in that episode, killed all the Starfleet Officers on the planet...but they didn't.
And of course...the Tal Shiar was decimated by the Founders in "The Die Is Cast"--and the Romulan-founder explained to Odo that this effectively crippled the Romulans as a threat in and of themselves.
Again--the fact that Bashir was able to use his computer console in "Extreme", as opposed to "Inter Arna...", hints that something was amiss. The only reason Sloan would allow himself to be caught implies that there was something else going on.
Not neccessarily. As Scotty said in STIII:TSFS, "The more they overthink the plumbing...the easier it is to stop up the drain."
..."Barshir"?
Anyhow...remember, as Ross explained, Cretak only did what she thought would advance the interests of the Empire. She thought it would benefit the Empire to put weapons in the Bajoran system--and she thought that the assasination of Koval would hurt the Empire.
Why do you like defending the bad guys?
Perhaps my standard of good and evil is...quite dissimilar from you own, my dear sir.
Hence...why we seem to disagree on everything except, of course, on the completely cool qualities of His Supreme Awesomeness, Captain Robau!
Well, that depends on whether or not you believe the conspiracy theories or not, doesn't it?
Also, to point out, it's not as if that action is portrayed as something good, more as an action of a shadowy agency convinced that the ends justify the means and that certain issues should be dealt with in those shadows. When other characters learn about what was done, they are rightly appalled at the actions that have been taken in the name of Federation security.
Yeah. I don't really think that's being contested by anyone. A Time to Heal portrayed it as a bad thing all around.
Although...the heros DID agree that the coup was neccessary--just not the assasination.
I wonder--what was the point of the assasination, anyhow? Was 31's justification "The Federation People must never know why he resigned--so Zife must be done away with so that he'll never talk"?
Or was it just, "Oh, let's do some over-kill today"?
BTW...I'm not entirely sure, but...was it clearly stated that Zife was "disposed of"? I mean, we know Ross believed that that was what they were going to do...but we didn't see it happen, and as far as I can remember, no one witnessed Zife's actual fate, other than the agents. Did they really kill him--or did it only appear that way, due to the scene being told from Ross's POV?
I wonder--what was the point of the assasination, anyhow? Was 31's justification "The Federation People must never know why he resigned--so Zife must be done away with so that he'll never talk"?
Or was it just, "Oh, let's do some over-kill today"?
BTW...I'm not entirely sure, but...was it clearly stated that Zife was "disposed of"? I mean, we know Ross believed that that was what they were going to do...but we didn't see it happen, and as far as I can remember, no one witnessed Zife's actual fate, other than the agents. Did they really kill him--or did it only appear that way, due to the scene being told from Ross's POV?
Garm Bel Iblis
Commodore
it was strongly implied and his lack of prescense in A time for war, pretty much indicates he's in that large Bolian Barbershop in the Sky.
Section 31 decided that Zife deserved to die for his crimes -- it's pretty much that simple.
The scene was actually from Azernal's POV as he realized he was going to be murdered along with the President. He could tell the deal they were offering was too good to be real. Ross was apparently present, and witnessed them being vaporized in the Monet Room, if his internal monologue in Articles of the Federation is to be trusted.
I don't believe the location of their deaths is specified (as I recall the S31 operatives lead them out sometime after Zife makes his resignation speech), but all of the evidence indicates that they were killed.
Given the extent of their crimes and the extremely controversial knowledge that they possessed, I can see how S31 could justify their permanent removal...but I'm not saying I agree with it.
Given the extent of their crimes and the extremely controversial knowledge that they possessed, I can see how S31 could justify their permanent removal...but I'm not saying I agree with it.
If that were the case, I doubt they would have assassinated him in the first place. The disappearance of a former President would almost certainly attract more attention to the truth about Tezwa than would a former President who knows there's a gun pointed at his head wherever he goes that'll fire if he even tries to tell anyone the truth.
Disagree.
All it takes is one interview where Zife et al. says something imprudent (and it was shown that prudence wasn't always Zife's strong suit) to get the ball rolling on a war with the Klingons. If he no longer exists, he can't say anything.
As for the disappearance of a former president...given the Federation covers a lot more territory than just this planet, I think all it would take is a lot about "Zife is retiring and going into seclusion," to assuage the general public, especially given that he didn't end his presidency on a high note to begin with.
I meant the President and Azernal. For some reason I assumed they were members because otherwise why would section 31 be there. I guess I am going to have to re read the book. It has been a while since I read the books
If a crooked politician or judge is taking bribes from the mob to do their bidding, that doesn't make him or her a member of the mob. By the same token, S31 has influence over many people who aren't actual members of the organization.
^Yup.
Ross for one.
Koval for another.
And Bashir, to a point.
Ross for one.
Koval for another.
And Bashir, to a point.
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