"Second star to the right, ...and straight on 'til morning."

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

So was the intention that the audience believe the crew was mass mutinying once again and would just fly around space like roving adventurers/vigilantes with a stolen ship, trying to recapture their youth and keep the Enterprise until they all die?

Or that they'd ultimately follow orders, but in their own time, taking the scenic route home - once more around the track, so to speak, and if they didn't make it back, that would be more due to circumstances than their choice?

 

[FredH]

So was the intention that the audience believe the crew was mass mutinying once again and would just fly around space like roving adventurers/vigilantes with a stolen ship, trying to recapture their youth and keep the Enterprise until they all die?

Or that they'd ultimately follow orders, but in their own time, taking the scenic route home - once more around the track, so to speak, and if they didn't make it back, that would be more due to circumstances than their choice?

The latter. Kirk wouldn’t be talking about turning the ship over to a new generation, otherwise. Also, I doubt most of the crew would be pleased to know that they’d suddenly been shanghaied.

 

[XCV330]

It was a meaningless instruction anyway. Second star to the right of what? They were probably just cruising a bit longer till underway.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Of course, Kirk can always redefine the word "shortly" however he chooses.

 

[Nerys Myk]

So was the intention that the audience believe the crew was mass mutinying once again and would just fly around space like roving adventurers/vigilantes with a stolen ship, trying to recapture their youth and keep the Enterprise until they all die?

Or that they'd ultimately follow orders, but in their own time, taking the scenic route home - once more around the track, so to speak, and if they didn't make it back, that would be more due to circumstances than their choice?

None of the above

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Oh, so is it the decommissioning they disagree with? Not "we're not coming back and you can't make us", but, "yes, we're bringing the ship back, but we're going to make sure somebody else gets to have this ship, even if we can't anymore, rather than taking it out of service, because that would be a shame".

(BTW, in the ending to "Colorblind", Spock's about to object literally when Kirk means something figuratively)

 

[Nerys Myk]

It's just a quote from Peter Pan that that doesn't quite fit the scene,

 

[CoveTom]

It's just a quote from Peter Pan that that doesn't quite fit the scene,

Much like the title "The Undiscovered Country," it was something Nick Meyer had wanted to put into TWOK but didn't get to, so he shoehorned it in to TUC. Where it doesn't fit.

In TWOK, the quote would have made sense because it's from Peter Pan and Kirk is talking at the end of the film about how he has been rejuvenated ("I feel young.") Similarly, "The Undiscovered Country" is a Shakesperean reference to death, which ties into Spock's death. Both made sense there. They don't work nearly as well for TUC.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Or that they'd ultimately follow orders, but in their own time, taking the scenic route home - once more around the track, so to speak, and if they didn't make it back, that would be more due to circumstances than their choice?

That's essentially what happens in Diane Carey's Best Destiny. Kirk tells Starfleet Command they're not going into retirement right away.

Kirk tells Spock at the beginning of the film that the crew has three months until retirement. So, I figure they have about 10 weeks until they have to return to Earth, which happens in Michael Jan Friedman's Shadows on the Sun.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Actually, Kirk had Chekov fly the ship into that nearby star. I mean, they were headed directly for it and vanished

 

[Zycho32]

Much like the title "The Undiscovered Country," it was something Nick Meyer had wanted to put into TWOK but didn't get to, so he shoehorned it in to TUC. Where it doesn't fit.

In TWOK, the quote would have made sense because it's from Peter Pan and Kirk is talking at the end of the film about how he has been rejuvenated ("I feel young.") Similarly, "The Undiscovered Country" is a Shakesperean reference to death, which ties into Spock's death. Both made sense there. They don't work nearly as well for TUC.

I find it fits a little better than you think, if you think of it as "never wanting to grow up" ie, resisting, if only for a short while, that your journey, your Star Trek, is finally ended.

 

[Sir Rhosis]

Actually, Kirk had Chekov fly the ship into that nearby star. I mean, they were headed directly for it and vanished

My elderly mother thought they committed suicide by flying into that star.

Sir Rhosis

 

[Phaser Two]

Actually, Kirk had Chekov fly the ship into that nearby star. I mean, they were headed directly for it and vanished

Well, with no one at the helm station (why didn't they just have Chekov move over, for crying out loud?), that's what can happen.

 

[Jeyl]

I associate the line with a lot of things, but I'll start with what Spock said to Kirk earlier.

Spock: Is it possible that we two, you and I, have grown so old and so inflexible that we have outlived out usefulness?​

A key word in this statement is 'inflexible', which definitely describes Kirk's views on the Federation making peace with the Klingons. This peace conference will bring about big changes that Kirk and most of his crew do not want. As much as CoveTom says that the title 'The Undiscovered Country' doesn't fit, it actually does. Here is the quote in context from Hamlet.

"The undiscovered country from whose bourn no traveller returns, puzzles the will and makes us rather bear those ills we have than fly to others that we know not of? Thus conscience does make cowards of us all"​

Changing the meaning of the Undiscovered Country from death to the future still carries weight. The "bear those ills we have than fly to others we know not of" is what Kirk and the conspirators believe. They would rather continue to be in conflict since that is what some have known their whole lives. For others, the conflict is what gave them purpose.

So in the end once Kirk and crew save the day and the peace talks are successful, Kirk gives the order to Chekov,

Kirk: Second star to the right and straight on till morning​

This phrase, given by Peter Pan as a way to show the kids how to get to Never Never Land, is Kirk's way of countering Spock's observation by saying that they may be old, but are not inflexible. They no longer seek to stop change, but to part of it. They reached the Undiscovered Country and let go of the ills that hindered them from seeing the good that these changes could bring. Kirk doesn't give this order in defiance of Starfleet, he gives it acknowledging that even if though their time on the Enterprise is over, the changes that were brought about have brought them peace and an optimistic view of the future. As noted in his final log, there are many more Undiscovered Countries for future generations to explore.

 

[fireproof78]

Oh, so is it the decommissioning they disagree with? Not "we're not coming back and you can't make us", but, "yes, we're bringing the ship back, but we're going to make sure somebody else gets to have this ship, even if we can't anymore, rather than taking it out of service, because that would be a shame".

(BTW, in the ending to "Colorblind", Spock's about to object literally when Kirk means something figuratively)

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Changing the meaning of the Undiscovered Country from death to the future still carries weight. The "bear those ills we have than fly to others we know not of" is what Kirk and the conspirators believe. They would rather continue to be in conflict since that is what some have known their whole lives. For others, the conflict is what gave them purpose.

Some prefer the familiar of misery than the unfamiliar.