Right. Same principle. The point is that it refers to an ongoing time frame that encompasses the 23rd & 24th centuries.
News Section 31 is the next series, not set in "our world"
- Thread starter KepperC
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Right. Same principle. The point is that it refers to an ongoing time frame that encompasses the 23rd & 24th centuries.
That's of course possible, but it is also entirely possible that mirror Shakeaspeare was a massive asshole whose views already aligned with that of the Terran Empire.
Possible, but not a given. I'm just saying that it's dangerous to blindly trust the version of history you're presented with, especially in a dictatorship. History always has a bias, and it would be so much worse in a tyranny. So whatever we were told about the MU's past from the Empire's perspective should be viewed with skepticism, not uncritically treated as fact. Skepticism does not mean assuming it must be wrong, just leaving it as an open question.
There's really no evidence that the MU split from the Prime Universe at any point, and a lot of reason to believe the contrary. After all, the MU credits sequence for Enterprise focused on the human propensity for violence as the motivator of innovation from very early in the sequence. Cochrane's murderous attitude toward the Vulcans can be viewed as a single moment at which things diverged, but it's more likely just the Terrans carrying on as Terrans have carried on from their beginnings.*
*The Terrans being us.
*The Terrans being us.
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Writers intent is that they're the same universes.
Yeah. The whole point of revisiting the Mirror Universe is to revisit the Mirror Universe, the one audiences are invested in. There are differences in interpretation, but that's just part of how fiction works. There's a difference between a change within a story (e.g. a starship being refitted) and a change in how the story is told (e.g. an actor being recast).
Who says they did? Just because they mirrored a logo? That's being way too literal.
Besides, this is the same show that depicted a type-O star as orange, put a class-M planet next to a space station 100 AU from the Sun, and portrayed turboshafts as a roller coaster in an industrial hammerspace. Even if they did show what purported to be a firsthand image of a mirror-reversed Earth, you can't take any of the visual effects on Discovery as literal fact.
And while I do agree that dictatorships can and do rewrite history, I don't see any particular reason to assume they've done it here. It's just casual dialogue between Phlox and Hoshi - two citizens of the Empire - and didn't involve the general public (why censor what you're saying when there's nobody to censor TO?), so I think we can trust that they were being honest about the whole Shakespeare thing.
That said, the novel Dark Mirror does offer a tantalizing glimpse of what mirror Shakespeare might have been like...
Edit: Just thought of something else. Phlox says that Shakespeare was "equally grim" in both universes. If the Empire had been altering his works, surely they wouldn't make it grim, would they? I think it's safe to say that if the Empire considers Shakespeare to be grim, then oftentimes his stuff would not be in line with Imperial policy, and the Empire hasn't rewritten it to make it so.
There must be a reason why they depict their main planet like that. Would any proud American wear anything that has the US upside down or flipped? XD
^ Can't say I'm surprised. The Empire is obviously very theatrical and over-the-top, so it's totally in their wheelhouse to use fancy symbols like that.
I liked the one from TOS better, but it probably just depends on the Emperor. Whoever succeeds Georgiou may not be into the bling, so they'll probably order it changed.
I liked the one from TOS better, but it probably just depends on the Emperor. Whoever succeeds Georgiou may not be into the bling, so they'll probably order it changed.
Like I said, not every design decision by the makers of a work of fiction needs to be taken as the literal reality of the imaginary universe being depicted. There's no "reason" why the planet Vulcan from orbit looks different every time we see it, or why Klingons or Andorians or Tellarites change appearance under every new makeup artist, or why Saavik's face and voice changed after Spock's funeral. These are stories, and the way they're presented to us is the result of a series of artistic and pragmatic decisions, some better than others.
In this case, the makers of Discovery simply take the nickname "Mirror Universe" far too literally, to the point that they've even had characters explicitly call it that in-story. So flipping the logo is just the show's makers being cute. It's not worth taking any more seriously than that.
The first Terran astronauts took the first photograph of the Earth in a special mirror installed on board the craft, as there was no direct window to protect their eyes from the Sun.
So, even though the geography was definitely incorrect (they had maps), this image of Terra Globa was viewed by citizens (and exploited by the Empire) as a great achievement, a pinnacle of their planned conquest of the stars after conquering the planet.
That's a nice theory, and it can be refined: Georgiou's ancestors were involved in that spaceflight, so under her reign, they flipped it. Or her first childhood drawing of Earth was like that, and she never could acknowledge her mistakes, so she instead used a sharpie and drew her own logo, which the Empire then had to use cause no one wanted to get killed over that XD
You mean it's not literally true? O_o
A previous regime probably had a regular Earth in the symbol. The current regime probably changed it to be like, F the previous regime, or like a backwards swastika, because it looked "cool". The same mentality here that creates these modified symbols probably apply there.
Perhaps the Terran logo has something to do with Empress Sato being aware, they are called the Mirror Universe by the other dimension who created the U.S.S. Defiant, and taking it too literally? Her subjects on an Earth must be well acquainted with the shape of the continents though, but presumably too scared for their lives to have say anything about the change.
Obviously looking at TOS just a decade later, and subjugated Terrans in DS9, somebody's going to change it back to the original Earth emblem again... leaving Discovery's take some weird aberration.
It's all some much in-universe excuse making for a stylistic choice, somebody in the Art Dept. should've spoken up about before it made it onscreen.
Obviously looking at TOS just a decade later, and subjugated Terrans in DS9, somebody's going to change it back to the original Earth emblem again... leaving Discovery's take some weird aberration.
It's all some much in-universe excuse making for a stylistic choice, somebody in the Art Dept. should've spoken up about before it made it onscreen.
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Except they aren't. Until Discovery, the term "Mirror Universe" was never used in-story, only here in the real world. The characters only used terms like "parallel universe," "another universe," or "alternate universe" (which was the standard term in DS9). Frankly I find it annoying that DSC uses the terms "Mirror Universe" and "Prime Universe" as in-story nomenclature. It's from the wrong side of the fourth wall. The flipped logo is part of the same thinking.
