Second Chances
- Thread starter Tribble Threat
- Start date
okay sure.
Come on, watch that scene where Ro's like "I'm only here because I have to" and he growls at her "it's a PRIVILIGE!"
That's just laughable.
He's the ship's XO. He needs to act professionally and not lash out at his crew. And I don't care how much Barclay screws up. There's no excuse for a superior to ever to refer to him as "Broccoli" like Riker was doing until Picard shut him down.
No; in both cases he was upset to have to work with people who had reportedly screwed up and got people killed.
Riker being a dick rolled out in it's biggest way in BoBW with Shelby, who's only crime was that she was as good for his job as he was, & because he was holding up advancement opportunities for other people, he decided to turn it into a pissing match. Everybody but him seemed to think she was a fantastic officer (Much like he'd once been)
Exactly. Spot on
Is it really though? Several times throughout the series it's shown or implied that being assigned to the Enterprise, the flag ship, is seen as being a plum assignment. Maybe Ro didn't care but it probably was a privilege to be assigned there.
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As I said above, that's one interpretation. I was bullied too but I learned to stand up for myself. Riker was acting in the best interest of his ship. A ship he cared a great deal for and as # 1 he was ultimately responsible for smooth running of the ship. I'd be pissed off too If I had to work with someone like Ro or Tam. Of course Ro redeems herself and becomes a welcomed member of the crew. That in itself also strained credibility. She goes from public enemy # 1 to everybody's friend in one episode. Yeah, okay
And lets also not forget that it's a TV show. The writers have to construct conflict to make it compelling. Had Riker welcomed those two onboard with open arms and smiles, it would have been silly and extremely unrealistic
Yes, it's pretty obvious he felt threatened by Shelby and did not handle it well. Despite being enlightened humans from the 24th century that doesn't mean they won't occasionally act poorly.
But Ro doesn't have to see it as a privilege only because Riker worships the enterprise and his surrogate papa. her feelings regarding the Enterprise don't matter for the mission she was assigned to.
So him growling "it's a PRIVILAGE!111!" is one of the cringiest moments in TNG for me(Seasons 3-6, that is). She wasn't even putting the Enterprise down she only pointed out that she was there because she had to be.
Riker may not have known about Tam's condition. But even if he did, his reaction to Tam is completely understandable. And frankly, reasonable. He got 47 people killed, including two Academy friends.
Let me put it this way.
If someone with any kind of mental condition got anyone you cared about killed, would you be fine with them being around you, let alone work with you? I sure as hell wouldn't. Mental conditions are not an excuse to get people killed.
As for Ro, her whole demeanor in that scene was rather insubordinate. Yes, she was right to point out the naming convention, but she could have simply started with, "Excuse me, sir" or "Pardon me, sir". And Riker, rightfully so I might add, was intolerant of that behavior toward Picard.
And as someone mentioned above, Barclay was a screwup, and he was on report enough times for it to be a problem. The Enterprise's smooth operation is his responsibility, and if people under him are screwing things up, he should be pissed. When I was assistant manager, I expected everyone under me to work as hard as I was. I always helped all my crew who needed a hand, and expected everyone to help others out as needed, too. If I'm busting my ass to get work done, I expect nothing less of those under me. It's a small part of the reason why I went back to working my own section again... in the end, you can only rely on yourself. (The bigger reason is Regional and Store leadership... they never cared for the people under them and I just got tired of having to dance around a subject instead of just being direct.)
And I agree that Riker might be one of the more relatable characters in STAR TREK. O'Brien would probably be the pick as THE most relatable.
A bit off topic, but Ro being insubordinate with Riker is only relevant if she is actually a subordinate. The way I read her presense there is that she may have been put back in a uniform, but she couldn't care less about service in Starfleet, beyond it being better than prison.
If you quote uniform regulations to someone only in a uniform to get out of prison, then you are the textbook definition of an impotent blowhard. It is literally one of his smallest moments, him just puffing up with pointless bravado
If you quote uniform regulations to someone only in a uniform to get out of prison, then you are the textbook definition of an impotent blowhard. It is literally one of his smallest moments, him just puffing up with pointless bravado
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Riker didn't know the specifics of Ro being there until after she came aboard. As far as he knew, she was a transferred officer, and as such should be held to a standard that was set.
Well, he & Picard both knew who she was, & what she'd done, & therefore were likely to know how all that played out, seeing how "Difficult" it was to get her out of prison. He knows she's an inmate they put in a uniform for some mission, & she doesn't bother to act like anything but.
The pettiest part is it's not like he's saying "We" follow uniform regulations on this ship, because he must know what we all know, that Picard's senior staff have 2 members that routinely wear far more flagrantly varied forms of dress while on duty there. He's saying "YOU" will conform to standard uniform regulations here. He's just pushing weight around, is all, & maybe she should expect it, but it's pretty sad on his part imho
Riker didn't want her there. Picard didn't either, at first. Even La Forge said she shouldn't be in the uniform.
Given her past, I can see why Riker may have thrown the book at her when beamed up.
Given her past, I can see why Riker may have thrown the book at her when beamed up.
No disagreement there, but the bigger man would've just let it play out without letting his puckered butthurt get the better of him imho
That was a case of bad writing, but I'm struggling to see how that relates to the episode "Second Chances", but whatever hiccups made then. Riker evolved as a character by season six of the series, was there some signs of bolster with the character? Sometimes but the character's responsibility was to have the crew in check as the Captain could be involve with other matters, like the episode he's put in a situation where he's perceived to be the antagonist and he was. I wouldn't knock Riker for being human and making an inappropriate comment as long as he was corrected... which he was in "Hollow Pursuits", in other episodes Riker has should to be a champion for Barkley and accepted him as a fellow crewmember.
As for Will Riker being replaced by Thomas Riker, it would've been a mistake because the character had such a grounded relationship on the Enterprise and the series was coming to an end. Not sure how productive it would be for the viewer to know Riker was replaced by Thomas who would embody the position of 1st officer. After an episode Thomas would be exposed by the Enterprise senior staff because he was just not as smart as Will, which was seen in "Second Chances" and later established on DS9's "Defiant". I do wonder if the showrunners entertained the idea, would Troi be a culprit to this deceit? It could draw shades to her character and that was not in the vein of Star Trek: The Next Generation.
My original post in this thread was because someone said that Will was a jerk to Tom due to self-esteem issues and I responded that Will was often a jerk to people especially those outside his friends group.
It's interesting...I just looked at the script and there's barely a civil exchange between the two until the episode's end, when Will gives Tom his trombone. Of course meeting up with a doppelgänger of yourself who used to be you until a few years ago is an incredibly a bizarre situation. I don't think any of us could say how we would act, but I'd like to think I'd be somewhat nicer if I ever met my dupe.
It's interesting you say that. I've read the script posted here
https://www.st-minutiae.com/resources/scripts/250.txt
And my take away is that the way it was written isn't nearly as openly antagonistic as Frakes ultimately chose to play Will's behavior toward Tom, specifically when Tom's late for transport. If anything, this script plays Tom as the more aggressively antagonistic, which would seem to make sense from a narrative POV. Will is our routine protagonist. It was kind of a deliberate actor choice to play him less so imho... a rather bold one.
The way the script looks to me, is that Tom is consistently judging Will for how he lived his life, & Will is sort of on the defensive with him, in nearly all the exchanges except the open disregard for Will's order to come back with the initial away team.
Frakes as Will however, has a whole demeanor of disapproval of Tom, like he's recognizing the recklessness & inexperience of his youth, & I don't see that as largely represented in the script. I like what he did. It made it much more dramatic TBH. A different actor could've done that script very differently
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