Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

[senten]

Very enjoyable review. Is it just me, or does this look upscaled? Maybe not upscaled from SD, but definitely not as sharp as the show looks.

http://tng.trekcore.com/bluray/images_s2review/bonus_castreunion_hd.jpg

 

[Maxwell Everett]

The hits (and by that I mean misses, unfortunately) keep on coming.

Notice that in the below screencap from "Up the Long Ladder" (recently uploaded by TrekCore to their Facebook page) all the light elements are misaligned to the left (windows, nacelles, bussards, deflector):

Full Res Here:
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/169262_529578720388253_1269606073_o.jpg

FrontierTrek, hopefully you can tell us if this shot, which is a mirror inverted re-use of the one in "The Schizoid Man" is also affected similarly in that episode.

The problem is, again, that this is an ILM shot (the Enterprise element) that CBS Digital had already correctly composited for Season One. It's now looking like they should have given all of their Enterprise assets to HTV pre-comped to make them impossible to screw up.

Seriously, I'm getting a bit tired of shaking my head at the amateur compositing in some of these shots. I suggested it months ago, but they really need to utilize us as a benevolent resource before they do the final encode and not wait for us to spot these simple and easily correctable errors in the week leading up to release and become unwilling antagonists!

CBS, you're dealing with Star Trek fans, remember? We want this to look and be awesome.

 

[LOKAI of CHERON]

Well, I've significantly lowered my expectations reference this release - in what's probably a forlorn and futile attempt to limit my disappointment.

 

[senten]

In fairness the live action stuff looks great from the shots.

The scene at the start of Elementary, Dear Data when Geordi walks onto the holodeck to Sherlock Holmes' room, he's looking closely at everything, amazed, and exclaims "Look at the detail!!".

I think I'll be the same watching it on Bluray.

 

[NewHorizon]

A problem I am picking up on, and that doesn't seem confined to that ship, is that the Season 2 team weren't able to faithfully render the color of the ships. The Repulse has an odd color, and the Enterprise has an odd color.

In Season 1, the colour pallet of the Enterprise was really brought into fruition, because of the limitations of SD it was lost. The blues and greens on the hull looked excellent.

http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x07/lonelyamongus_hd_288.jpg
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x15/11001001_hd_304.jpg
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x03/nakednow_hd_002.jpg

Unfortunately in a lot of the shots so far from Season 2 the hull and interior lighting appears to have been completely desaturated.

http://tng.trekcore.com/bluray/images_s2review/review8.jpg
http://tng.trekcore.com/bluray/images/cbs_icarussbmontgomery_hd.jpg
http://tng.trekcore.com/bluray/images/thechild_repulse_hd.jpg

I'm not trying to be contrary to anyone for the sake of being contrary, but those three screencaps from season two that you quoted look pretty nice. Actually, the majority of the screencaps from TrekCore's review look really stunning, perhaps not up to the high bar of the first season, but they still look marvelous. I mean, how can one say otherwise?

Not trying to be contrary but yet asking how anyone can say anything contrary to the shots looking marvelous?

It's like this, the majority of the work we've seen from Season 2 has been pretty slapped together looking. The same stock footage used in Season 1 that looked absolutely stunning, suddenly looks only a tad better than it did in SD. Seriously. Season 2 VFX have, for whatever reason, been drained of the amazing color correction of Season 1. The restored footage has been blurred for some mind boggling reason.

How HTV, under the supervision of some of the original production crew, could take many of the same shots and make them look far worse than CBS-Digital did...and in some cases worse than the original compositions(technically speaking here...loss of shadow, contrast, detail, etc), is beyond me.

If Season 1 had looked like Season 2, we would have probably assumed that was the best they could do with the old footage but CBS-Digital showed us just how amazing the footage could really look. HTV did the bare minimum and it really shows.

It will never happen but I hope at the end of this project that CBS-D recalls Season 2 and re-releases it from their own studio.

 

[Tosk]

I've defended a lot about this release, but that is truly pathetic. Is there no one working there to actually check the finished shots before calling them done?

 

[Scotty]

I've defended a lot about this release, but that is truly pathetic. Is there no one working there to actually check the finished shots before calling them done?

This isn't that remarkable. The Enterprise is after all capable of travelling faster than light.

 

[TheSeeker]

I've defended a lot about this release, but that is truly pathetic. Is there no one working there to actually check the finished shots before calling them done?

It seems to me a lot of the shots we have seen might be misaligned, if only slightly. None of the S2 shots of the Enterprise I have seen have lit windows that look as crisp as they do in S1.

 

[Mott the barber]

It seems that there's pretty firm agreement now that the exterior shots by HTV in Season 2 don't match up to the quality that CBS-D put out in Season 1 (and I agree). I think it's in their best interest to address this (somehow) in seasons 4 and 6.

That said, episodes are more than exterior shots; they're - what - 10% of an episode, if that?

Everything else about season 2 seems gravy. All of the interior shots look fantastic, as far as I can tell. Color and resolution looks as good as we can ask for. Let's assume no major audio issues. Plus we get the extended Measure of a Man, gag reel, the cast roundtable, etc, etc.

It sucks that the exterior stuff doesn't match up - it really does. But it's still friggin TNG, a show many of us grew up with, in HD!! The stories, dialogue, characters are all still here, which is why we keep watching it, right??

100% agree. People need to relax a little and look at the bigger picture.

 

[Sho]

^ I normally prefer a glass-half-full perspective as well, but I disagree here because this is a noteworthy regression in quality. We're just not getting the same quality product, for the same price (although the magnificent, and arguably improved extras compensate to a degree; major cheers for the extras team). You know, I'd have paid $200 for S1 if they asked for that, it's not about the amount in the absolute sense - but coming back and asking the same price again for an inferior product is not OK. I'm still going to buy, and of course I'll make the best of it while watching it, but I'm definitely frustrated.

 

[NewHorizon]

^ I normally prefer a glass-half-full perspective as well, but I disagree here because this is a noteworthy regression in quality. We're just not getting the same quality product, for the same price (although the magnificent, and arguably improved extras compensate to a degree; major cheers for the extras team). You know, I'd have paid $200 for S1 if they asked for that, it's not about the amount in the absolute sense - but coming back and asking the same price again for an inferior product is not OK. I'm still going to buy, and of course I'll make the best of it while watching it, but I'm definitely frustrated.

I agree. The sloppiness we're seeing here is not cool

 

[jimbotron]

Wow, that shot is embarrassing. Incompetent, even.

When doing the replacement program for season 1, CBS threw in a new disc 5 just to replace a missing phaser shot, so there is every reason for them to reissue the disc with the corrected effect.

CBS is now 0 for 2 in their releases. They made it right with season 1. Will they do it again with season 2? I doubt it.

 

[NewHorizon]

CBS is now 0 for 2 in their releases. They made it right with season 1. Will they do it again with season 2? I doubt it.

Well, HTV did the effects for Season 2. It's pretty clear CBS (parent company) made a huge mistake rushing the releases and farming out the Season to HTV.

They need to let CBS-Digital have the time they need to work on the remaining Seasons on their own. No more hatchet jobs from HTV.

 

[jimbotron]

Weren't the audio errors caused by outsourcing the authoring of the Blu-rays? I think I heard that the sampler was authored in-house, hence why EaF was correct on the sampler, and messed up on the season disc. I don't think CBS ever officially stated what the cause was (and what they would do to prevent it in the future).

If so, then CBS has definitely not learned their lesson trusting outside companies to take care of their products.

 

[LOKAI of CHERON]

They need to let CBS-Digital have the time they need to work on the remaining Seasons on their own. No more hatchet jobs from HTV.

Yes, just slow down. I'm more than happy to wait if it means maintaining the quality of these releases - and I'm fairly certain the majority of fans would agree. CBS, the fans - and their wallets - will still be there if you take a little longer.

 

[jimbotron]

What I don't understand is, if time constraints were such an issue, why not reuse all the applicable work that CBS-D did? Isn't that how it was done originally? Did they really redo every effects pass on stock footage each episode? Blur it up, add Curry's touch to it, whatever. It would have saved weeks of work simply porting over all the ILM work which was the majority of shots of the Enterprise, leaving time for much-needed QC. They practically started from scratch on everything. So instead of using superior effects, they waste weeks on inferior effects. It doesn't add up.

I'm relieved to learn (from TrekCore) that the opening credits were ported straight from season 1. Based on what I've seen, I would expected HTV to redo those too, but gladly that is not the case.

 

[Dream]

They need to let CBS-Digital have the time they need to work on the remaining Seasons on their own. No more hatchet jobs from HTV.

Yes, just slow down.

Maybe CBS is afraid that sales will sufferly if they release these sets yearly?

 

[Scotty]

Weren't the audio errors caused by outsourcing the authoring of the Blu-rays? I think I heard that the sampler was authored in-house, hence why EaF was correct on the sampler, and messed up on the season disc. I don't think CBS ever officially stated what the cause was (and what they would do to prevent it in the future).

If so, then CBS has definitely not learned their lesson trusting outside companies to take care of their products.

Unfortunately, it was the other way around. The sampler was authored by another company and the first season was authored inhouse.

 

[trekker670]

Weren't the audio errors caused by outsourcing the authoring of the Blu-rays? I think I heard that the sampler was authored in-house, hence why EaF was correct on the sampler, and messed up on the season disc. I don't think CBS ever officially stated what the cause was (and what they would do to prevent it in the future).

If so, then CBS has definitely not learned their lesson trusting outside companies to take care of their products.

I believe it was actually the opposite in this case: CBS authored season 1, instead of outsourcing it to a company that specialized in the authoring like they did the sampler. I believe a member here and/or in the bluray.com forums worked for the company that authored the sampler and he pointed out some aspects that CBS should have done better in authoring (to improve quality and such) S1 that would have been done if an experienced company did it.

 

[jimbotron]

Well, there goes that theory...

So season 1 was messed up because they didn't outsource it to experts, and season 2 was messed up because they outsourced it to non-experts. Sigh.