Seasons of War
- Thread starter Allyn Gibson
- Start date
He was the version of the Doctor that fought in the war, and didn't count himself among his numbered incarnations. The War Doctor fits perfectly, at least for me. One of the plot points of Day of the Doctor was realizing that The War Doctor was always The Doctor, even if for awhile both himself and different incarnations didn't consider himself to be. So, he wasn't a warrior. He was The Doctor, fighting in a war. The War Doctor. That's my thinking on it, at least
"Ah, my ninth body already, doesn't time fly. Well, this time I think I'll leave off the 'ninth' part and just be 'The Doctor'. Maybe I'll pick it up again next time around."?
The Doctor doesn't "number" himself the way fans do. He's either the Doctor or he isn't.
I didn't mean he numbered himself. I just meant that The War Doctor didn't originally think of himself as The Doctor, until near the end as shown in Day of the Doctor. But, its not about what he called himself. There is no way he called himself The Warrior anyway, he probably just didn't refer to himself as anything, while the Timelords kept calling him The Doctor. The point is that we have no evidence he ever called himself Warrior (unless you really want to loosely interpret 8th's line when he was deciding to regenerate), and as we saw in DotD he was really The Doctor all along.
So, that makes him The Doctor who fought in the time war. Since we need to call him something to separate him from every other version in conversation, and the 9th Doctor is already taken, The War Doctor fits very well. If someone in universe was talking to him, he'd just be The Doctor, but if they are mentioning is incarnation specifically it would be The war Doctor, just like his predecessor was the 8th Doctor, but he'd just be referred to as The Doctor in person. At least, that's how I see it.
Except for when he does. From Time of the Doctor: "Number Ten once regenerated and kept the same face."
The Eleventh Doctor did that a bit, but then to some extent so did the Fifth, Second, First and Third to some extent in the Three Doctors and Five Doctors. I don't recall it coming up in the Two Doctors, which has led to some interesting theories around the Troughton Doctor in that story in the last year or two.
True, throughout Smith's run an inordinate amount of attention was called into the fact that he was the Eleventh Doctor. Such as his premiere being titled The Eleventh Hour, the number 11 showing up on his jersey in The Lodger or on his hotel room door in The God Complex, and he even identifies himself to Craig as "the Eleventh" in The Lodger. Not to mention the whole "Fall of the Eleventh" story arc. Which I guess is the primary reason for why the War Doctor doesn't get a numerical title assigned to him, otherwise Smith's entire run has been spent with him going out of his way to establish he's the Eleventh Doctor only to reveal in his penultimate episode he's actually the Twelfth.
Yep. Moffat pointed his chips on the Eleventh Doctor being that very number, and then conviniently forgot about it when he saw that Eccleston would likely not come back for the 50th special. "I didn't call myself the Doctor," he said.
The Warrior: I, am a Warrior. A soldier, just like everyone else is in this wretched War.
War Companion: You don't look like a Warrior, to me.
The Warrior: I wasn't always one.
I think that when the Doctor points out what incarnation he has, it's mostly so he can identify himself to himself. Most of the time when it comes up, it's in reference to other Doctors (Five to One, War, Ten and Eleven together, etc.). Or alternatively when Craig just got head-butted a vision of multiple faces ALL of whom were the Doctor, the natural continuation of the line of thought was met with the Doctor pointing to his face and saying "Eleventh".
If anything, the Doctor keeps some internal track of his faces as much as we would keep track of our age. It's probably a whole lot easier for him to remember that he last knew Sarah Jane Smith a half-dozen regenerations ago, versus however many hundreds of years in his timeline or decades in hers.
For the War Doctor, he abandoned his name-title to become a warrior, and returned to it afterwards, as a WWII vet would go back to being whatever they were beforehand and often did their best to forget that time. It just so happens in this case that it lasted a whole incarnation of the Doctor doing just that.
Mark
If anything, the Doctor keeps some internal track of his faces as much as we would keep track of our age. It's probably a whole lot easier for him to remember that he last knew Sarah Jane Smith a half-dozen regenerations ago, versus however many hundreds of years in his timeline or decades in hers.
For the War Doctor, he abandoned his name-title to become a warrior, and returned to it afterwards, as a WWII vet would go back to being whatever they were beforehand and often did their best to forget that time. It just so happens in this case that it lasted a whole incarnation of the Doctor doing just that.
Mark
The Doctor may lie, but not the narrative.
That only works to a point. For example, the hotel room in The God Complex with 11 on the door was the hotel/minotaur creating that illusion for the Doctor to show him a hidden truth about himself. It's not the Doctor telling a lie to someone else. And then the whole Fall of the Eleventh thing was something the Doctor learned about and concluded privately (and as it turned out, correctly) to be about himself. And indeed, at the time Moffat established it while writing The Wedding of River Song, in his mind this Doctor was still the Eleventh. Hell, for that matter, he told Craig he was the Eleventh after head-butting and showing him images of other Doctors. Now it's true we (the audience) don't see the War Doctor in that scene for obvious reasons, but then we don't see all of the other ten predecessors either. Are we supposed to believe that the existence of the War Doctor was protected from a head-butt mind-meld?
By all rights, the War Doctor should be the Ninth Doctor and everyone after him gets bumped up a number. The only reason we have this whole "wasn't really the Doctor, didn't use the name" thing is just an attempt to salvage the ongoing story arc throughout Smith's run.
^And to protect BBC merchandising, branding etc.
Yes, so Moffat could pretend he planned it all when it's blatantly obvious he did not. And worse, didn't do so in a very consistent and coherent manner.
And that sums up why I basically hate the idea behind the Warrior's creation. He was not created because the storytelling allowed it - all the above are obvious restrictions because by his nature, the Warrior is the real Ninth Doctor, but Moffat's insistence on stunt casting a famous actor for a part in the show's biggest anniversary to date overcame the rules that he imposed in his own creation - the Eleventh Doctor.
The fact that John Hurt sold the part, and that the special itself was so entertaining seem almost like an accident. Day of the Doctor worked, despite the inherent inconsistency of the Warrior's character.
Next thing, we'll have Moffatt re-adjust some things such that they can skip having an "unlucky" Doctor #13 altogether. 
Mark
Mark
Next thing, we'll have Moffatt re-adjust some things such that they can skip having an "unlucky" Doctor #13 altogether.
Mark
Depending on how you look at it, either Smith or Capaldi is incarnation thirteen now... thanks to Moffat's dumbass messing with the regeneration count.
Smith is, basically, the 13th, as the Meta-Crisis is the 12th. I think. Or, if you don't count the Meta-Crisis, the 12th Doctor is basically the 13th Doctor.
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